Macca

Kizer is 22 so there is plenty of time to teach him the QB position - what hope did he have at Cleveland? He's only 1 year out of college. So there's a long term hope. Hundley would want to improve greatly as he's looking like being the 3rd banana right now. Rodgers will be 35 in December but elite QB's go on until they're 40 these days. Or more in the case of Brees & Brady. Aaron is still as hungry as ever so at least 4-5 more years as long as he stays healthy.

Only 2cm - 3cm difference in height but Kizer plays tall and Hundley looks small. Kizer looks a bit like Prescott and Hundley looks like a fish out of water sometimes. We've got both on the roster right now but if Rodgers stays fit, he'll be playing nearly all the minutes. I like the idea of having a back-up QB to Rodgers as someone who can take a hit and/or gain yards with the run. The throwing should revert to 6-7 yard lateral passes or shorter throws downfield as opposed to what a gun like Rodgers delivers - different QB, different type of role. McCarthy should be able to figure it out - hopefully.

Us supporters aren't supposed to be the ones with foresight but even if we were being heard, it's the paid professionals and the board who just have to have that knowledge. Looking back, it was pure amateur hour. I'm sure they were trying their best but the direction was skewiff. But we bought in anyway because we are trusting souls and when things didn't work out, we are still here. Remarkable resilience really. Fast forward to right now - with there being no real stand-out clubs apart from Richmond, we've got a chance to win a couple of finals. You just never know. But I'm always one to believe that a clubs list can always be improved greatly no matter where that club sits ... if you miss one year recruitment-wise because you are resting on your laurels, that can be very costly. Other years you might recruit hard and fall way short anyway - we've seen that happen. I'm liking the look of our list but we've still got a fair way to go. Same deal for the NFL ... my Packers have to become a better than average team that can win without Rodgers - twice now he's been incapacitated and we've fallen away badly as a consequence. Kizer might do alright at the Packers away from the Browns. Time will tell. He's a big lad, very athletic and still only 22 years old. We should be able to teach the kid how to play the QB position at least ?

Yep And if you are embarking on a total rebuild why would you appoint a rookie coach? We got it right with Roos/Goodwin but DB never stood a chance . . it is hard enough to win games as a rookie coach with regards to the supporter heat. We threw the guy to the wolves. Hibdsight though Dappa. Neeld the same really because our list was bog ordinary when he took over. Roos turned over more than 30 players in 3 years.

I do believe there are legitimate times to moan though Dappa ... Seattle/Beast Mode SB moment Atlanta more than 3 converted TD's ahead deep into a SB Rodgers breaking another collarbone therefore ending the Packers season with a jolt Wentz going down with an ACL Rams not making the playoffs for 11 years with a terrible head coach for the most part. The Cleveland Browns.

I look bigger picture as a sports fan even though I know my own thoughts are largely worthless and pointless. Ultimate success is an obvious goal so getting to the playoffs/finals is an achievement because you've got the chance to contend and it has been hard work getting there. And the journey should be enjoyed and not dismissed if the ultimate goal isn't achieved. Divisional titles are like playing 2 finals in footy in my eyes. So enjoy it. The Northey, Daniher & Balme years should be somewhat celebrated because we played some great footy and had winning seasons. Many might disagree but I don't care for those sort of views.

Those barren Demon years between '65 to '87 taught me that just having a winning season is something to be celebrated (as an onlooker) Playing sport is different because at least you can control things and help create a proper direction. Ultimate success is therefore quite achievable. As onlookers we can really only hope for the best. If you were a Cleveland fan you'd have my sympathies. But I believe you just achieved the ultimate success yeah?

Sometimes this place is like that Monty Python sketch where they are all trying to out do one another with their miserable tales. I went 22 years without finals ('65 to '87) yet I still don't moan about it. What is the point ... nothing can be changed.

It is about perspective ... we'll therefore have to agree to disagree. And I said 'Somewhat' dominant ... miss that word Dappa? Anyway, our team just made the finals so moaning about the past about your team seems a bit odd.

But it still could be way worse for you ... Cleveland! Those 3 years under Harbaugh any Browns fan would take - in a nanosecond. It's like the miserable pessimists on the footy threads bemoaning the fact that we've terrible for 53 years ... more nonsense. We played some great footy under Northey, Daniher & Balme.

The joke? That sort of joke usually comes from uneducated idiots and one should never listen to an idiot. Put another way it is just opposition fans being opposition fans (idiots) The Reid era at the Eagles was a somewhat dominant one except for the absence of a SB win. That is my view and you'll never change my mind.

You missed the great 49ers/Montana era then. I lived through it but didn't witness it because if the lack of cable.

Hang on a minute there Dappa ... the Eagles haven't exactly been 'Cleveland-like' in the last 15 years. 9 playoff series' in 11 years under Reid was painful? You should be so lucky. It is not always about winning the ultimate prize especially in a 32 team comp. And you won the whole thing last season so there's the icing on the cake. And you could win it again this year too. ha ha ?

Ha! What does happen quite frequently is that the top teams in Europe are often involved in games where there are more than 2 goals scored in the match. Mainly at home although we saw Juventus do it as the away team yesterday. Barcelona did it as well after scoring 2 very late goals. And those gun teams usually win against average/fair/poor opposition as well. The best odds for those sort of results is when it's a good team at home vs another good team. Like Chelsea over Arsenal yesterday. Man City just beat Huddersfield 6 - 1 at home. They are probably the best at it.

On a serious note that go to whoa bet is more apt when talking about a "good" team Wadda I mainly look for a situation where the good team blows the poor-to-average team out of the water in the first quarter and then maintains that dominance. Even at this early stage I fancy our chances of dispensing with GWS early on next week. Might get 5-1 up to 7-1 on a go-to-whoa bet based on the straight win market. Just a thought.

Nostrodamus-like even if I do say so myself after quoting myself as well. ha ha But there was no monkey business over in the West today ... we really meant business and now we're playing for a possible double chance next week. Go the mighty Demons!

I honestly thought our best hope was round 23 against GWS but today's fabulous win puts it all to bed. Win next week and we might get real lucky and snag 4th spot. You never know. So the AFL finals begin on the same weekend that the NFL season starts so that will be a big weekend for us NFL/Demon fans. For years the Demons were well out of it early so we won't know ourselves. Win at least 1 final and the dual fanatical support continues on.

I've got 'Bit Of A Lad' going with a couple of others in a treble so there's some Weir representation Wadda ... should win. Small field means the jockey can place the horse wherever he wants. Probably 2nd for the most part? It's a little bit different in the major feature race though (Grand National Chase Race 6) ... there are at least 3 genuine chances. A half-decent trifecta race so I might have a go.

This thread has made me immediately focus in on a different way of putting a multi together ... your soccer selections last week especially. The footy ones from Wadda & BM as well. You still need a good dose of luck but I'll probably stick to "Good team at home against weak opposition" and then look for an appropriate margin bracket and/or total score - or domination throughout the match (H/F or Q/Q/Q.Q) And the West Brom outcomes are a good heads-up too ... well spotted DZ

Same here Wadda ... my first multi collect for quite some time. Had Tottenham & the Springboks legs as well as Chelsea & Juventus both winning with the match score being over 2.5 goals and my 5th leg was the Yankees winning by over 2.5 runs. They all came in. As previously stated, it's a nice way to start the day with an overnight victory. The coffee tastes just fine! I have got a treble going with the jumps racing up your neck of the woods today so I might get lucky again.

Q/Q/Q/Q could have been an option when we played the Suns as the line was -69.5 The leading at every change is a preference for me when a clearly superior team is playing a poor team at home. For instance, the Golden State Warriors can be paying 1.15 for the win at home against poor opposition but are often paying 1.70 - 2.00 for Q/Q/Q/Q given the same opposition. You bank on them starting off with a bang and then maintaining or increasing that lead for the entire match. The Bulldogs are paying 1.23 to win against Carlton but are paying 1.73 to lead at every change. If they jump the Blues as expected it's all over yeah? Or maybe not ?

Not a line Wadda ... either 1- 12 or 13+ You may be right about the line but with International Rugby Union games I go looking for the 2 margins on offer for either team. To my reckoning the sport is way more predictable than Rugby League in terms of who wins so it's then just a matter of getting the margin (or line) correct. For instance, in the Rugby Championship games Argentina rarely wins and the All Blacks rarely lose ... and the Wallabies/Springbok games often offer up close finishes. So the 1-12 comes into play. It's a very similar story with SuperRugby or the 6 Nations Rugby. Home field is a strong pointer as well. The NBA is predictable as well with about half the games ... again, the margins/lines or half time/full time gets the odds up. Q/Q/Q/Q (leading at every change) offers great odds in the NBA as well but only if you're very confident. Is the Q/Q/Q/Q a good option in footy?

On Laddies but the dividend would have been the similar elsewhere ... in all honesty, it was the bet of the weekend but again, when I watch sport I don't particularly want to barrack for a team against one of my teams so I avoid purposely. I'd rather watch sport for the aesthetics and the contest. For that reason, I tend not to bet on games that I intend to watch. To me it's the sport first when that sporting contest is worth watching. For instance, I watched the Wallabies/All Blacks match 'live' for the pure contest and aesthetics and thoroughly enjoyed it. Others might need other reasons and that is fair enough. The South Africa/Argentina Union game is different ... I could watch the game if I wanted to but I almost certainly won't watch it. So I've got a bet on the game. I will be watching the Hammers play at midnight though! No bets either!

All Blacks 38 Wallabies 13 ... the 13+ margin was paying 1.75 all week. But I can't remember the last time I ever bet against one of my own teams ... my thinking is there are plenty of other alternatives but that's just me.

Well, lets hope our accounts are boosted overnight hey Wadda. That's what I call a good start to the day when that happens. And then if the Demons get up that'll make the day even better ... we're a chance in both of the last 2 games after seeing the Swans finish over the top of GWS. On one or both of the days we just have to be better than the 2 opposition teams who are about as good as what we are. In the meantime, go the Springboks!