rufus

The strangest part is the suggestion of wanting 2 of the 3 gone. Well are they good at their role or not? If not, why want any of the 3 to stay? Doesn't add up to me.

Will be an interesting watch. Hawthorn historically find a way rather than look for an excuse. We'll see I guess.

Spot on. And the strength of our position does not change next year, the year after or the year after that. Free agency was brought in so that at the END of a contract and after an extended period of service a player can choose where they want to play. At the end of a contract prior to extended service, the club chooses where the player plays, or if the player dislikes their club so much they can go to the draft and get out to a (likely) bottom team. When under contract, the club chooses where the player plays. Full stop. With the system working like this, all parties get their time when they have the power. Players should plan their contracts around this and clubs will be managing the contracts of their entire list around this being the way it will work.

Add that game the many thousands of VFL/AFL games before where a team makes a match out of it purely by playing with high intensity. Hawks have a history of over achieving and it's because there are no excuses...just go hell for leather when you're on the big stage. Bog ordinary team representing a club with a culture of competing. People bemoan why no one wants to watch us play...it has less to do with the game style and more to do with the fact that we just don't compete as hard as these successful clubs. It showed up time and time again (including finals).That's what people want to watch. It's not up to the president. It's not up to the CEO. It's not up to the fitness guy and that part shouldn't come down to the coach. It's the players.

Oliver the best Demon player I've seen in my lifetime (just ahead of Gawn). It seems he may have turned a corner off field and it sounds like he's determined to get back to where he was on the field (which is as good as anyone in the country). I'd like to think the mail was slightly misconstrued and we shut it down immediately. If he's committed to getting himself and the team back to where we were 3 years ago then I want him to be a Demon for life. There's no offer that could match what he brings at his best and we should show loyalty based on his commitment to drive us forward.

Not sure where you're getting your info from, but if what you are saying is fact then it would put a whole different light on everything. If all that happened behind the scenes was that he demanded that the club get better, while remaining committed to helping drive that betterment then he is nothing other than a hero from my perspective. Someone needs to demand it. Where did all the other junk that was being spoken come from then?

I remember Scott Pendlebury saying something along the lines of how AFL football is a much simpler game than many seem to think. He said at Collingwood they see it mostly as an 'effort' sport. The Hawks just seemed to do everything at a higher intensity than the Dogs last night. It's hard to believe that could happen in a final, but it just seems to keep happening. Hawks have a history of finding ways to win...starting with high effort like that. You can honestly play any style you like and if you do it with that intensity you'll hit the scoreboard...and if you do it with the Dogs' intensity of last night you'll struggle to create chances to score. Maybe it's the coaches who are responsible for getting the players to go at the required level, but I put it on the players. This is the same area in which we've been let down too many times over the last few years. Hopefully our players come back next year with a hunger to compete at that higher intensity level...if they do everything will look completely different for us.

The best case scenario is that Petracca buys back into the club and: - doesn't hold himself out from playing when ready next year to preserve himself for a new club in 2026. This may also play to lower his perceived value on the trade market. - provides the leadership we need, whether he's actually able to play or not, to try and drive the professionalism of the playing group to the standards we all want. Worst case scenario is that we get pushed at the end of next year to accept lowball offers based on what plays out during the season. If other clubs want him 2026 it should be very clear that with 4 years still to run on the contract, you're going to need to come to us with something very appealing. The club should hold very firm on this.

Ouch. Not really sure why the club want to retain him if that is true. Doesn't sound like someone who made this noise to try and better the club. I would hope that behind closed doors we try pretty hard to convince him to give the Gold Coast or North Melbourne a shot if he hates Melbourne so much...or maybe even see if he'd void his contract and we let him go as a free agent. Take pick 6 and see if we can draft a character who'll keep 2 feet in the door from start to finish.

The media guys are going beautifully with this one aren't they. TM: If he could have got out he would have (ipso facto he simply can't stand the idea of being at Melbourne anymore). It seems likely that he could have gotten out...it just would have had to be to a club that might have had a smaller profile...one where perhaps he wouldn't be playing under the brightest of lights each week? I wonder if that would have impacted his brand? I guess not hey. It's much more likely Melb leadership got together and thought 'how about we make up some stuff about him being conerned about his brand to make him look bad'. Yep that sounds more like it. Just like in many other forums around the world these days, the problem isn't so much bottom feeders like the AFL media, it's the fact that enough people believe what they hear enough to follow along. And it's not that I don't believe we're a bit of a mess right now as a club...it's just that I'd much prefer to hear the facts of what's going on than supposition from people who just possibly aren't historically all that trustworthy.

There were at least 6 sentences of incomprehensible jibberish in his piece in that clip. I have no idea how he, along with many others in the 'media', have roles presenting information when they cannot get a point across coherently. I am completely unclear whether he thinks this is Petracca's fault or Melbourne's fault. He is not Robinson Crusoe in that regard as there have been many others over the last few weeks who have flip flopped their narrative based off nothing more than rumours about what's been said to various people. Not for the first time in this whole sorry saga, Max summed it up best when he wondered whether journalists were actually supposed to deal in facts?

Agree regarding Smith. Someone please convince him. I don't feel like the current leadership has understood the depths that this club has been to. One flag was a gift to leadership to help accelerate us on the path to respect and relevance. It feels like everyone thought the job was done and this pervaded all the way down to the playing group. As a club we are sitting right back where we were prior to 2021, which is completely unforgivable. Agree with everyone who has said they are sick to their guts of all the self congratulatory rubbish about the great culture that they've built. The evidence just doesn't stack up.

I agree that Max should get the choice of what he wants...if he happens to think giving it up might prolong his playing career then that should be factored in. One of our all time greats in multiple facets. I also don't mind the call out for Rivers down the track. He consistently plays with the kind of effort and intensity that we need other players to be dragged along to. Will he be yet another interstate player that can't do their 10 to 15 years away from their state of origin though? He seems like a stronger character than that to me.

Agree it's been hard to watch our style over the last few years, but those wanting Goodwin to change to a more attacking style without player personnel changes are going to be very disappointed with the result. Yeah we might score more, but we are going to get routinely smashed. Our style has been matched to our playing group. We are slow and we do not have many good true contest winners. We've lost 2 of them in Hibberd and Brayshaw, and now probably have Gawn, May and Oliver (at his best) who can win those contests that genuinely decide scoring opportunities (McVee and Rivers show signs of being able to out point opponents when they get exposed in contests where they don'thave numbers to help them out). Freo, like Collingwood, have smacked us by exposing our weakness in aerial contest by moving the ball through areas where we don't have numbers advantages. If we want to go more attacking with this playing group, they are going to need to bust their butts applying pressure and creating turnovers around the contest, and getting back to help our defence after we turn the ball over (and we're going to need to acquire some better contest winners). We have fallen so far off in the pressure department that it's just really hard to see this happening.

Again no idea the full extent of what has played out here. We'll probably never know the full story and nor should we. Although there has probably been damage done to the club along the way, IF it's true that part of the frustration has been a lack of professionalism from the playing group, then we should all be thankful 1000 times over that it's been laid bare. We should also wonder how the hell it was ever allowed to happen (again). It's looked obvious from the stands that the desperation to compete and dominate just hasn't felt like priority number one over the last few years. This club needs to change full stop. Regardless of what's going on off the field, it's what gets done on the field by the players that defines the club. I hope Petracca, and everyone else in the privileged position of wearing the jumper, are determined to be the ones who really drive the change that we are crying out for. The coach has been critical in all of the teams that have had dominant periods over the last 15 years (Hawks, Cats, Tigers), but it was the players that committed to excellence that really drove the success.

Using high draft picks on interstate kids is just the dumbest of the dumb. The big Melb clubs may be able to do it...but with the weaker clubs like ours, we just can't hold onto these guys. The delusions of grandeur seem to spread all the way from fans through to our list management team. There's enough talent in Vic to focus high end drafting here. Looking for role players at later picks from interstate is OK as they are less likely to be stars who can call the shots.

Gee if it came to this and his 'camp' got what they wanted it would set a very dodgy precedent. Pretty much any painful knock would require the club to withdraw the player from the match immediately. However, if it did come to this and they succeed, I guess that means he'd be allowed to terminate his contract with us? Which would make him a free agent, and therefore we would get pick 6 as free agent compensation. At least that is better than nothing. In fact, if the whole thing just becomes untenable and it looks like we might accept scraps from another club, maybe we'd be better agreeing to void the contract and take the free agency compo instead. Then he can go find a club that's prepared to pay him what he wants.

Unfortunately the poop show that has unfolded over the last few weeks gives us zero chance of convincing any best 22 players to join us. I reckon it will also complicate the Petracca trade because no one will agree to leave their club to join us. From what I've heard, the misplaced arrogance of our playing group over the last few years might not have helped endear our club to outside players either. This is a high priority to correct if it is a reality.

Yep. I actually agree with premise that we should be looking at youth right now...but picks like 11 this year and next year just won't cut it. Nor would scraps like Cerra or McKay. Carlton and Collingwood just don't have the assets to make an acceptable deal. So, we stand firm and find the best deal for us. If he is unhappy enough that he's willing to break a significant contract, one that has implications for our club beyond this player himself, then we should assume he'd be happier pretty much anywhere else. So, highest bidder it is.

Goodwin is one of the few people in my entire lifetime supporting this club that I have had faith in to drive a relentlesly competitive culture. He has been involved in winning throughout his career and he seems to be a determined competitor. Sure there are still things he needs to improve but we would be a lot worse off without him in my opinion.

I wonder if his unhappiness started with the rumoured spray he copped from the coaches after fumbling the Carlton final last year? He probably didn't enjoy that too much...

We don't need the play the victim here though do we. We can hold firm on what we get and come out of this one on top. Then we can hope our new playing group are united and feel a burn in their bellies that makes them want to crush teams like the Pies the way most fans seem to. Let's face it, it's been obvious to many people over the last 3 years that our group just didn't seem to have the fire that was needed to get it done when under real pressure. Who knows, maybe this might just help us.

Not sure whether this mess is on the club or the player really. I have my gut feel but it's not really relevant. Either way, the club can fix this and we can come out massive winners. I just hope we hold firm and demand a king's ransom. If he wants to go so bad then he needs to convince a club that it is worth their while to pay a very high price for him. If what we're hearing is true, many of the concerns he has were well known to him when he signed his contract (e.g. crowds and Casey). I would not be opposed to sending him to Gold Coast if it got us the best deal...no way we should send him to a Vic team unless the trade improves us more than them.

In fairness to you it was very easy to look away from the game on Friday night!

Very hard to know what the hell is going on with this one. One of the oddest situations in recent memory and one that seems to be damaging both the club and the player as it continues. So many reports contradict themselves (e.g. giving the club a kick up the butt to improve while simultaneously fostering a situation that makes it very hard for the club to sell itself to people who might be able to help it do that). No idea what's gone on behind close doors. If there has been pressure applied to the club that we must get better then I'm all for that. Our 3 years since the flag have delivered so much less than they could have. But if it's more of a 'you must get better' to the club then I would feel it lacks self awareness and somewhat shirks the responsibility of the club's highest paid player to both deliver when under immense pressure and to drive the standards that ultimately turn the club into what we all want it to be. If it's simply a 'you must get better' then I'd love the club's response to be that we get the best value for him and move on. I would also not expect the club to make this public at all as it would simply hurt the negotiating position which is currently very strong.