The Reverend

Isn't this why we sacked Bailey and gave Neeld instructions to change the culture and bring the club up to an elite standard? Perhaps he needs to be given the time to complete the job.

Thanks for proving my point. Arrogant [censored]!

Some of "you people" need to consider the objectification of women. I can only assume you're a misogynist as well as an arrogant know-all; and once I put you in that category I can only put you on ignore. Grow up and be a real man instead of behaving like a prepubescent schoolboy.

Says more about Watts than Neeld. I know which one I'd be getting rid of. FFS if the coach can't speak to a player about his performance without worrying about upsetting him then it's time for me to start watching lawn bowls. Perhaps Neeld should run out on the ground and lay some tackles for Watts so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty. Give me a break!

Me too.

This is another case of perception and supposition. Where and when was he any better under Bailey? Sometimes things can be simple. I get well paid in my job. I have an obligation to do what I am told by my boss whether I like it or not. If I don't, I contribute to the weakening of the enterprise. My selfish actions would harm those around me. Football is a team game and everybody has a responsibility to their team mates. That's how simple it is. If you're suggesting Watts has been "hammered" because Neeld has asked him to be as good as he can be and played him in positions he doesn't like, well, I'm sorry but I think that says more about the character of Jack Watts. Having said that, I don't know what the situation really is. Neither do you - it's all supposition until we hear directly from one of the horse's mouths. I'm just tired of all the statements about players and coaches that present things as facts when they are simply perceptions and, even worse, prejudice.

What about relevant to how much he's being paid? In the end he's being paid as a professional - he should behave like one. Just because I don't like my boss, doesn't mean I'm not expected to earn my pay. Pretty simple really.

You're easily pleased.

That's the sort of response I was expecting. All you guys do is speculate and offer it up as "fact". It's time for some objectivity. I'm not arguing that Neeld is the saviour but he needs to be given time to do the job he was employed to do. Simple. And yes, I've been to every home game and watched all of the others on TV. I've gotta say I don't pay a lot of attention to the written stuff. My faith in sports journalism has been shaken a little of late. You only have to look at how the press has now turned on the Bulldogs. It's all just sensationalist claptrap. In the end I prefer to observe and make judgement based on what can be substantiated. I agree, our results would indicate that Neeld needs to lift his game. The way the team is playing would suggest there is a lack of self-confidence and trust in team mates. If you want to argue that the players are not playing for the coach that's fine but how do you know it's because Neeld has lost their confidence? I think it says more about them than it does Neeld. If professional sportsmen lack the integrity to do what they're paid for I don't think there's too many coaches who could do much with them - apart from culling the recalcitrants and I suspect this process is playing out as we speak. A good number of the current crop will not be with us next year. Just accept it's going to take some time and stop demanding overnight success. It's not going to happen. No matter how much you scream for Neeld's blood, there is no real alternative at the moment.

Please let us know how you know this. This has become a theme with many posters but I'm yet to hear any proof that this is the case. Where is the evidence? And don't just say it's obvious.

186 was putting us in the hunt for finals?

Did you ever consider that what he's saying might be the truth of the situation? The truth hurts but until we face it we are not going to start doing the hard work that needs to be done. How does what Neeld says indicate he's out of his depth? It seems to me he's being very clear about the magnitude of the task ahead and is not selling false hope. I still believe that when things turn around they will turn pretty quickly and that a lot of us are going to have to eat some humble pie. It might not be pleasant but the facts are the facts. If he came out each week and raised expectations with false bravado we'd be complaining just as loudly.

Thanks for this. Made my day. We could use some of that Flower magic right about now.

In 1960, at the age of eight I decided to defy the family tradition of following Hawthorn. I was tired of trudging down to Glenferrie Oval with my grandfather only to see them beaten week after week. Who was winning pretty consistently at the time? Melbourne. Off with the hand-knitted Hawthorn jumper and on with the red and blue. Have I regretted the decision? Not until last Sunday! Will I quit the Demons? Never!

Yesterday might have been the tipping point. I still believe things will get better but I'm not sure I want to watch any more for a while.

Jesus Christ himself would struggle to get this lot over the line. Time to change my avatar I think.

Couldn't let it pass. That's it though I'm done for now on this topic. I might start a new thread on something important like the issue of Jeremy Howe's beard and whether it might hinder his high-flying escapades..

Like sacking coaches and letting players decide what they'll do?

I'm talking about a culture that transcends the current playing list. It has become ingrained. I don't know why people can't see this. Do you only read the bits you want to argue with? I'm not defending Neeld. I've said he may not be the right person. I'm not arguing to keep him regardless. I'm saying that the problem is bigger than Neeld. I've worked in organisations where a culture established fifty years before was still impacting on decision making and stunting growth; despite management changes and staff turnover. You have to root out the problem before it will go away. I'm not even sure it can be done at MFC. I'm just certain that if these players are allowed to keep killing coaches nothing will ever change. 14 players is not half a list. Would you really have kept Cale Morton? Would you have hung on to Gysberts? Did Jamie Bennell ever fill you with hope? Liam Jurrah self-destructed and Lucas Cook was never going to make it. Jai Sheahan? Kelvin Lawrence? Yes, we lost some experience and some talent, but in the end, if they ask to go, it's better they leave. Neeld has not finished building his list. He's in the middle of a three year list re-build. Don't reply. I'm done with this stuff for a while. I'm at the point of not caring any more. I promise not to post any more "out and out rubbish."

As a good friend of mine likes to say, "You just can't make strawberry jam out of camel shite." Yeah, it's the coach's job to motivate but when you're dealing with a culture that has seen the last three coaches sacked I think it's time to tell the players to get stuffed and fix things up. Sacking the coach, whoever it might be just reinforces a culture in which players refuse to accept responsibility for their own performance. What do you think will happen under a new coach? Will these blokes actually grow a pair and turn into men? Can't see it! When the youngest player in the team leads the way in desire and effort, it speaks volume for the intestinal fortitude of many on our list. Go ahead, sack Neeld and appease the supporters, but don't expect it to make a difference until we fix the real problem.

Yeah, I saw that. It hasn't passed by unnoticed. My point is that if we sack Neeld we are still left with players who lack the drive to do their bit in this debacle. Six of them could not even execute one tackle for the game. Given we were chasing the Suns all day you'd reckon we might have been able to do better than that. This is a pretty basic skill - grab someone and hold on. We apparently spent a lot of time practising it over the pre-season. These clowns are killing their coach and killing the club. How is a fill-in coach going to address this simple fact? Please don't tell me it's because Neeld has upset them. I've played football under coaches who were nothing but pricks. [censored] with no credentials other than having the right mates. It made no difference to me and how I played the game. My pride was at stake every time I went on the field. I might not have had silky skills but I cared enough to give it my best effort at every contest, despite the coach. Neeld might well be the wrong man for the job but if we're ever going to change the poor player culture at Melbourne it's time to send some messages. Sacking the coach is not the right message at this point in time. It's a quick fix to a long term problem. Let's start making players accountable. I don't care if we don't win another game as long as we don't give games to the pea-hearts on our list. These guys have to know that pulling on the jumper is an honour. I'm sick of seeing it defiled by tossers who won't even run to make a contest.

Not all of us have been supporting Neeld as such. Some of us have been presenting an argument for patience and cool heads. Some of us have not belittled other posters in making these points. Interesting that you do exactly what you accuse others of doing. It's not necessarily weak to stay quiet and think things through before making a comment. These are dark times for the club. Nothing is gained from hot-headed argument. Let's keep it rational and support the club. If change is to be made let's make it for the right reasons, with good evidence to support the decision.

There is another category you've neglected. Those of us who have simply argued that more time is needed before we judge. Some of us have done this without belittling other posters. Your post is just as belittling as it implies weakness not to have posted something.. kettles... black? From my point of view, I'm waiting for the dust to settle. If you'd asked me at 3/4 time yesterday I would have done more than sack him. In the cold hard light of day I want someone to tell me what are the alternatives that will guarantee we move forward. We can't afford to slip further backwards.

Why feel sorry for the players. Their actions on the field of play are of their choosing. Regardless of the coach's strengths or weaknesses the players choose whether to chase and tackle. These guys are simply not playing like AFL footballers. I have no sympathy for these coach-killers.

I thought I warned you about this sort of radical truth-telling. MODS!!! Get him outa here before this place starts making sense.