Hannabal

Thanks for that. Obviously Scully will go 1 no matter who has first pick. I've only seen Morabito live once, but loved his attributes. His pace, strength, size, and ability to take the game on is well suited to AFL level. Sometimes it's best to focus on what a player brings to the table rather than concentrate and almost wait for them to err. I clearly see more upside with Morabito than you, but I'll take your comments on board. Especially as you've seen more of him. I've only seen Trengove once and he was a little quiet, but he had class stamped all over him. You just know that he's going to be an A grade midfielder. He's probably the safer option. They're very different players.

Where will he go in the draft ?

That's obvious. Craig Cameron tells an interesting story where he loved Simon Black as a player. The more he watched him the more he studied what he wasn't good at. He finally talked himself out of drafting him. Naturally, he now laments this decision and wished he'd relied on his initial gut feel. One can watch a player too many times. I like Morabito despite the odd errant kick or decision. I'd say to you, look at what he can do as well as having an awareness of where he can improve. He's a pretty special talent. As an aside, what do you think of Trengove ?

I was about to post the same. And 28 year old players won't take the long sighted view that supporters will either. Understandably. The OP is a kid I think. And good on him. I'd hate to think that I would agree with tanking at age 20. In 20 years time with tonnes of heartache under his belt and a still barren cupboard he may have a different view.

This is an underrated component of the game. I've not seen a decent handballer in Melbourne's guts since I've been following the Dees. Scully is a first dibs midfielder with sensational hands. Better than anyone on our list. Some of his quick give offs are fantastic and very important. Thankfully, he's as proficient 'outside' as he is 'inside'.

That sounds spot on to me and sensible. I believe you because it's exactly what the club should be doing. The players should be trying their guts out and the club will 'list manage' as best they can. If we win 5 after all of that then so be it. C'est la vie.

I will continue to go because I enjoy watching the development of the players. I expect them to be giving their all. I won't wear any club paraphernalia as it would be hypocritical - I would usually just have a scarf - and didn't last Sunday. I also didn't sing the club theme song for the same reason. And I won't barrack for the opposition. Although around a couple of mates we did joke a bit. I see that you've quoted Flower and Dixon. What are your thoughts on Lyon and Schwarz who think that it's lunacy to win more than one more game ? As does Gerard Healy, but I know he's not popular on here. As I may have stated earlier, I have no problem with any supporter that wants to win every game their club plays. It makes a lot of sense. Rightly, or wrongly, I see more long-term benefit if we don't. Once again, you disagree. No problem. One hypothetical question to you, Don, and all the anti tankers. If we win a flag in 7 years time on the back of Scully and whomever ends up at pick 3, and it's conclusive that we wouldn't have won this flag without Scully, who by now is considered a superstar, would any 'list management' have been worth it ? NB: some will say it's a silly question. Firstly, it's a question that is quite reasonable in content; and priority picks have already resulted in clubs winning flags, and secondly; answer it anyway. Afterall, it's a hypothetical.

Have you seen Scully live ? You may have missed this question in a previous post.

No problem. I consider it a civic duty.

If we don't get Scully, we don't get a pp. So it's not just winning a premiership with him, it's with him and the other top 3 pick. Within the industry it's considered Scully - daylight - everybody else. Have you seen Scully play live ? The following players are top 3 priority picks: Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Didak, Hodge, Ball, Judd, Cooney, Deledio, Roughead, and Griffen. Talent identification these days is a far more exact science. There will be other players in the draft who will become very good, but some within the industry consider Scully the best prospect since Judd. Judd would have gone no.1 if it wasn't for his two shoulder reconstructions. Selwood was touted as the likely no.1 a year out of his draft before he did his knee and missed the championships, which is why he slid to 7. I repeat, it's not just about getting Scully, but getting Scully and another top 3 pick. It's about getting two of the list mentioned above instead of one. Stars win premierships. We need to accumulate as many stars in our list of best 6. Presently we have none.

True. Dealing with dimwits is one of my failings. Always has been. (hand in air)

Why the hysterical laughing ? If we don't get Scully we also miss out on another top 3 pick. Maybe the ramifications of blowing such an opportunity is lost on you. Scully plus pick 3 is so much greater than pick 3 and 20. That said, I too am getting sick of banging on trying to educate the nuffy supporters that don't quite understand the value of what's on offer. Headbutting a brick wall would give me more pleasure. Many of you don't burn deeply enough for a flag. If you did you'd want your club to give itself the best opportunity to win one. And that's all it is; an opportunity. I've wasted my time with you.

You make a lot of stupid posts. 14 ?

I just want the best footballer that I've seen at junior level in a long time. How old are you ?

No players tank.

I don't have facebook and never will, and I don't even know what twitter is, except I gather it's a way of communicating to people what you're up to. Why would I give a stuff what someone's up to ? I have very young boys, but already I tell them not to put anyone on a pedestal. The hero worshipping that goes on with regards to 'celebrities', etc, is pathetic. And I hate that term 'celebrity'. Why are they celebrated ? Then again, I accept I'm probably unusual in this regard.

I couldn't disagree more. Stars win premierships and the best chance to recruit stars is with pick 1 and another early pick. Clearly, it would be horrendous if we lost this opportunity. As for Scully ? You don't seem terribly familiar with him. Scully will be a star. I'd venture to say that he'd be our best midfielder now. Even a Carlton supporter on one of the forums said that Scully will be better than Murphy, Gibbs, or Kreuzer. He's a better, more rounded player than Rich. His left foot isn't quite as good as Rich's, but he has him covered in every other area. He's got better hands, is a better mark, is better on his non preferred side, and he's much much faster. And his left foot is also superb, like Rich. There's a reason that he's been touted as no. 1 for two years and is still a lock at that position. We haven't had a star mid in the AFL era and it's no coincidence that we've not one a flag in this time.

Btw, any idea how many top 3 picks the Saints had in that team ? Four - Roo, Kosi, Goddard, Ball (2 stars plus 2 A graders). How many stars do we have ? We have a chance at 4 too - Watts, Sylvia, Scully, Morabito/Trengove and throw in Morton at 4 It's too big an opprtunity to let slip. That's if you actually want to see a flag.

Yeah, the 8 out of the last 11 the Tiges won last year was a huge fillip for them coming into 09. And it's not about the players trying to win. We all expect that. It's about getting the best players possible before horrendous draft concessions come in, so that we give this club a chance at a flag. That's if a flag actually appeals to supporters.

The "losing culture" line that gets trotted out is the greatest furphy in sport. A winning culture happens when you've got the best players. And yes, no-one expects the players to be giving anything less than 100%.

Even a club icon in Garry Lyon believes that it's not in the best interests of his former club to lose the PP. If a former club Captain acknowledges that winning is actually losing then you'd think every person at the club would hold the same view. The club will be doing everything in its power, within reason to not win those two games, but ultimately it's not something that you can guarantee such are the vagaries of sport.

There are so many threads on the one topic I'm not sure which one to post in. I watched Bailey closely when he was on 'On the Couch' last night and I came away thinking that he's going to try to manage the best scenario for the club's future. He said all the right things from a PR perspective, but he also added that he's going to keep playing young players, as well as putting them in different positions as an education process, etc. I just got a very strong feeling that he knows how important it is not to win even though he couldn't say as much. Perhaps I was the only one that sensed it. As for beating the teams you refer to; the Swans will want to win. Roos knows the Swans can't afford to be non-competitive due to their unusual market. He also doesn't place as much importance in draft selections. They've got a very staunch leadership group that will walk over hot coals to win. I'm not too worried about that match. Richmond has a caretaker coach who'll be going all out to reverse their loss to us in round 4 as well as impress in his role. They'll be a different propostion to last time and are starting to find form. They could've beaten Carlton if it wasn't for Fevola. I'd back them to win against us. North should be too strong at Etihad and Crocker will want wins. They're already on 4 wins and I doubt they see themselves in pp territory. And in a shallow draft one more selection around pick 20 isn't worth tanking for. Freo will be hard to lose to. And we're also assuming that none of the other teams on 3 wins will jag a win or two. We all play each other. I still reckon that Scully and the PP is well and truly within our grasp.

Go to my 'top 6' thread, or read some of the other threads and you'll get a clear picture of what I want.

I suspected as much, hence the question. We're diametrically opposed on this issue which goes to the core of our differing views. A flag is all that matters to me and having Scully plus a second pick in the top 3 or 4, unquestionably gives us the best chance to develop the top end talent that is necessary to push for a flag. And just on Scully. I saw Rich last year as a junior and have watched him with interest this year. Rich will be an excellent footballer, but Scully is better. That's what is at stake here, plus that second early pick.

I could never blame a supporter for wanting to win, no matter how much I disagree due to the ramifications. But I have a couple of questions for you and others of your ilk. Is a flag the be all and all for you ? How would you feel if you never saw a flag in your lifetime ? (and I accept that you might have, but that doesn't change the question).