Hannabal

If we were playing a Final this week would Sylvia have been picked ?

I have no doubt that winning a flag is the sole reason an AFL club exists. What you've highlighted in your post in no way changes my argument and nor does it insinuate that I begrudgingly admit anything. And if you're not sure whether I've modified my views then ask; don't tell me what I've "admitted". It's a given that playing within the rules set out by the competition's organisers and main body is paramount. And when I say "it's a given" I mean it doesn't need to be stated. Legally you can't win a competition unless you've done so within the parameters set out by the governing body. Ergo it didn't need to be stated and members' wishes are automatically acceded to. Winning a flag within those guidelines is the only reason for an AFL club's existence within that competition. Btw, where do I say that it's the "core" reason ? I've written a lot of words on this thread, so I may well have, but let me confirm that in no way do I shy away from my OP. How could I as it makes perfect sense. Btw, you said that you were "done" earlier when you clearly weren't. Kudos to you.

Yeah, nah. We'll know soon enough, but clubs won't sacrifice their own run by tagging 3 opposition midfielders. They may run a tag, or two - probably one imo, and then let the others go head to head. And when they're head to head some midfielders are more accountable than others, but they won't play 3 mids in purely negating roles.

Norm Smith and his involvement in ten of our twelve flags gave us this proud history. He was ruthless in his quest for premierships. As was his pupil RDB. No disrespect intended, but thankfully he didn't have the views of some on here or perhaps the rich history the club enjoys, and that helped lure you, wouldn't be so evident. And unfortunately that's all it is now - history. When we you lured ? Would your equivalent of today be lured ? Some are more satisfied than others I guess, GD. But I still argue the principal; if winning the competition isn't the sole purpose then you're wasting the competition's time. Better to let someone else have a go.

Some people read what they want to. I'm not advocating cheating of the salary cap; and even if I didn't believe in 'list management' and was like Donny Williams, who wants to win every week for the rest of the year, I wouldn't have a different view. Play fair, be fair, and win a flag. Do all within your power (legally) to win the competition you're competing in. There can be no other goal. It's such a pure ambition and surely why a club competes. Nutshell: Hannibal's view: "a club exists solely to win the annual competition it's entered for the last 113 years. By-products and worthwhile community projects culminate from that very participation, but it's the essence of competing for the flag that is at the core of the very existence of the club."

Three taggers in the one game, Don ?! Won't happen.

There's a reason I used the word "sole" and there's a reason I gave option C. I gave that option for you. I was there in round 22 1987 and it's probably my happiest football memory, closely followed by Viney's opening goal a week later in our first Final at the G since '64. I was there when Lyon towelled up Silvagni and kicked a monster torpedo goal the following year at Waverley. I watched a 16 year old kid from Tasmania called Andy Lovell train with the team at the G in 1986 a year before he joined us. I was there at the infamous '87 prelim. I chatted with Greg Wells, who I loved when I was a kid, at the 150th dinner last year at Crown. I was at a lunch hosted by Stewart Spencer at the G in 1986 when he spelled out the discussions our club had had with potential merger candidates North and Fitzroy; and how difficult it was going to be to survive into the future. Robbie is still my favourite player - and think he probably always will be. I was there voting anti-merger at the Dallas Brooks Hall in August '96. And yes, I've upheld the honour of my team since the playground days when I was 5. I've never taken [censored] from opposition supporters - anyone really. Not every team can win the flag in a given year, as Melbourne supporters know only too well, but the only thing that keeps me passionate is knowing that my club one day might win a flag. It's all that matters to me. Of course there are experiences along the way, which is why I just shared a few, afterall, we're all on a journey. I don't believe that we're a realistic chance for a flag for 5-8 years, but I expect that every decision this club makes will be with a Premiership in mind. If you're unlikely to win in the short-term do all things possible to make it more likely in the medium-term. But it still remains the absolute goal. And for me it's categorical. We're competing in a competition that awards a premiership cup to the winner. Our club can and has done much good in the community, but none of it would have happened unless it was a participant in this hard fought competition. It's sole reason for being in the competition is (should be) to fight to win the flag. It's a pity that so many supporters have lost sight of what is such a basic non-negotiable premise. On another thread did I hear someone talking about "reaping what we sow" ?

No it's not. It's a given that on-going participation is non-negotiable. The word existence is in the poll for a reason. The sole purpose for competing in a competition that rewards the victor with an award is the award itself. Otherwise why enter the competition ? Why keep on fronting up ?. It's called the "Premiership Season" for a reason. Why does a golfer enter a tournament ? Many famous golfers have often said that if they didn't think they could win a tournament then they wouldn't enter it. And each year is a separate year. How long does an AFL licence run ? If you enter the 'Premiership Season' your sole ambition should be to win it. Everything else is a subsidiary for your reason of having the club enter this competition. "Competition" 1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.: The competition between the two teams was bitter. 2. a contest for some prize, honour, or advantage: Unsurprisingly, not all Melbourne fans have a flag as a non-negotiable. It beggars belief, but I suspected as much. Fitzroy is a club today with a member base. It doesn't have the sole reason for its existence as a flag because it doesn't belong to a competition. It doesn't have an AFL licence. Our sole aim should always be to win the competition that we enter. *shakes head*

I think we've established that he was a PP. Thanks Fan. Now scroll up a year to 1998 and tell me what it says next to Des Headland's name ? I'll wait by the computer.

Maybe Old and some others think that the sole reason clubs exist is so that they don't become extinct

I know. The link I pasted is 1997. Have a click.

Yeah, nah. His eyes light up when he sees a post of mine. It's been happening for a while. I think it's the only time he posts. I used the text you mention purely for balance. But, of course, a smart man like you already knows this.

Youre probably right, but I'd feel a little more confident if someone else verified it. I usually find this site pretty accurate. http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_draf...amp;t=N&s=P They list Headland as one in 1998, as well as many others, but not TJ. It makes sense that he was, but this site doesn't categorise him as one. Hence my doubts. ...I feel like I have a cyber stalker...

I don't believe that Johnstone was a PP.

It's a very good question you ask and unsurprisingly no-one has replied. I once thought that McLean would become a tough midfielder. He's not tough at all. Joel Selwood is tough. McLean doesn't even go in hard. It's a very disappointing group of players. Our toughest player is Moloney. Although I'm not sure he's in the "feared" category. No-one is feared.

I think you're trying to argue for the sake of it. Please yourself. Is winning a flag the be all and end all for you as a supporter ? That's the topic question. Now explain where I've been naughty ?

Partly, otherwise why bother doing a poll ? I was also interested in expressing my view. Funny about that. I had a healthy suspicion that a flag wasn't the be all and end all for a number of supporters. As staggering as that is to a number of us.

What would the club's sole goal have been in 1896 ? I've got a sneaking suspicion that they were only concerned about winning the flag. Nothing else. Nothing has changed in my mind.

Not true. I'm often in the minority and it's a place I feel very comfortable. Ask posters like Fan if I mind being in the minority. Also, I tried to make the 3 choices very fair, which is reflected in the voting. Most topics are done to death. I don't remember one quite like this. And that was the "purpose" of the thread.

Obviously the key is when it becomes part of a competition. The Fitzroy Football club is a legal entity today with a membership base. Obviously it doesn't exist to win premierships. Now my turn; why would a club join or become part of a competition - which insinuates 'competing', if its sole goal wasn't to win the competitions highest honour ?

Of course a flag is the sole reason of a competing club existing, but an on-going participation in the competition in question is a given - note the word existing in the OP. Stop wasting my time with silly questions.

I consider these issues by-products of a club's being. Club's exist and compete to win premierships, but obviously with how football has grown further into communities over the last few decades they're in a position to do much more than purely kick a football. But I can't quite understand what a club's objective is if it isn't to be the best team in a given year and win the highest honour of the competition it competes in - a premiership. All things flow from this sole premise. I also don't like the notion of football being a business. It's not, it's a sport. Yes, it needs to be efficient and to be able to generate income, pay bills, etc, but it will always be a sport to me. That's another thread though. Bob, I don't usually answer silly questions. But of course I wouldn't agree to anything that procluded the MFC continueing in the competition. It's the key word for me - c.o.m.p.e.t.i.t.i.o.n.

The club was formed in 1858, but the VFL competition started in 1896 (I think). Once they entered the league they made a decision to compete for the VFL premiership cup. It has to be the sole reason all clubs exist, otherwise why compete ?

What abuse ? I don't consider any of that "abuse". And I'll please myself how I post, Claude. Obviously with consideration to the rules of the site.

It's an unofficial Melbourne Football Club supporters forum. I'm talking AFL footy.