Macca

The other real worry is if one or more of these missiles launched by North Korea hits a target by accident ... given the recent history of these missiles, would anyone be surprised if that happens? And then what happens? Retaliatory action based on a mistake? ... and then there's the very real possibility of a genuine attack from North Korea or a pre-emptive strike by the Americans. Meanwhile, Putin & the Russians are stirring the pot and the Chinese seem to be sitting on their hands. I'd offer up a solution if I had one but we're dealing with a number of volatile variables and more than a couple of leaders who I have zero trust in. I don't envy your situation CBF.

Even when we defeated Adelaide I was circumspect. I thought that after that game we were a genuine chance at finals but more so based on the competition not having a number of excellent teams. In that scenario, any number of teams can 'make it' Therefore, the finals are wide open ... however, we along with Essendon, the Eagles & Port were always going to be long shots at winning the whole thing. I'd expect 2 of those teams to exit in week 1 and whichever team gets through to week 2 will almost certainly exit in that week as well. The finals experience would have been good for the group but missing out might act as a greater spur. My concern is with the list though - we probably need another 2 decent off-seasons before I'd be satisfied. We need pace, speed of ball movement, height & talent. So do most, if not all of the clubs. The coaching of the team isn't perfect either. Our starts are often abysmal.

The area that everyone should always look at (first) is player talent and how much of that player talent we actually have. You'd reckon most would have learned a valuable lesson from the years 2007-2015. i.e. our list was bereft of talent and was the primary reason as to why we couldn't win games. That, coupled with poor coaching and abysmal recruiting. Roos spent most of his time at the club rebuilding from the ground up (Barassi had to do the same with his tenure here) Fast forward to right now and we're still short on talent. Except, we're better off than what we were previously. The coaching & recruiting is better too. The whole week has become a beat-up of epic proportions. The answer is quite simple - we're just not that good and we have a long way to go before we're a true contender. You should try living in Melbourne Steve - it's everywhere you go. Forget social media, even my local pharmacist reckons 'we' drink our own bathwater.' I tried to set him straight but to no avail. I could give you numerous other examples. Anyone would think that we threw away a chance at a premiership - we're miles off and people need to keep it real.

We're a work-in-progress. We've gone from having 2 or 3 decent players to now having up to 10-12 good footballers. And about half of those 10-12 good players had less than productive season's because of form/injury. It's true that we need footballers with leg speed but I'd be surprised if the club doesn't try and address that issue. But those types of players have to be able to play the game to a good level too. As previously stated, that's easier said than done when you're trying to evaluate high-school age talent. What stands out is that Hunt & Frost look so much quicker than most on our list. I hope we hang on to Frost for that reason and in turn, coach the lad into being a decent footballer. Watts can be a quick player too but he doesn't use his own pace to advantage. Trying to prise talented quick players from other clubs is difficult too - I mean, it's not as if we'd entertain the thought of letting Hunt go.

The eye test ... Compared to a lot of the other sides, we move the ball too slowly (from an overall perspective) However, we at times do move the ball quickly. And the leg speed of our players is slow too. When we're playing well we play a type of 'tempo' football which makes us look quick but our base game is at the contest and contested ball. Stoppages suits our style generally because of Gawn and our contested ball winners (Oliver, Jones, Viney & Tyson) But a number of teams worked out a way to break down our game style - more so in the 2nd half of the season. Those teams weren't necessarily the successful teams either. A number of teams found a way to pressure us into mistakes and then we often got crushed on the rebound or from the oppositions spread. The first quarter against the Pies was just more of the same as to what we'd seen previously. Again, mainly in the 2nd half of the season. I also believe our style of play tires the team out towards the end of the season. The 2-way running and our own pressure that we exert comes at a price. I'm not sure what the answer is entirely apart from the maturity that will naturally occur and the recruitment of some skilled players with genuine leg speed. The latter requirement is easier said than done though. All clubs want those types of players.

With no footy on this weekend I'll be tuning into the last round of league. Some vital games on show with finals spots at stake. Starts tonight on 'Gem' (or foxtel) ... Broncos @ Cowboys (7.30pm) Nth Queensland need to win to secure a finals spot.

Leaving aside those teams with little hope, I found myself still leaving out a number of decent or half decent teams (Giants, Eagles, Texans, Raiders, Bengals, Saints(?), Arizona(?). Rams(?) As always, a few teams will fall away and other, less fancied teams will bob up from nowhere. Every year we've done this I reckon we've all missed by a fair bit. Picking 5 from 8 division winners is about par. AFC: North: Steelers East: Pats South: Colts West: Denver WC: KC, Ravens NFC: North: Packers East: Dallas South: Falcons West: Seahawks WC: Vikings, Panthers NFC Championship - Falcons/Dallas AFC Championship - Patriots/Steelers SB: Patriots/Dallas

I reckon we'll make 7-9 changes to the primary list ... with specific needs in mind. Any more than that and you're just shuffling the deck chairs. However, the caveat is that we're going to have to be quite creative to get what we need (want?) I'm more looking at what type of players we need to bring in. And sometimes there's a need to give up something to get something. We need pace, skill & height.

Those players who we had expectations for and who underperformed will come under the microscope. That includes players who haven't come on as expected and those who haven't progressed much past C or C+ standard. Obviously, we won't and don't have a need to dispense with 12-14 players as we've done in the recent past, but it's my hope that the club do make a median amount of changes to the list. We may need to be quite creative as we've been more recently, but that's ok. I'm one to move on quickly - the playing of the games for this season is over. It's time to plan for next season.

Well, I'm old school Gonzo so I see the coach motivating the players as one of his main roles. Along with devising a game plan and various other tasks & needs. I get your frustration but I've a strong feeling that Goodwin will be spending the next weeks/month having a very close look at the list. I'd be surprised if there aren't at least a few casualties. We need to make changes in order to give ourselves a chance to get much better.

Forget the sports psychologist, the coach is there to suitably motivate the players. After all is said and done, that's his job. And if certain players don't respond, drop them. If they are repeat offenders, delist or trade. Footy basics 101.

Yep, it's also important to remember that a lot of clubs have a lot of deficiencies as well. But I'd rather see the club create a greater gap between us and those other clubs = more wins. Our strengths are at the contest, contested ball, our teamwork (at times) stoppages, in the ruck and we are not bruise-free. We need more quick players like Hunt & Frost. Both those lads are learning how to play footy though. Oliver is an enormously quick thinker with lightning fast hands, and he reads the play well. Tyson is a ball magnet but we need to learn how to feed off him and use him properly. Other players have other strengths We're not the worst but we're a fair way off the best. I want to see the club build a great list. Like a dour accountant evaluating a company that may or may not be going places, the list should perhaps be looked at and addressed from a pessimistic point of view.

We've traded out and even delisted contracted players before ... for instance, Gysberts, Martin & Morton were all traded out in the one off-season (whilst under contract) and we paid out Michael Evans as well, in another off-season.

The current list is really only capable of 10-12 wins. We have deficiencies in the backline, forwardline and in the midfield. We are often a slow side and even mediocre teams are able to exploit our slow movement of the ball - that's why we lose to them. It's time to face facts. We also lack a killer instinct and start too many games slowly before we slip into gear (and often, that's too late) Other teams knew how to easily beat us when we were bruise free and they now know that they can beat us with leg speed and quick movement of the ball. There are no secrets in the AFL. Opposition tall forwards are a real issue too. More than a few of our players are overrated too ... we're just not that good and we missed the finals for good reasons. However, if we can improve our list we can win more than 12 games ... we need 2 key backs, 2 key forwards (T-Mac should be one of those) and an injection of real pace and skill in the midfield (3 or 4 of them) We also have far too many inbetween players on the list and it's time to cull them. We do all that and we can play finals.

10 days to go and it's on ... not a bad game to start with too - KC @ Patriots (Friday Sept 8 - 10.30am) Anyway, for those who may want to participate in an NFL tipping comp, we're running one here (again) Feel free to join in the comp anytime. It's a bit of fun and we could do with a few more people on the thread anyway. It looks like we've got 6 or 7 starters to begin with so it's all systems go. Rules of the 'Demonland' NFL tipping competition All participants are allowed 3 picks only in any given week - but, they must all be 'road' teams. Anyone who correctly tips all 3 winners from their 3 picks receives 1 point (any number of people can win a point in any given week) Bonus points are up for grabs in weeks 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 (2 points to all winners) whilst week 17 carries 3 points for any given winner. No margins or correct scores are required - just the straight winners. If you miss a week or come into the comp later on, there is no penalty. You just simply miss the chance to win points for that week or weeks. You can join in the comp at any time. Your tips must be in before the start of Monday's games (AEST) ... or before the Friday game if you include that game. All 3 tips must be included in your post (editing your tips is strictly forbidden ) The person (or persons) with the most points at the end of the regular season wins. Here's an early look at the week 1 games & lines ...

Actual outcomes is where I'd rather do the evaluating Missing games through injury or suspension affects the overall score. Some players average score per game might be different but if a player doesn't play or is not available, he's of no real value. I don't necessarily mean that as a criticism - it's more of a matter of fact analysis. Jones - 6.5 Viney - 6 Hogan - 2.5 Salem - 4.5 Watts - 4.5 Petracca - 5.5 Lewis - 7 Trengove - 1 Brayshaw - 2.5 Gawn - 4 Tyson - 5.5 Oliver - 9 Hibberd - 8 Stretch - 1.5 Kent - 1 Frost - 5 Melksham - 5.5 Hannan - 3 Pedersen - 5 Vince - 5 Kennedy-Harris - 1.5 T.McDonald - 6.5 Weideman - 1.5 O.McDonald - 5.5 Hunt - 7 Neal-Bullen - 5.5 Bugg - 3 Spencer - 2 Garlett - 5 Jetta - 6.5 White - 1 Wagner - 2 Harmes - 3.5 For various reasons, the club could have expected a higher return (or in some cases, a much higher return) from Jones, Viney, Hogan, Salem, Watts, Brayshaw, Gawn, Tyson & Vince. If that had have happened, we may have even challenged for a top 4 spot. Any club that wants to contend needs it's best players playing well in a large majority of the games. And at least 12 - 14 of those 'best' players are needed. And they have to be good players. As an aside, the B & F numbers nearly always gives us a clear picture of the value of all the players. Players that finish outside of at least the top 10-12 are generally not productive enough. Some of the numbers that I've attached to the players are awfully low but it should be remembered that the score is for the actual outcome of each player for the entire season.

Couldn't agree more All supporter groups supporting any team in any sport around the world are basically the same. How does one spot the difference? (rhetorical) Blaming the supporters is just utter nonsense - we effect nothing. Never have, never will. In fact, without our numbers, there wouldn't be a club. The only other concession that I would make is that we can sometimes effect home town umpiring/refereeing decisions. Again, in any sport, anywhere in the world.

At least 8 changes are required. We need to find some established talent and draft for some prospective talent. 4 - 6 changes won't be enough

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Well, I never said it was easy. But if the aim is to have a list that can genuinely contend for an extended period of time, we need to get to work.

I've always preferred to look at the club from a list analysis point of view ... in other words, what do we need to be a genuine contender? If the aim is to have a list as strong as say 3 teams from the last 20 years (Brisbane, Geelong & Hawthorn) then we are absolutely miles off. We might have won 1 or 2 more games this season but there again we might have lost 1 or 2 more games. That's where I see it. Our list just isn't that good right now. We're obviously better than what we were but we've still got a fair way to go. What we need ... Another 2 key forwards ... Hogan seems to be injury prone and the only other real option at the moment is T-Mac. Another 2 key backs ... if T-Mac does play forward then that leaves us with Oscar & Frost. Oscar is still developing and Frost couldn't even get a game when it mattered. We need an injection of pace & class around the ground ... the current list contains too many in-betweeners who don't offer enough. Players like Kent, Kennedy, JKH, Harmes, Hannan, Bugg, Garland, Trengove, Stretch, Melksham, Pedersen, vandenBerg are all in the same sort of category - do any of them offer enough? I'm not advocating getting rid of them all but how many do we keep? All premiership teams generally have A grade talent spread around the various positions but how many genuine A graders do we actually have right now? Oliver had an A grade year but that's it. Making a play for some A grade talent should always be on the agenda. We're often made to look slow by even average opposition teams - Saturday was a great example of that. The Pies looked slick whilst we looked slow. Our ball movement was treacle pace. And Collingwood had another forgettable season. So we need to recruit some quicker players who can play the game. Our rucks are also injury prone and we gained no advantage in the ruck this season as opposed to last season - so we need another ruckman or 2. And with regards to our best 15 - 16 players, only about half of them performed up to standard. Some of that was due to injury but that is still a poor strike rate, all things considered. We've still got a long way to go. The club has at least got its act together with regards to off-field and the FD is performing up to scratch. We could regress if we don't address the issues that we currently face. But the FD department isn't circa 2008-2013. I'm expecting at least 8 changes to the list.

We're now in the full-on pro era Bobby so the way Adelaide approached and played out their game today was foreseen by many. It's just the way it is these days and they'll be primed for their home final against GWS in 2 weeks. I reckon they'll win easily ... GWS have plenty of talent but they are not a heart & soul footy club.

We would have had to have found our best form to beat Port at the Adelaide Oval and to be honest, that was a little unlikely. But of course we never really know and the experience at least would have been invaluable. It's not the be-all-and-end-all though. If we do make the finals next year, the sting from this season will still linger.

Not sure any team has missed the finals by a smaller margin in terms of percentage - 10, 11 points? Another forgettable record which we'll no doubt hold for yonks. In a lot of ways this was the opposite of '87 ... back then we had to beat another contender to give ourselves a chance and we needed another result to go our way (Hawks defeating another contender (Geelong) to pave the way) This time around we needed only one of 3 things to go in our favour and not one of those 3 happenings occurred. And you just knew it was going to happen that way too. We're going to have to wear this one for a while ... but hope springs eternal. A boom recruit or 2 will brighten things up. Bring on the off-season!