Macca

The contentious one could well be the new 'Hands in the Back' interpretation. A player playing from from behind can currently use his body or forearm to hold his ground but the use of the hands could easily open up a can of worms What's a push and what isn't a push? Another grey area created to add to the long list of grey areas. And what's to stop the player in front lurching forward once he feels the hands on his back? Don't like that new rule. The great unknown is the 'Traditional playing positions at Centre bounces' ... I like the new rule because it at least could reduce congestion (in part) We don't see true wingmen anymore so that position could be resurrected somewhat. The forward forays from the centre bounces might become more direct therefore bringing the high marking KPF's into the game more. The policing of the rule will be easy enough but we'll see infractions from forgetful players. The rest of the rule changes seem quite logical though ... we have a sport without offside so the coaches can and have redesigned the game. That's their right as they are charged with winning at the sport. So the AFL trying to bring about some order to the sport should be applauded. Whether it works or not is anyone's guess.

Time to reload as the Neo's dipped out

As for the over-the-top injury concerns ... AFLX is virtually tackle-free. And it is all over in 3 hours. I drove past Gosch's earlier last week and we were conducting simulated match practice of sorts. I saw numerous bodies around the ball, packs flying for marks and various players contesting the ball (the traffic was heavy) My first thought was - someone could easily do an ACL here or at least incur a soft tissue injury. But we are going to play 2 practice matches in the pre-season and the risk of injury then reaches the same levels as they do in the season proper games.

And you might be right too ... but you might be wrong. What happens then? My opinion is the same for a lot of these unknowns - wait and see what happens. I'm the same with judging new or young footballers. I've yet to come across anyone who gets it mostly right with these sorts of things. The truth is that most who judge too early are prone to getting it wrong. As for the format - whether I like it or not is immaterial. What matters is whether the format has a big enough appeal amongst others to gain an audience. And that may or may not happen. My personal opinion on whether I like it or not amounts to zilch. It's not about me.

50 over cricket has waned in the last 10 years because of the advent of t20 cricket. Again, driven by India and it's millions of people who fell in love with t20. Lots of Australians fell in love with t20 too. Many now probably see 50 over cricket as an overly long version of the 3 hour version. Not sure where Test cricket fits in but whilst that version remains strong in India, England & Australia, it will keep going. But progress happens and often that progress is an unstoppable force. If AFLX gains an audience separate to AFL, what's wrong with that? Doesn't it grow the overall sport?

Those aged over 18 up to 35 is also the target audience in my opinion. With possibly a number of add-ons from those aged older. That may or may not happen later. And then there is the completely untapped overseas audience. And why the call for people to 'Relax'? What on earth is there to worry about?

AFLX is not necessarily a positive change ... it is more so a completely different version of footy targeting a completely different type of audience. The new names for the teams may or may not be part of that potential appeal. Again, you and I aren't the target audience so we really don't count nor do we matter. AFLX is being structured for a different demographic. And t20 cricket is not going anywhere ... India and it's hundreds of millions of people will drive the success of t20 much like the Americans drive the support of baseball & the NFL. Those underestimating India do so at their peril. The money generated from India is enormous. We pale into insignificance by comparison. The Big Bash could completely fall over (and it won't) and t20 would still flourish & thrive from a world-wide perspective. Australia plays a very small part. But in relation to most sports in Australia, the Big Bash still gets a very big audience both at the venues and on TV. The A League, NBL, ARL & Super Rugby, ABL, Sheffield Shield and a few other sports would love to have the 60 free-to-air prime-time slots that the Big Bash occupies. It's not really my cup of tea but again, that matters not. CA doesn't need my eyes nor my attention.

Most I've spoken to are indifferent and may or may not take a look to see the potential. People don't like going against the grain either so your lot might be telling you stuff that you want to hear. We won't know much until the whole thing is played out over a 5 - 10 year period. Unless it's an abject failure which would end things quite quickly. I fancy that it might gain an audience large enough to be a going concern. The TV numbers will be interesting as there's not a great deal of sport going on that weekend. By the way, I am making no grandiose predictions about the idea nor am I a cheerleader for the concept. The AFL are going ahead with the idea regardless of our opinions. And a good percentage of footy fans are going to be tempted to have a look-see. You going to have a look? And have you read the reactions on this thread? Lots of anger and hate as I see it. Go back and have a re-read dc. State based is old hat and has no real appeal to a younger audience. As an example the Big Bash ditched the State thing and went to City based teams. And it worked despite those who opposed the concept. By the way, many of those who hate t20 keep comparing t20 to Test cricket. Comparing AFLX to footy is where people are getting it wrong. I see the differences and judge things separately. AFLX is not a threat to footy same as t20 is not a threat to Test cricket. However, one could argue that Test cricket is a threat to itself.

Hey @binman - great thread but I thought I'd condense all the rule changes into a block. Many are unaware of the changes (at least in detail) so here's the overview. Traditional playing positions at centre bounces Clubs must have six players inside both 50m arcs, with one player inside the goalsquare. Four midfield players must start inside the centre square with the two wingmen stationed along the wing. Kick-ins At kick-ins, a player will no longer need to kick to himself to play on from the goal square. Following a behind, the man on the mark will be brought out to 10m from the top of the goal square, rather than the existing five metres. Marks and free kicks in defence When defenders mark or receive a free kick within nine metres of their own goal, the man on the mark will be brought in line with the top of the goalsquare. Runners and Water carriers Team runners may only enter the playing surface after a goal has been kicked and must exit before play restarts. Umpire contact Players will be prohibited from setting up behind the umpire at centre bounces. 50m penalties The player with the ball: Must be allowed to advance the mark by 50m without the infringing player delaying the game. Will be able to play on while the 50m penalty is being measured out. Kicking for goal after the siren A player who has been awarded a mark or free kick once play has ended: Will now be able to kick across their body using a snap or check-side kick But must kick the ball directly in line with the man on the mark and the goal. Marking contests The 'hands in the back’ rule interpretation has been repealed so a player can now: Place his hands on the back of his opponent to protect his position in a marking contest Provided he does not push his opponent in the back. Ruck contests: prior opportunity A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity. Where there is uncertainty over who is the designated ruckman, the ruckman for each team will still be required to nominate to the field umpire.

The concept is aimed at a younger audience and/or a potential overseas audience (long term) Whether you like it or even believe it can work is an entirely different discussion. By the way, the whole thing lasts one evening for 3 hours. A mere blip in the whole scheme of things. The concept is definitely not aimed at the over 35's ... the league has already got that money stitched up. And the AFL has been in the business of making money since the sport became professional. Much like all the other sporting leagues around the world. We are no different - people are the same all over. The rest of the world has close to zero interest in the traditional game played on an oval - and that isn't changing in a hurry either. I see the whole thing as a bit of tackle-free harmless fun that might just gain an audience. The sky isn't falling.

We're trialing the 3pick only so 1 best bet is enough Wadda. As individuals, we can add-on as we see fit to make it a 4pick or bigger. Just for a while to see if it works. The thinking is that we as individuals will often have a standout pick for the weekend ... I tried it with mates but they kept putting up 2 or 3 picks each so it didn't work. Multiple options just confuses things. So it is 1 pick only with no optional picks. Exactly the same as the racing best bet. Again, it's just a trial mate - we can go back to having 2 choices each whenever we like. Anyway, I'm on the 'NEREOCA' (the Neo's?) with the other 2 picks and got 21-1 (enhanced)

Over to you @Wadda We Sing for the clincher! n.b. The 2 other picks quoted above are for games to be played on Monday morning

I haven't watched a lot of A League but I watched tonight's game and it was quite entertaining. The 1st goal was a ripper. Overall coverage was excellent.

That horse is a mare ... I'd rather come back as an entire. A Group 1 performing entire. They can retire me as a triple crown winning 3 year old because we all know what comes next. Actually, in theory, that 'entire' lifestyle sounds quite exciting. Where do I sign up? ?

Former Australian galloper and last year's QLD Derby winner 'Dark Dream' is contesting the G1 Hong Kong Classic Mile tomorrow ... won it's last start up there in a good grade by 4.5 lengths. The HK Mile is obviously much tougher but it has been installed as favourite. The race is for 4yo's only which is the Derby age in HK. The preceding race (Centenary Vase) will be a keenly contested affair as well - some old favourites are running around again but it's looks a trifecta race with at least 3 winning chances out of the 9 runners. Group 1 Hong Kong Mile Group 3 Centenary Vase Best Bet Strike Rate 78: 30 - 12 - 12 Australian Group & Listed Races

Monday Morning France Ligue1 07.00am $2.20 PSG Win (+3.5 Goals Match Score) vs Rennes

Endless Drama blows the start and then Tom Melbourne wins. What are the odds? That's racing! Good old Tom still has his supporters though - started at 4-1.

I'm newly rusted on to Laddies so I'm not sure what the TAB offers now DZ Going straight out on KC wouldn't have been all that different anyway in terms of the odds offered ... and lets face it, the 3rd pick should have saluted anyway. But sometimes the close one and the luck goes the other way and you get the win.

While I've got ya, on the Monkey Business thread DZ and myself have been trying out a 3pick only ... I pick each if it's just the 3 of us. I cashed out on the first 2 picks last week for a handy collect for the cost of 3 coffees. I then reloaded on the 3rd pick in another multi but dipped out ... but, most importantly, the collect was there to get on the board. Not sure what DZ did but he might have let it ride. And but for a line of scrimmage infraction in the NE/KC match, we would have snagged 3 from 3 at 20-1.

Leg 1 on the board ... you're back with gusto Wadda! But this ain't no picnic, we need 2 more for the collect! Best Bet Strike Rate (running tally) 76: 30 - 12 - 11 Australian Group & Listed Races

These are open forums Wadda so I welcome all views ... doesn't mean I'm going to always agree though. Often the best way to arrive at the truth is to open things up for discussion.

Ha! Sporting arguments fall into the same area as religious & political discussions. Endless drama indeed. Anyway, with Coral Bay drifting a tad I ended up getting 58-1 (boosted) As always, fingers crossed. There are a few races that I'm interested in today ... more so the Blue Diamond Preview's. But just watching (no bets on the 2yo's) with a view to the future. Welcome back Wadda

Very impressive again by Whispering Brook in the Australia Stakes ... beat a crack field and the horse is a winner. Running excellent times too so the horse could have a decent Autumn.

Horses are a breed of animal that were born to run (and jump) ... they've been on this earth in some form for over 50 million years. Humans for about 250,000 years. The human and the horse became ideal partners as a transportation device. Later on we started racing them. Natural progression/natural selection. What happened was always bound to happen. It comes under the 'Stands to Reason' banner. Before the car it was the horse. The pig is a slaughter animal. So is the sheep, chickens, beef cattle, goats, etc etc etc. We eat them as a matter of course. Some cultures eat dogs & cats. Some even eat Kangaroos and crocodiles (Aussies) The indigenous Australians ate Koala's. Maybe they still do. You live off the land, that's what you do. By comparison, the horse gets treated quite well. If we didn't ride or race horses we'd probably just eat them. So it's ride & race or eat. You wouldn't keep a horse as a household pet unless there was a equestrian aspect to the whole thing. It is estimated that about 250,000 cats & dogs are put down in Australia each year. Unwanted pets by everyday Australians. Yes, I broaden arguments. Because it's necessary. Context and all sides of an argument is my specialty. Anyway, I reckon I'd rather be a horse if I wasn't a human. The gambling aspect is a tricky one ... many punters are addicted and often punt badly as a consequence. But if gambling on the horses was banned it would go underground immediately. The key is to bet with expendable income only and then bet smart. Or not bet at all. On this thread I push the agenda of the best against the best. Group racing is at the forefront of my thinking - not the 7th at Moe. Overseas Group racing as well. The gambling aspect has a direct association obviously but it's not at all like the mindless poker machine industry. Not even close. You could ban poker machines but then the roads North would be filled with Pokies people heading for the border. Nationwide - maybe. But what are the chances? I overreacted as well and have deleted my reply also. Apologies.

Numerous people spend their entire lives devoted to a footy club ... lots of money invested (over time - tens of thousands of dollars), countless hours with an emotional investment that is endless. And if you're a demon fan you might spend up to 10 or 20 hours per week reading and contributing on this site. And for the last 54 years - no big wins (premierships) zilch. Now that is what I'd call a gamble. A very very big gamble. And if you're under 60 years old - no return. And I don't have a problem with that as I'm one of those Demon supporters. So it's a bad thing to have a flutter at the races with the chance of actually winning something? Half their luck I say.