Macca

Couldn't agree more 'dpositive'. When I had a few moments last week I matched up all the AFL teams jumpers with ours (side by side) and there's really only once or twice where the clash of jumpers is a real issue. 1) Against Carlton, the Eagles, Port and Freo we could have a bit more red (a bigger V) 2) Against the Lions, Dogs and Crows we could have a bit less red. 3) I don't believe we clash with St Kilda at all. 4) Essendon might be an issue and that's where a clever design could be done. 5) The rest, no issues. 6) In many ways, to avoid a clash of jumpers, the answer could be a quite a simple one - increase or decrease the depth of the red 'V' on our existing traditional jumper ... and it may not have to be a substantial adjustment. Further to the above, if we're the home team against any of aforementioned teams, it's should be up to those teams to change their jumper. Lets be straight here, the white jumper is not "exactly" a clash jumper, it's more of an away jumper. Apart from all that, as a marketing ploy, it hasn't worked.

Read my next post in reply to 'dpositive' if you believe I'm being fanciful.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. Go away and bother someone else - and learn how to talk to people in a civil manner.

You're assuming that the AFL won't or can't change their mind on the issue. Are you that gullible that you don't question anything? Nothing is gospel with regards to any decision the AFL might make - it's astonishing that people like you don't realise that. A bit of advice - don't believe everything you're told in life. Every Demon fan I know hates the white jumper with a passion - who buys and wears them? I rarely see them being worn at the footy - the only time I see them is when our team plays in them. The white jumper does not have a place at our club and in a few years, it will be a thing of the past (that's if our club has the gumption to stand up to the AFL)

Of course I waited for us to get well on top before doing so So many things have gone well in the last 2 and 1/3 days (including having 2 century makers today) Things couldn't have been scripted better since we were 6/132 (which seems like light years away now) Clarke and Lehmann have 9 days now (maybe 10) to bring the players back to Earth (and England will have to wait and they may overplay things when we get to Adelaide) We're in a great position. Anyway, for those who are interested, here's 'Aggers and Geoffrey again with their summary ... Australia build huge lead ... as well as that, here's a summary from the 'Mirror' ... Gabba curse shows no sign of letting up for England

B: Garland Frawley Grimes HB: Blease McDonald Dunn C: Toumpas N Jones Tyson HF: Trengove Hogan Vince F: Howe Clark Kent R: Jamar Watts Viney INT: Cross Terlich Salem SUB: Matt Jones Blease and Grimes for some run out of defence with Dunn used to clear the ball out. Frawley to recapture his dash under Roos and McDonald to get better a year later. We need to start running the ball directly out of defence and we'll need some pacy types back there in order to do so. Blease is a player who I reckon Roos will get the best out of (hopefully) It's a little risky but what the hell. Salem will probably force the selectors to pick him (all being good) Byrnes, Barry and Kennedy-Harris miss out for Kent. Couldn't find a spot for Dawes but he'll probably play. Maybe Terlich or Matt Jones to miss out (?) Our forward line just needs a bit more movement and pace. Would have liked to have found a spot for Clisby and/or Michie. Clark can share the ruck duties which means Gawn misses out (for now) McKenzie could come in as a specialist tagger if needs be. It was quite difficult picking the 22. No doubt a lot will change in the next few months to change opinions.

I'd have a few ideas to put to the AFL if I was in such a position to do so ... unless of course, anyone honestly believes the AFL never changes their mind on anything. Perhaps something along the lines of keeping our basic colours in a different design ... I believe the AFL would be open to suggestions. It may not be the closed door that many might believe.

Fair enough 'dl' ... Only rain can save England from certain defeat in this Test. I'd like to see Lyon get a big haul when we bowl. I also like the idea of having 9 full days off until the next Test. If it were a back to back situation we might be more vulnerable. England will have to stew on things for a while. Let's hope the curator prepares a typical road for Adelaide - our batsmen need some more chances to get some runs in the bank.

I don't associate the performances (good or bad) with the white jumper (that's the 3rd time I've said that in as many posts) Some on your side of the argument seem convinced that the other side of the argument is about the winning and the losing in the white "monstrosity". You may be right in some cases but not with many others (certainly not mine) I've never liked it and never will. I do understand that we're probably stuck with it but I don't have to accept or like it. Are we all supposed to just fall into line like dutiful subjects? It's often best to question things - that doesn't have to extend to a fall off in support. To me, this is like critiquing a player, coach or an administrator. With regards to the AFL's ruling on the subject - a deal could be done.

I see the jumper design and colours as one of the clubs core values. I associate the club with the "Red and the blue" It's not a "piddling" matter for many of us. It's one of the reasons why we started supporting the club in the first place. Winning games of footy is more important obviously, but traditions can also be adhered to as a matter of course. Test cricketers of all nations all play in the same uniform - white's (and believe it or not, I don't have a problem with that )

... as an example, if we were to give Maddinson, Silk or Burns a chance, they could bat in the "seemingly" unaccustomed position of no.6 (they all currently either open or bat in the first 3 for their state) The problem I have with your argument is that you're always waiting for the "right" time (and you may well be right with that view) The time is always nigh for me. That's our point of difference 'dl' (and it's ok to agree to disagree) I also don't believe that a young batsman needs to be knocking down the door to the Test side either - if the selectors all thought that Bradman was going to be the world's greatest ever batsman, why did they start him off at no.7 and drop him after his first Test? Traditionally many top order State batsmen started their Test careers batting at around the no.6 spot. It wasn't viewed as an unusual thing back when it was practised but it would be now - many cricket followers would be scratching their heads with bewilderment

Many here are mixing up the winning and losing element associated with the jumper design and colours. Others (like me) are arguing the pure aesthetics of the design and colours and are not even considering the winning and losing element. We're on a completely different page.

I believe there is nearly always room for one young batsman (unless the batting is settled and a new batsmen isn't needed) Bat that young player at no.6 until he's ready to go up the order (as long as he does enough to stay in the side, of course) Warner gets a hundred! Lets hope he makes it a big one ... I read somewhere once that Warner has been known to spend up to 6 hours in the nets in one session. Maybe that dedication is starting to pay off.

Yeah, we all know about the change from the fuchsia's to the Demons and that was probably for the better. Sometimes change is needed and other times it's not needed. This generation won't know any better but that doesn't necessarily make it right. I believe we've "sold out" when we never needed to. I'm all for moving with the times but effectively we should now be known as the red, white and blue (not the red and the blue) Should we include the word white in our song?

We could win multiple grand finals in that white "monstrosity" of a jumper and I'd probably still hate it. We're red and blue and that's all there is to it. This debate should not be about whether we win or lose in other colours - it should simply be about our traditional values and the aesthetics of the design and colours of the jumper. We're the Melbourne football club, we play our games at the Melbourne cricket ground (predominantly) we're called the Demons and we should always wear the red and blue. Stuff what the League says - we do things our way. We could do what the Pies have done - a clever, slight adjustment which appeased their fans and the AFL. The biggest issue with the "unsightly" white jumper is that it doesn't even remotely resemble our traditional jumper - it's like watching another club play. At issue here is the stark difference from our traditional jumper that the predominantly white jumper causes. Even a reverse of our jumper could be implemented but I don't believe we necessarily need to go that far ( a version with the red V being decidedly larger and/or the navy blue could be switched to royal blue when a clash of jumpers arises) A reverse of our traditional colours on our traditional jumper could be implemented as a last resort. Having said all that, we're probably stuck with the white "thing"

Sometimes the old ways are the best, 'DV'. The sport hasn't changed all that much compared to many other sports (like footy) so we can confidently default to tried and tested ways without taking any undue risks. I have no dislike of Rogers or Bailey but I wouldn't have considered either of them (when they were initially picked) because of their age. They may prove me wrong and if they do, so be it. We've picked other older players previously and apart from Michael Hussey, I can't think of too many batsmen picked at a later age who have had long and illustrious A grade careers (and shouldn't a long and illustrious A grade career of a player/batsman be the aim of the selectors?) It should also be remembered that back in the day, Shield teams seemed to contain more younger players so the selectors had a few more to choose from (older players would retire early as there wasn't much money in the game) To me, the selectors are taking what they perceive to be the "safe" route but it's the opposite in my view. Related is the way the selectors have treated the spinners (post Warne) There seems to very little patience involved and let's face it, Warne was a once in a generation player (probably multiple generations!!)

My philosophy is the same one as the thinking of old - bring one young player in at a time and bat him down the order. If he's any good he stays and then gradually makes his way up the order. It's a tried and true method and it's one that has served us well over many years. Bradman, Greg Chappell, Border and Harvey all started off this way. Many, like Hayden, Langer and Martyn have made their way back into the side after initially being dropped after being picked when young. We could say the same about Smith now (although he hasn't established himself just yet) Obviously not all young players are going to make it but nearly all our great batsmen were picked when in their early 20's. The facts are all there in front of us. I don't like short cuts or stop gap measures. Mine is a conservative view though it might be viewed as high risk - it depends on how you view things jazza

Previously, I've advocated going down the youth path with players like Jordan Silk, Nic Maddinson, Joey Burns and 1 or 2 others. I haven't changed my mind on that but I can understand why the selectors are going for a few older types. I'd prefer to see us build a team for the future and I've always felt that a young batsman can improve when placed at a higher level of competition. We could or should win this Test despite our top 6 not performing when the heat was on (as a collective) Some of the shot selections in the 1st innings was awful and if that's repeated, we may not be able to wriggle out of things again. However, I'd expect to see the same batting order for the next Test. They've all got a chance to consolidate their spots in this current 2nd innings and in the next Test (Clarke has proved himself of course and shouldn't really be included amongst the others) It's great to be in a winning position (at last) but there are 4 Tests to come. To regain the Ashes, our batsmen are going to have to perform at a very good level.

There's a bit of rain about but there's still 3 full days left (and time can be made up on any of those days) Hopeful that we'll go one up - and from there it will be game on. There's 9 full days off until the next Test in Adelaide. If we do go one up, England will want to get it back to square as soon as possible (which may mean they'll need to make the running) It's all set up for a great series now - England will bounce back hard, sooner or later (just not in this Test please )

There's still more than a few doubts about our batting but the teams overall fighting qualities have been on show in the last day and a half. We've played well in the big moments which is when games are decided. I know you place a fair bit of emphasis on Lehmann's role and although it's still early doors, if we go one up, the team can gain a lot of confidence moving forward. As well as that, we looked to have some good plans for their batsmen and that's where a good coach comes to the fore. Some terrific signs but there's still a long way to go. Anyway ... here's Geoffrey Boycott and Jonathan Agnew with a 22 minute podcast from today's play. I'm just about to listen to it myself but I'm betting Geoffrey won't be holding back! ... Test Match Special - England blown away by Johnson

He's in good hands then. He looks very fit and healthy for a 32 year old so that area isn't an issue. We'll need him fit and firing for the 3rd Test in Perth (which is nearly always a "result" Test) I wonder if the selectors have a plan for Mitch? The Perth Test follows the Adelaide Test after only a few days break - Adelaide can be hard work for fast bowlers. At issue here are our reserve or back-up fast bowlers (of which we don't have a lot due to injuries)

Nah, didn't see that coming - at all. Obviously was hoping for the best but that is a huge turnaround from being 6/132 half way through day 1. We'll struggle to lose this Test now and a few of our batsmen have now got a real chance to cash in. There's a hundred sitting there waiting for at least one of our batsmen. DK has been working with Johnno which might explain a few things and having McDermott back as the bowling coach is also a positive move. How things can change in such a short space of time - amazing The series is well and truly alive!

TV games ... Friday 12.30pm New Orleans at Atlanta (ESPN only) Monday 5.00am San Diego at Kansas City (Fox2) 5.00am Pittsburgh at Cleveland (OneHD) 8.05am Indianapolis at Arizona (Fox2) 8.25am Dallas at NY Giants (OneHD) 12.30pm Denver at New England (OneHD & ESPN) Tuesday 12.30pm San Francisco at Washington (ESPN) ... all the other week 12 games Tips ... New Orleans Carolina San Francisco

Terrific comeback but being 6 - 132 at one stage was another huge disappointment. The lack of century making ability from our top 6 (apart from Pup) is a real concern. Warner had a real chance today to make a big score before his dismissal (which looked soft) Watson and Smith both played at deliveries that they could have left (after both got starts) The less said about the dismissals of Rogers, Clarke and Bailey the better. However, despite all that, Haddin and Johnson did a fine job getting the team out of the mire and you might have even taken 8/273 at the start of the day (all things considered) Haddin's experience came to the fore just when we needed it. We're going to have to bowl well tomorrow all the same. Johnson might be having one of his big games - let's hope so because we're gonna need it! We could do with a bit of cloud cover tomorrow to help our bowlers.

Had a look at your schedule and you could win any of your 5 remaining games - you could also lose any of them with all your injuries! It's just so hard to predict ... reckon you win 3 at least which would get you to 10 wins. The Indi game at home (Cinci) might hold the key - both the Colts and the Pats have a few tough games so it's not done quite yet. I believe the 1 seed will go to Denver or KC in the AFC (the return fixture between those 2 sides may decide a few things - Denver are at the Pats next week on SNF whilst the Chiefs should notch up another win at home against the Chargers) Carolina winning today changes things a fair bit - suddenly they've become a real threat. They played well against a fairly determined New England outfit. Another dubious call right at the end but I thought the Panthers were the better side on the night (just!) Your blokes are doing well despite all those injuries. Agree with you re the Steelers. Big Ben knows how to manage and win games - 8 and 8 should get it done for the 6th seed in the AFC. The question is - which wild-card team is gonna get to 8 wins! (just watch the 6th seed get to 9 wins now just to spite me) Anyway ... no change in the points tally in the tipping comp ... 4 - cowboy from hell 3 - Strafford 2 - Macca 1 - pantaloons, DemonDave 0 - Gorgoroth, 45HG, Norm Smith's Curse, bananas, Arrow ... Week 12 games ... The BS Report