rufus

Unfortunately I think you are right here. I personally would refer it not be Oliver as at his best I think he is a top 3 player in the league. Would prefer he gets back to the shape he was in on GF day 2021 (considerably different to this season). I also think the idea of paying some of someone's salary must be some kind of joke. Why would we want to pay him to work his way back to his best somewhere else? We should be committing to helping him get back to his best with us. I'd be much more amenable to trying to convince Petracca to go to a club that has some decent currency as I think at their best Oliver is in a completely different class. That is assuming what has been reported about Petracca being desperate to get out is true.

I would be quite happy if our players wanted his blood...or wanted 'revenge' against Collingwood or even just wanted to physically smash Collingwood in a match just because they're an opponent who always make us look weak. But our players don't ever seem too fussed about it so no point in us getting riled up.

Swans bigfooty has a sack Horse thread running. How much responsibility should the coach take for the players not having their intensity up at the level of the oppo? For me, it's the players. These guys are way off and if they were competing as hard as the Bris guys then you could start questioning the tactics if they're still getting done...the players have been so poor here. Who on the field is willing these guys to turn the tide?

Swans getting exposed by pressure. If you want an AFL match to be decided by talent you need to at least match the pressure levels. Lions may have more talent, but this one's being decided by pressure. Unforgivable by Syndey for the 2nd time in 3 years.

No offense taken. Just my opinion. If you honestly think that year in year out, week in week out, when the MFC take the field they appear as desperate to win as the Pies generally do then that's great. You likely enjoy watching us play much more than I do. I also reckon if you surveyed other neutral supporters they'd probably agree that in general MFC players are a tad soft and we're a club that prefers to find and excuse than to find a way.. while Collingwood are not.

Feel for Brayshaw and obviously it's been a loss for us not having him. But the obsession with Maynard and Collingwood is in my opinion the cringiest thing imaginable. To me, if the incident was actually the thuggish act that Melb supporters seem to feel it was, then it was only marginally that. Brayshaw obviously had a rough history with head knocks and was in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Collingwood may injure more people but reality is they play the game harder than we do. It's one thing for our fans to be outraged and breathing fire at the prospect of responding to the Pies, but when our players come out with relatively meek physicality every time they match up you start to realise our players mustn't feel as strongly about it as the fans do. If we want to focus any attention on Collingwood or Maynard, it should be to study how they are able to compete harder than our players for longer than our players.

I don't know. Pendlebury has been at Coll for multiple windows (2009-2011 was probably a pretty talented group, their 2018 and 2023 groups were just bog ordinary competitors). Selwood multiple windows. Even if you think it's too much of an advantage, from an MFC perspective we just needed to maximise the window with what might have been the best group of talent we will have for a long time. Maybe a flag was maximising it? I don't think we did and it was because our big guns weren't good enough against the best opposition, and across the board we couldn't go as hard for as long as any of the top end teams. Culture might be over rated, but I respect sporting teams that find a way rather than teams that find an excuse.

I don't believe it is related to the academy. They have built a culture of relentless competitiveness. Have not seen a contest or a chase they haven’t committed to. Have seen Port, similar to last week, just not quite go hard enough when they've needed to. That is the difference between the Syd, Haw, Coll cultures and that of Port and us (amongst others).

Hopefully nothing. The last thing this club needs right now is to move away from Goodwin IMO.

The strangest part is the suggestion of wanting 2 of the 3 gone. Well are they good at their role or not? If not, why want any of the 3 to stay? Doesn't add up to me.

Will be an interesting watch. Hawthorn historically find a way rather than look for an excuse. We'll see I guess.

Spot on. And the strength of our position does not change next year, the year after or the year after that. Free agency was brought in so that at the END of a contract and after an extended period of service a player can choose where they want to play. At the end of a contract prior to extended service, the club chooses where the player plays, or if the player dislikes their club so much they can go to the draft and get out to a (likely) bottom team. When under contract, the club chooses where the player plays. Full stop. With the system working like this, all parties get their time when they have the power. Players should plan their contracts around this and clubs will be managing the contracts of their entire list around this being the way it will work.

Add that game the many thousands of VFL/AFL games before where a team makes a match out of it purely by playing with high intensity. Hawks have a history of over achieving and it's because there are no excuses...just go hell for leather when you're on the big stage. Bog ordinary team representing a club with a culture of competing. People bemoan why no one wants to watch us play...it has less to do with the game style and more to do with the fact that we just don't compete as hard as these successful clubs. It showed up time and time again (including finals).That's what people want to watch. It's not up to the president. It's not up to the CEO. It's not up to the fitness guy and that part shouldn't come down to the coach. It's the players.

Oliver the best Demon player I've seen in my lifetime (just ahead of Gawn). It seems he may have turned a corner off field and it sounds like he's determined to get back to where he was on the field (which is as good as anyone in the country). I'd like to think the mail was slightly misconstrued and we shut it down immediately. If he's committed to getting himself and the team back to where we were 3 years ago then I want him to be a Demon for life. There's no offer that could match what he brings at his best and we should show loyalty based on his commitment to drive us forward.

Not sure where you're getting your info from, but if what you are saying is fact then it would put a whole different light on everything. If all that happened behind the scenes was that he demanded that the club get better, while remaining committed to helping drive that betterment then he is nothing other than a hero from my perspective. Someone needs to demand it. Where did all the other junk that was being spoken come from then?

I remember Scott Pendlebury saying something along the lines of how AFL football is a much simpler game than many seem to think. He said at Collingwood they see it mostly as an 'effort' sport. The Hawks just seemed to do everything at a higher intensity than the Dogs last night. It's hard to believe that could happen in a final, but it just seems to keep happening. Hawks have a history of finding ways to win...starting with high effort like that. You can honestly play any style you like and if you do it with that intensity you'll hit the scoreboard...and if you do it with the Dogs' intensity of last night you'll struggle to create chances to score. Maybe it's the coaches who are responsible for getting the players to go at the required level, but I put it on the players. This is the same area in which we've been let down too many times over the last few years. Hopefully our players come back next year with a hunger to compete at that higher intensity level...if they do everything will look completely different for us.

The best case scenario is that Petracca buys back into the club and: - doesn't hold himself out from playing when ready next year to preserve himself for a new club in 2026. This may also play to lower his perceived value on the trade market. - provides the leadership we need, whether he's actually able to play or not, to try and drive the professionalism of the playing group to the standards we all want. Worst case scenario is that we get pushed at the end of next year to accept lowball offers based on what plays out during the season. If other clubs want him 2026 it should be very clear that with 4 years still to run on the contract, you're going to need to come to us with something very appealing. The club should hold very firm on this.

Ouch. Not really sure why the club want to retain him if that is true. Doesn't sound like someone who made this noise to try and better the club. I would hope that behind closed doors we try pretty hard to convince him to give the Gold Coast or North Melbourne a shot if he hates Melbourne so much...or maybe even see if he'd void his contract and we let him go as a free agent. Take pick 6 and see if we can draft a character who'll keep 2 feet in the door from start to finish.

The media guys are going beautifully with this one aren't they. TM: If he could have got out he would have (ipso facto he simply can't stand the idea of being at Melbourne anymore). It seems likely that he could have gotten out...it just would have had to be to a club that might have had a smaller profile...one where perhaps he wouldn't be playing under the brightest of lights each week? I wonder if that would have impacted his brand? I guess not hey. It's much more likely Melb leadership got together and thought 'how about we make up some stuff about him being conerned about his brand to make him look bad'. Yep that sounds more like it. Just like in many other forums around the world these days, the problem isn't so much bottom feeders like the AFL media, it's the fact that enough people believe what they hear enough to follow along. And it's not that I don't believe we're a bit of a mess right now as a club...it's just that I'd much prefer to hear the facts of what's going on than supposition from people who just possibly aren't historically all that trustworthy.

There were at least 6 sentences of incomprehensible jibberish in his piece in that clip. I have no idea how he, along with many others in the 'media', have roles presenting information when they cannot get a point across coherently. I am completely unclear whether he thinks this is Petracca's fault or Melbourne's fault. He is not Robinson Crusoe in that regard as there have been many others over the last few weeks who have flip flopped their narrative based off nothing more than rumours about what's been said to various people. Not for the first time in this whole sorry saga, Max summed it up best when he wondered whether journalists were actually supposed to deal in facts?

Agree regarding Smith. Someone please convince him. I don't feel like the current leadership has understood the depths that this club has been to. One flag was a gift to leadership to help accelerate us on the path to respect and relevance. It feels like everyone thought the job was done and this pervaded all the way down to the playing group. As a club we are sitting right back where we were prior to 2021, which is completely unforgivable. Agree with everyone who has said they are sick to their guts of all the self congratulatory rubbish about the great culture that they've built. The evidence just doesn't stack up.

I agree that Max should get the choice of what he wants...if he happens to think giving it up might prolong his playing career then that should be factored in. One of our all time greats in multiple facets. I also don't mind the call out for Rivers down the track. He consistently plays with the kind of effort and intensity that we need other players to be dragged along to. Will he be yet another interstate player that can't do their 10 to 15 years away from their state of origin though? He seems like a stronger character than that to me.

Agree it's been hard to watch our style over the last few years, but those wanting Goodwin to change to a more attacking style without player personnel changes are going to be very disappointed with the result. Yeah we might score more, but we are going to get routinely smashed. Our style has been matched to our playing group. We are slow and we do not have many good true contest winners. We've lost 2 of them in Hibberd and Brayshaw, and now probably have Gawn, May and Oliver (at his best) who can win those contests that genuinely decide scoring opportunities (McVee and Rivers show signs of being able to out point opponents when they get exposed in contests where they don'thave numbers to help them out). Freo, like Collingwood, have smacked us by exposing our weakness in aerial contest by moving the ball through areas where we don't have numbers advantages. If we want to go more attacking with this playing group, they are going to need to bust their butts applying pressure and creating turnovers around the contest, and getting back to help our defence after we turn the ball over (and we're going to need to acquire some better contest winners). We have fallen so far off in the pressure department that it's just really hard to see this happening.

Again no idea the full extent of what has played out here. We'll probably never know the full story and nor should we. Although there has probably been damage done to the club along the way, IF it's true that part of the frustration has been a lack of professionalism from the playing group, then we should all be thankful 1000 times over that it's been laid bare. We should also wonder how the hell it was ever allowed to happen (again). It's looked obvious from the stands that the desperation to compete and dominate just hasn't felt like priority number one over the last few years. This club needs to change full stop. Regardless of what's going on off the field, it's what gets done on the field by the players that defines the club. I hope Petracca, and everyone else in the privileged position of wearing the jumper, are determined to be the ones who really drive the change that we are crying out for. The coach has been critical in all of the teams that have had dominant periods over the last 15 years (Hawks, Cats, Tigers), but it was the players that committed to excellence that really drove the success.

Using high draft picks on interstate kids is just the dumbest of the dumb. The big Melb clubs may be able to do it...but with the weaker clubs like ours, we just can't hold onto these guys. The delusions of grandeur seem to spread all the way from fans through to our list management team. There's enough talent in Vic to focus high end drafting here. Looking for role players at later picks from interstate is OK as they are less likely to be stars who can call the shots.