Demon Dynasty

https://www.zerohanger.com/hanger-trade-grade-sam-frost-35819/amp/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Zero%2BHanger&__twitter_impression=true

Langdon is a big step up and Tomo should be handy. But was hoping for two Ron. A decent goal kicking KF / clever mobile medium forward as well as a proven genuine small crumber. Might have to wait till next trade in 2020.

I agree demonzz. I think Goody & the FD did also but didn't get over the line with Elliot. If wishes were horses i still would've liked to see a back up trade play for someone though. Maybe a Butler. Just someone with experience coming out of a solid club (culture/system). Puopolo? Maybe even a Gunston for the around the goal mobility and smarts. The Frosty trade should have included something along these lines even if it meant giving another lower pick and/or a player in the vein of what they are looking for (ruckman...was Pruess an option?). Part of the solution in this also lies in forward craft and players learning their role / craft effectively to drag opponents away from hot zones and leading lanes of KFs etc. Making a crowded forward line that we are so used to seeing....less crowded, thereby opening up opportunities for speedsters to crumb like Hannan & Hunt as well as other opportunist crumbers (Melk, Lockhart, Chandler?).

I'm not saying he totally ignores the outside at midfield (bounce / 666) & stoppage side DJ. A more balanced mix inside / outside and improvement in structures and set ups around the stoppages will no doubt help. Reckon he would have learned that he can't ignore this aspect after such poor results at the G and most teams finding us out in this regard this season. The players also need to play their part in the fitness and learnings to ensure they are setting up and structuring up around the contest more quickly, more effectively and more often than this season. An improvement has to come. I just can't see another year like this for some time provided we don't relax and get happy. As to how big an improvement who's to say. Get the tea cup out maybe!

This tends to fit with the Goody mantra/method/belief of "weight of numbers at/around the contest" (yes even inside 50) and weight of numbers coming inside 50 will win out more often than not. I guess he is gambling that we will get enough numbers at the drop often enough in 2020 with a massive pre-season in and a mostly fit top 25 to 28 available. If this works out we see a solid bounce back in 2020. If it doesn't then still a bounce/improvement but nothing to write home about. Might take a second round of 'trading in the right mix' and filling some gaps, plus maturing of the younger brigade in 2020, before we see anything that resembles anything like a 2018. 2021 might be the year we truly blossom.

DS i think you are missing a few aspects here in terms of what a player contributes to the team overall from things other than the scoreboard. Regardless i would have killed for the sort of numbers Hogan produced in 2018 during this season gone. Second in goal kicking averages (2.35) only behind T-Mac (2.82). He was also 'involved' in general play quite a bit, much of it up the ground, ranked third in average score involvements (7.55) with T-Mac No.1 again (7.71) & Clarry second (7.59). He was also holding the ball inside 50 for us for longer periods. Third on marks inside 50 averages (2.10) behind ANB (4.82) and T-Mac (2.88). Contested marking also to a degree.... fifth (1.20) behind Gawn (2.27), T-Mac (1.65), Weid (1.57) and Pedders (1.25). I have to agree with OD here, there's a helluva lot of "hope" riding on Weid as back up to T-Mac in 2020. Fingers crossed our trade period isn't quite done and we are still in the hunt for someone like a Gunston, Bruce or, if those two fail, Jenkins as a last gasp stop gap / insurance buy (on the cheap). Weids may well step up but it's too big a gamble without a 3rd genuine option (assuming we are not drafting in any experienced small/s as Mahoney suggested).

To a point Wise. I think we were pretty cooked in general after the Hawks match. I doubt Hogan would have dented a 10 goal thumping much but might have been a better foil up forward and pushing high for general marking and ball control, helping settle things down a bit earlier than half time! Hulk's better work earlier on in the season certainly helped us secure a final's berth though. Taking the No.1 defender away from T-mac and the No.2 off Weid was also handy and the fact these two copped the better defenders of Meth coke probably also impacted on the poor result in the wash up.

If we split the pick i doubt we get Serong D11. Probably goes at 4 or 5.

Hope doesn't win big games of footy SW. How many times have i seen or heard this "she'll be right" mantra from the FD / club. Danners another after our 2000 thumping against the Drugsters and look how that turned out. Haven't been back to the big dance in 19 attempts. Thumped by approx the same amount 18 years later in a prelim and although severely impacted in off season and opps we appeared to be a bit too happy with our lot (attitude wise) according to Lewis. I truly hope i am proven wrong and have no doubts we will see a bounce back from a very low base next year but i'm over this sort of thinking.

....AFL.com.au understands Butler will walk for next to nothing, with the Tigers well aware of St Kilda's long list of demands this Telstra AFL Trade Period. Butler, who is currently holidaying with Tigers teammates, has met with several clubs including the Saints and Carlton. His manager Alex McDonald of Hemisphere Management revealed to Telstra AFL Trade Radio this week he was forced to clarify mixed messaging from the Blues this week around his client. Blues GM of List Management and Strategy Stephen Silvagni said on Monday the Blues had little interest in Butler, only minutes before list manager Michael Agresta admitted the club was still working through a process around the small forward. Should the Blues miss out of Sydney target Tom Papley, their intent for Butler could increase again. Richmond's asking price falls in line with deals it did last year for Corey Ellis and Anthony Miles (combined for a swap of future third-round picks with Gold Coast), Sam Lloyd (pick 64) and Tyson Stengle (68). We aren't even bothering with this one if you believe Mahony today but still think it's a bit of a shame given how cheap he would come. Butler isn't a stand out but if we aren't looking to grab a KF or medium mobile tall in the draft we are placing alot of faith in the present crop of players, including some returning from injury, and betting they will all stand up in 2020. We have pick 26 sitting there which is a big jump on a 4th or 5th rounder being spoken of for Butler from the Aints. Probably paying too much with that pick but if he came cheap enough?

Emphasis on 'probably' Bing. Everyone uses different methods, colours and techniques when painting a landscape. Usually whatever is more pleasing for themselves. I'm no exception! Only those within the inner sanctum & Frosty himself will know what the landscape truly looked like in reality at various points in time.

That was probably after his papers were stamped Bin. If so not good form but there was possibly no turning back and decided to put the boots in. He wouldn't be the first. I still recall Willow flipping the bird to the MCC faithful in his first match against us at the G after departing to join the Saints. It was very clear to all that he wasn't welcome nor wanted from where i was sitting Bin. No offer was ever tabled and club (Mahoney) made it clear they weren't fussed about him going... “We’ve been having some conversations with Sam and indicated that we have a contract there for him, but we weren’t prepared to offer one at the time,” Mahoney said. (in other words we aren't interested in him staying) “What Sam did was he made the most of his opportunities,” Mahoney said. “He got opportunities through some injuries to our players. (downplaying his impact) “We’ve invested pretty heavily in our key defensive roles in the last few trade periods, with Jake Lever, Steven May. We’ve got Oscar McDonald, Harrison Petty, Marty Hore, who’ve all played those roles through the year. (He's not that good...we will easily cover him). “I can understand why people are questioning that, but we make decisions not just off a season of 2019. “It’s over long-term decisions and if Sam’s not here next year, that’s what it’ll be based off.” (Pretty much stamped his papers). All i'm saying is...no need for half of that. Just say "at this stage Sam is a required player but he is OOC and we are in discussions and we will be trying to find a happy medium".... or similar. There were certainly no issues with most of his team mates (although May might have voted otherwise!). Lucifer's Hero 14,921 #114 Posted August 28 Frosty has been nominated as the club's 'Most Courageous' player by his team mates. It is part of the MV player awards. MVP Nominees He is quite fearless, how he throws himself around. Quite an honour. Nothing better than respect from teammates. But there were also rumblings that he might have shot himself in the foot as well and gotten ahead of himself. Might have put a few noses out of joint within the FD and around the admin/club in general as a result... longsuffering 852 #118 Posted August 28 Was told a couple of games back that Frosty loves being at the Club but felt that his game had improved and that it should be reflected in his contract offer. I like so many others love his enthusiasm but my heart still stops when he gets the ball waiting momentarily to see what he will bring. Thankfully there have been fewer of the car crashes this year. Glad that it looks like a compromise has been reached or the Club has recognised his improvement this year.

No issues with the trade itself Bin. However, was it a well managed player relationship? I have my doubts on that. Never air your dirty laundry in public always holds true. And none less so at trade time. Just play the game with a smile and try and max what's coming back. Had we done that i think we come out in a neutral position with either a ready made experienced (excess) Hawk player or if that wasn't happening, slightly better on the numbers given he did finish top 10. Rumours are just rumours until proven otherwise Bin. If you wish to latch on to them to back your rationale then all power to you. We all rate players differently and while Frost was no match winner and had his flaws i thought his result this season justified a slightly better result on this transaction. Because everyone rates a player differently we will all come up with various rationale to justify our position and in many cases the varying rationale will never be agreed to or it might depending on an observer's view of said player. And i'm not saying we were given a severe rodgering up the khyber pass either....just bent over and given a bit of spanking. No harm done and we move on.

Great result on this. Would have got done regardless of the Hawthorn second rounder but we don't lose much. Possibly the Bell factor and the fact the Dockers are probably eyeing the draft a little more than us coming in to play. Ed a solid acquisition and starts to bed down the bigger grounds somewhat. Now for either a big bodied KF/or mobile medium plus a genuine pressure small (Butler?). Then nab Dylan Stephens at the draft and we are looking in alot better shape.

Thanks EO ...just calling that deal as i see it. Others including yourself will no doubt be ecstatic and others on the fence. That's life!

I very much doubt Freo takes a future second rounder valued at roughly 45 to 50 for Langdon. They might take it as 'part of' the deal. Get serious guys. This was a loss whichever way you cut it in terms of what isn't coming back. At the very least should have got a mid to late 30s pick in this draft and, barring that, Gunston as part of the shitty trade we agreed to. Top 10 in the B&F and we let him go for nix! Hawthorn have bent us over on this one.

I'm a huge fan 56 ....if, like many on our list, he can lower his vision more often & clean up his kicking...he might take it to the next level. If that wasn't a factor he would nudging towards A grade by now. Sitting at B- ish now imv.

Shhhhh don't spoil it jnr!

Some are saying we wont fit under our cap but if we did $650k and the Dockers cover say $150k and get pick 3...i reckon they'd be more than happy with that. We have Lewis, Stretch, Frosty, Bull Smith and JKH off the list already. Imagine Hill on one wing and Langdon on the other.

Yes rjay but more ground vs air i reckon.... Reminds me a little of Tulip. Having said that, Tulip was a pretty good airialist as well.

How about $800k and Bell pitches in $150k each year on a three year deal?

I know it also comes down to player/manager but i think a [censored] off Bell (with last night's GWS swap slap) might be VERY happy to do the double....and foot a small part of the bill!! See above FD

This should be ours....

Barrett: The Dees have picks 3 and 22, can they get both Brad Hill and Ed Langdon out of the Dockers with those picks? LISTEN: https://t.co/y0GSLLkU3o WATCH: https://t.co/QdiGlJy8Ir #AFLTrade What u reckon guys....