Macca

Yeah good tune isn't it H_T - it's grown on me after 6 or 8 listens - Nothin wrong with a bit of "Pop Rock" ! Frozen planet looks good btw - will have a look .

Who knows and you may be right but ....... I remember that series well and don't remember feeling very confident about the Team going forward - if you remember there was a lot of doom and gloom about . 1989 changed all that and still goes dowm as one of my most enjoyable series . 1989 Team btw was dubbed "One of the worst ever" by the English media ! ( prior to the series of course ) As an aside , why aren't the Vics playing Alex Keath in the Shield Team - gotta give the kid a chance . NSW are constantly ahead of the Vics in this area and it somewhat explains why so many of them play Test cricket .

Yes we've blooded a few but my point was that the current 11 is very similar to the one thrashed by England . It seems they started to bite the bullet then revisited again . Not sure about the "learn from it" bit either . You throw in the 40% bit as if that's how much the side has changed since the Ashes - The current side is only about 20% different and Lyon for Beer is hardly ground breaking - and they've replaced a new player ( Khawaja ) ( who played in the last Ashes Test ) for Marsh . So I'd argue that it's much the same side - almost identical !. Khawaja should never have been dropped and Haddin should have been moved on a fair while ago . Ponting is a tricky one as he is a "Great" As for the Bowlers - only Harris can hold his head up The reality is that we should have been slowly but surely blooding new players way before last years Ashes series . Not a hindsight comment either as I've been saying this for years - youll have to trust me on that one ! Anyway , we're just about on the same page in most area's here . Nuggets

First of all - I liked your post and though I don't agree with all of it , I did like your appraisal of our future talent . You have to blood young players to rebuild - we did this in 86/87 - see my post ( 23 ) in this thread . They didn't all debut in that series but it was a young team . We've got nothing to lose Bob because we're losing now . We've lost the last 2 ashes series , the last 2 series in India ( and we were lucky to win the last series against India here ) as well as losing the last Series against South Africa in Australia - We did beat South Africa over there last time but overall it's not good ( in the last few years ). The aforementioned Test Nations are 1,2,3 in the World as you no doubt will know . Btw - the Aussie side has given us a great run for our money since '89 so we should be able to handle a bit of pain but we need to look to the future . We play India in 6 weeks and I'm not confident at all . And we go to England in 2013 for the Ashes - this current side would get beaten again . I'm not advocating mass changes either - though on current overall form only Clarke , Watson , Harris , Hussey and Marsh can hold their heads up high . Whilst Lyon and Beer are just new to Test cricket . Edit - latest news has Warner being flown to South Africa to replace Marsh . So you'd reckon either Khawaja and/or Warner will play the next Test .( And Cummins ) P.S - Bring back Warnie !

Macca 2.1

The Team that lost this Test to the South Africans is largely the same Team that got towelled up by England Marsh is in for Smith / North and Lyon is in for Beer / Doherty Time for some youth - it's almost like the selectors are too frightened to rebuild . They need to bite the bullet - now .

Thanks MFC - I had no idea - might try it in the morning as there isn't an 8.15 am game on foxtel - fingers crossed it's "all good" Cheers .

Don't doubt that for a second Satan . Neeld has already talked about contested football and the importance of it . A bit of 1 on 2 in any park with a reasonable surface will help players lift in this area .

Macca 2.0

Was thinking about the conference / division thing the other day . Can't ever seeing it happening "cos it's too American" but it might add a bit of interest . We do have a real issue in the last part of the AFL season with "dead" games and teams already preparing for the next season . Having a lottery system for the draft may help keep Teams stay competitive for longer . Though I don't like the idea of a "Final 10" it wouldn't surprise me if the AFL brought it in . As for conferences and divisions you could have a North East , a South West and 2 South East divisions but it will most probably never happen Dappa and I'm not a big fan of it to be in the AFL - though I really like how the Americans do it . . If the AFL change anything it may be to implement the "Final 10" As for College football - it is as you said "hard to keep up with". I tend to just watch the last qtr of some games ( there's 5 of them on Sundays - ESPN and ESPN 2 ) Most of these televised games are "good team" match-ups .Oregon (7) are at Stanford (4) on ESPN at noon Sunday ( our time ) A chance to see Andrew Luck .

The Charger's are making it hard for themselves now hey ? They've got a fairly tough home stretch . Game of the round I reckon is The Giants at San Francisco - huge impact on the Eagles and Dallas . The 49ers can set up the rest of their season with a win . Chicago v Detroit is another beauty . Ditto N.E @ the Jets , Atlanta v The Saints and Houston @ Tampa . Denver @ KC is a huge one for KC now . Another great round of games . I know this will never change because of tradition and the Americans love of College Football but I'd like to see games stretched out from Thursday night football right through to MNF( from the 1st round of the season ) I've only just started watching College but I can see myself getting hooked on it !

That last post of mine should have read Jags @ Indi If Indi lose this week and Miami win then Luck goes to Indi I reckon . After this weekend they've got ( in order ) v Carolina @ New England @ Baltimore v Tennessee v Houston @ Jacksonville

Macca 1.9

Whilst I don't agree with all your views on the said players it was a good summation none the less . Katich won't play again so everybody needs to move on with him . Players in any sport can get better when they go up a level - Warne is your classic example . We used to pick players when they were younger - the good thing about this way of doing it is if you drop them you can always bring them back later on . So if Hughes gets dropped it's not the end - North gets dropped and that's probably it for him . If you get a chance have look at the age of the Australian players in the summer of 86' / 87' when we played England here for the Ashes - it's quite an eye opener and Greg Chappell was a selector ! In fact here are 11 players who played during that series and their age at the time . McDermott 21 S Waugh 21 Reid 23 Boon 25 Jones 25 Zoehrer 25 Hughes 25 Matthews 27 - made his debut at 24 Marsh 28 - like his son , he got picked late at 27 Lawson 29 - 23 ( debut ) Border 31 - 23 ( debut ) A few household names there you'd have to agree sd ? Oh , and btw , what's wrong with the fact that Cosgrove made the most runs last year in Shield cricket ? There's been quite a few big boys play lots of Test Cricket .

Tips - winners in bold type Eagles v Arizona Carolina v Tennessee Houston @ Tampa Miami v Washington Jags v Indi KC v Denver Dallas v Buffalo Atlanta v New Orleans St Louis @ Cleveland Pittsburgh @ Cincinnati Baltimore @ Seattle 49ers v N Y Giants Chicago v Detroit N Y Jets v New England Packers v Minnesota Virtually the same as DemonDave except for the Rams game Good luck with your bet btw Demon ! You left out the Packers game but we can assume you're not picking the Vikes at Lambeau yeah ! Reckon I could get 5 or 6 wrong here cos N.E , Lions , Giants , Saints and the Bucs can all win , Foxtel 5am game is New Orleans @ Atlanta , there is no 8.15am game - grrrrrr SNF is the Pats at the Jets and MNF is Green Bay vs Minnesota . Once again ONEhd are replaying 2 games from 11.30 Monday night - Pittsburgh @ Cincinnati followed by Detroit @ Chicago .

Yeah good points bing , re Clark .Though it does sound like we're coming from a fair way back - You can catch up quick with the right attitude. As for facilities , I'm reminded of that Glenn Archer comment " A 20kg dumbbell weighs the same at Arden st as it does at the (then) Lexus centre" And if you saw that Robbie Flower interview with Mike Sheahan earlier this year he talked about how pitiful the facilities were at the Junction oval at the start of the Northey era - lots of Finals in those years from memory .

Cummins , Starc , Pattinson , Keith , Khawaja , Ferguson , Mitchell Marsh , Wade , Paine , Warner , Butterworth and lots more - If you know anything about Shield cricket you will know a bit about these players . They just need opportunity - do you know much about the above players sd ? Edit - Finch and Christian are a couple of other young blokes worth considering . Warner was called up to the Sri Lankan Test tour when Ponting came home for the birth of his child - and he made 148 in 4 hours in his last shield game for NSW - he's not just a slogger .

And apart from Neeld , it's Misson and Craig as well that should get us firing on all cylinders at the start of the season . 3 big additions . Thought it was interesting that Mark Neeld mentioned that Clark trains very hard - very telling considering he comes from lowly Brisbane . What's starting to stand out is how far behind we were in the last few years - a shambles really and no excuses .

Agreed , yesterday was woeful but change will happen I tend to think that a few of the players were on their last chance in Sri Lanka and South Africa To me it's more about injecting good young players into the team rather than administration issues . We need to rebuild with youth - the Shield system is still first rate and there's plenty of good young talent around .

3 more years ? The time for winning is always right now - regardless of development or talent - attitude is everything in sport - I've seen plenty of average teams play finals - it may take a little while for Neeld game plan to get through to the players but why not round 1 hey .

Rubbish - you never ever barrack against your own Country - it's Un Australian !

So you want your Country to lose ! Will you want the Demons to lose if we start winning again ? Your comment must be tongue in cheek yeah ? Otherwise one of the most astonishing posts I have ever read .

Well I'm just in a bit of shock really - trying to make sense of an 8 wicket loss from a commanding position . I suppose if we win next weeks Test it may soften the blow but the team would have to be in shock as well . Huge task for Clarke to get the team up next week . If we lose again there should be reprisals . As it is they will possibly find room for Cummins ( for Siddle ? Johnson ? ) and Khawaja ( prob won't happen but should )

More wickets than a 20/20 today ! 12/60 this session ! EDIT - We are now 9 / 21 The most bizarre 3 hours of Test cricket I've ever seen .

South Africa 96 Pup 151