Macca

Cause & effect DJ If the footy public can be convinced that the umpires haven't got it in for their respective teams, the abuse would die down dramatically. But the habits of a lifetime are hard to change so good luck trying to change the thinking at the root cause. So what we're left with are the symptoms or the aftermath. But how is that changed without fixing things at the root cause? Again, we blame the A-end of a problem. The oldies should know better and it's they who can change the thinking ... but lets face it, at a young age it is drummed into us (by the oldies) that the umpires are to blame. We're taught to hate the umpires and see them as the enemy. By the time we reach adulthood that thinking is entrenched. Obviously not for everyone but for many. So I don't really have a solution other than expressing my views in forums such as these. And I am firmly convinced that we would have easily been able to overcome the odd poor umpiring decision in the last 5 decades if the club had been a stronger club (across the board) Teams that win flags aren't favoured by the umpires. Unless one believes otherwise and then one would have to question the flags we won under Smith etc.

So calling anyone a maggot, d head, idiot or suchlike is not personal abuse? More 'Conditioned' thinking is almost certainly the real answer with regards to the what is or what isn't regarded as personal abuse. Just because the umpires don't return fire doesn't mean they aren't offended by the insults. And it is quite difficult for the umpires to return fire anyway ... tens of thousands of rabid fans hurling abuse on a constant basis in any given game would be impossible to deal with. Many have never given the matter any real thought. They've just joined in with the rest as a form of 'Rites of passage'. Passed on through the generations. The mob mentality and group-think rules. The sport is impossible to umpire correctly ... therefore numerous errors & mistakes are going to be made with the adjudication of the sport. It's nothing personal but many 'Jump the shark' and believe it is personal.

The umpires are never the reason for a team performing poorly. And the umpires have never even gone close to costing us a flag. Certainly not in any of the last 55 years. More so inept management, rubbish players, poor coaching and poor culture and a losing mentality. Face it, we've never been good enough post the Smith era. And that is on us. No one else. Control what can be controlled.

Weekend Special Philadelphia Phillies vs Cincinnati Reds Monday 03.05am Philadelphia -1.5 $2.45 Managed to snag a baseball 3pick overnight where 3 good performing teams won at home whilst holding a decent pitching advantage. The 'Normal' happened. So if the form continues to hold up we should be alive going into the QB clash!

Silvagni's strike rate at GWS went according to how the draft generally works. There are an amazing number of very talented under 18 players who, for whatever reason, just can't cut it at the top level. And if we knew the reason as to why that happens, they wouldn't get picked until much later in their respective drafts. But the prized picks aren't given up on easily and that is where Silvagni has erred with the recycled picks at Carlton. Top end picks often get a number of years to prove themselves. We've done it at Melbourne a stack of times. And those same top end picks often get other chances at other clubs - and it rarely ends well.

Widgee has come into 10.00 (3.20 the place) ... once again the ADATR crew have started another plunge!

Dare I say it ... very confident with those 3 Wadda. A good dividend too at 22-1 Widgee winning offers 90-1 all-up. Worth a one coffee outlay ?

Best Bet Randwick Race 7 No.9 Deprive $2.15 A bit short but should win My other big watch is 'Kolding' in the QLD Guineas at Eagle Farm (Race 5) ... set a track record 2 weeks ago at Randwick but it is also on the short side ($2.60) As for the Stradbroke ... I'm having a First4 on the race and I will definitely be including 'Widgee Turf' ($15 the win & $3.80 the place) on top with a few others ... has run some excellent times at the 1400m and has a 12: 4-5-2 record over the journey as well. Needs a good run from the 16 gate but can storm home.

Weekend Special MLB Monday 4.10am $2.35 Chicago White Sox (-1.5) vs Cleveland Indians.

Weekend Special MLB Monday 4.10am $1.80 Minnesota Win (-1.5) vs Chicago White Sox Good luck lads and for those others that are playing.

Some good racing coming up at Eagle Farm on Saturday with James McDonald on some very fancied rumners ... Lord Arthur (R3) Accession (R6) Military Zone (R9) James is also on RingerDingDing in the Group 1 Kingsford-Smith Cup ... 12-1 can be had. 3 Group 1's at The Curragh (Ireland) over the weekend as well ... 2 x Guineas races and the WFA Gold Cup Racenet.com RacingPost.com (UK)

"The more you explain it, the more I don't understand" Mark Twain

Twain actually came to Australia on a talking tour in the 1890's ... he'd hit a financial crisis and needed the dosh. Visited Horsham, Bendigo, Ballarat, Wagga, Tassie and all sorts. Went to the Melbourne Cup etc etc. Didn't get as far as Freo but who could blame him. The book (Following the Equator) is out in the public domain so you and others can listen to the book here ... 'Following the Equator: A Journey Around the World' The Australian Stuff is from Chapter 9 onwards but I recommend listening in from the start.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain

Same here mate ... we'd probably agree on most things. It is an odd stance but I'm passionate about not blaming umpires. And I make no apologies for that stance. I mentioned to dl earlier that I'm often in match committee mode. Nearly always in fact Which means that nearly 100% of the time I'm looking at ways for the team to improve. Not that I have any influence ... not many of us do. So in my opinion, we lost against the West Coast because we converted poorly. We should have been 6 or 7 goals in front at 3/4 time and from that position you nearly always win. We choked in front of goal and it cost us. But from an overall point of view ... Taking the umpires out of it ... unless we're great we aren't winning anything. Above the shoulders pertains to talent. Without talent, we could get a dream run with the umps and we would still never win big.

I was using you as an example ... and there are plenty here who do the same. Match fixing hey ... that's one hell of an accusation. Be careful not to name names.

Actually, if people stopped quoting me I'd have nothing else to add But, they keep quoting me and I just reply in kind. It might look like I'm trying to dominate the thread but I probably would have only posted a few times but for the quoting

Your sample size is you alone? That's what I call super micro From a bigger picture point of view there are tens of thousands who spew forth their venom about umpires on a weekly basis And if you don't believe there is hate involved then why this thread called 'Umpires hate Melbourne'? Don"t you think the thread title should be changed given your opinion that the umpires aren't hated? Genuine question.

Yet you said this earlier in the thread.

I have probably put up more possible answers than anyone else ... try reading all my post properly. Read post #136. 90% of games the umpires aren't noticed? You have got to be joking. If anything, it is the other way around And yeah, people hate umpires all right. On this site alone the hate spews forth and they get called cheats constantly. You do it yourself ... go back and have a read on what you've said over time. Even on this thread IIRC. You just don't like what I have got to say ... it might be best if you put me on ignore. Trust me, I am not going to mind.

The bias against umpires is firmly entrenched in many ... from a young age we are taught to hate the umpires and see them as the enemy. So trying to change the habit of a lifetime is near impossible for most. We know no other way to address the issue ... unless there is another way. But my comments aren't aimed at the majority ... more so a percentage of the majority who are up to doing an about-face. And you are not one of those persons. But our discussion allows me to air my views and target that percentage of people. It is not really you that I am trying to convince. You've made up your mind. Again, I see what everyone else sees. I see all the mistakes but I apportion blame at the custodians who run the sport and the game itself. The umpires are just the most obvious easy targets. And I reckon a lot of people have never thought about it nor have they ever been challenged about it. Have you ever met anyone that never blames umpires? I have met plenty. But on this site, why would anyone speak up? 'Bossdog' used to but he's no longer here (I wonder why?) As for the 3 umpires that you named and apparently 'like' (Fisher, Chamberlain, Rosebury) most here would probably disagree. But I wonder if they will come at you about your views? Probably not. But if they do come at you, you're going to have to argue on their behalf. That would be funny.

I completely disagree with just about everything you've said ... we are worlds apart. I played in the 80's but have been watching the sport since the late 60's I am not sure we have heard the end of this either ... it's about time the umpires took some affirmative action. Not many people have to go about being insulted the way umpires are whilst trying to do their best. I can understand the emotion attached on game day and perhaps a day or 2 later but this umpire bashing is a 365 days a year thing for many. Obsessive/Compulsive/Addicted springs to mind. And if we didn't have umpires we wouldn't have a game. Do you want them all sacked? Are there any umpires that you don't dislike ... if so, name them. And if you can't name one umpire that you don't dislike, you must dislike every one of them So name the umpires that you don't dislike. I am going to need 10 or 12 names not just a couple. Prove to me that you're not heavily biased in this area.

No he didn't He got off lightly Back in my day you would have sent off and incurred a suspension for talking in such a disrespectful way to an umpire He should thank his lucky stars How would you like to be insulted like that?

The AFL loves being in the news ... any publicity is good publicity for them so people constantly talking about the umpires is probably music to their ears. They have one eye on the money and the other eye on what makes them the money. Makes good business sense and sport is big business these days. The old days are gone. We don't have to like it but we almost certainly have to live with it. A lot of the major sporting bodies act in similar ways ... always looking to be in the news. Soccer, the NBA & the NFL are 3 good examples. Especially soccer ... the big money clubs control the sport. As for FIFA - where does one start?

Full time umpires might alleviate the issue surrounding the point that you make above but the biggest issue to me is what goes on in a general sense in congested situations. Incorrect disposal, throws, high contact that isn't dangerous, ducking, prior opportunity that is questionable etc etc. It is why I believe the game needs to be opened up ... a modicum amount of congestion is ok but again, too much congested footy is too hard to officiate. And the criticism of the umpires has increased a great deal coninciding with the extra congested footy that we've seen of late. I'd make some major changes to the sport in order to open the game up.