nutbean

Its called expiry of contract and you end up in the preseason draft if you dont want to recommit. If he was contracted we could either trade him or even dig the heels in and suggest he plays for us or nobody(pointless). Nothing new here.

I dont like to go quite as hard as that but there is nothing to disagree with here. We are an easy target because we have provided so much ammunition. Start winning games and keep a tight lid on what we do and the press turns around in a hurry.

His disposal wasnt that bad - he just looked horrific in his action.

What about Bluey's Bluey ? 1/Whitey - if he was still at the club - those B#$tards who axed him 2/ Robbo - if he was still at the club - those B#$tards who axed him 3/ Wheats - if he was still at the club - those B#$tards who axed him 4/ Wheels - if he was still at the club - those B#$tards who axed him 5/ Brucey - if he was still at the club - those B#$tards who made him leave

I am a firm believer that its not the recruiting but that we have never developed the recruits - there are plenty examples of skinny recruits who have filled out, instant success stories and players who have developed from good to really good to star material. It is for this reason I think that Neeld has come in and said Moloney/Green/Davey-we are not accepting half arsed any more - over a period of time players will understand the required level and always be challenged to continually strive to be better (I should live so long !) Whichever way you slice it, poor recruiting or poor development, the end result has been the same - we have a lot recruits over a long period that have generally not made the grade and now we are devoid of the necessary mid to older range players to usher in the youth.

I compared JM against Cameron Ling and taking into account a couple of factors, he stacks up ok. The Cats were the kings of flicking the ball around so it is a fair comparison. Lings disposal was better but Geelongs spread was far superior to us giving Ling easier targets. JM averaged 17 disposals, CL 21. CL has a couple of extra marks but a couple less tackles. A point I have made before, that Jordie would have looked lovely behind Ablett and Bartel (and others) in the Geelong midfield exactly as Ling did.

Firstly - I wouldn't think any of would know exactly what approaches were and werent made as many are done in season when they shouldn't be. To me it is not so much about due digilence but more about getting the hands dirty. Freo (Note - from all reports!) - did no due diligence but just went out and got their man - whilst it way harsh, it was ballsy and I like Ballsy. I like the way we went and got big Mitch who was heading back to WA and I like the way we grabbed the fitness guru. Figure what you want and go get it. No doesnt necessarily mean no.

Because they have lots of good footballers in the mid to senior range and we don't. As good as you might believe the WCE kids are, the reason for their step up over the last two years is their experienced players return to form (back from injury) combined with kids coming through. We have had Moloney,Davey,Green and Jamar (I mark him a let less harshly because of injury) showing our kids the way. Of all our senior players only Rivers gets a bare pass mark this year. Nathan Jones has just entered the phase of his career that he can be agreat influence on the kids. That dingbat Wallace kept banging on about a premiership clock based on age and games played of the list. A dingbat yes but history proved his theory in all bar the recent Hawks GF win.

This is what I find amusing - I talk to a couple of my close WCE mates and they think that their recruiting is ordinary and cant fathom how they took Lycett and Brennan in that draft. They are happy with Darling but bemoan the other two. They look at Howe and McDonald and how we got it right and tell us how our recruiting is better than theirs.

I'll give a serious answer. There are players on the all lists that fall into two categories - developing and what you see is what you get .There are always late bloomers and certain exceptions but I use 23 as the demarcation line. So we should look at our over 23 year olds (what you see is what you get) and mark their cards -a simple yes or no. Under 23 is a little more difficult as you need to use a little more imagination - body filling out, more preseasons and upside - I give more leeway to your bigger blokes as history shows you that they take more time to develop - the smaller types like Bennell and Jetta should be starting to show something by 3rd - 4th season in. This is generalisation but that is my attempt at a serious response - no excuses - just a logical approach to the list.

disagree - I dont think you can get much improvement from him - the players we need improvement from are the ones who should be, could be (arent) game breakers - Sylvia, Blease, Frawley etc- give me improvement from those types of players over JM any day .

Want me to heat it up a bit. Over the last 6 weeks WCE is 16th in the AFL for clearances from throw ins and ball ups (source-Finey last night on SEN dodgy ).Thecomment was made that with Cox doing most work forward,NN in the ruck tapping down the throat is limited at best. I immediately thought- sayyyyyyy I might add this to the thread. Carry on.

Therein lies our problem. Don't get me wrong I am a fan of his fearless attack on the contest but if we are to be a good side JM cannot be in the top 4 of the Bluey.

I just dont see it progressing anywhere- but then again 856444644646 Scully posts went pretty much the same way (for what its worth I still think he'll stay)

I disagree - good organisations have good leaders that lead horses to water,cajole them to drink even insist with some force that they drink -but if they dont drink then the leadership group goes to the coach (if he is presumably unaware) and says that player X is not prepared to put in the hard yards that the other 40 players on the list are - hopefully the coach (and Neeld seems of the ilk) will say- play at Casey until you work as others do. I led a company and was very easy going and would work to get the best outcomes but there was always the underlying bottom line which was "fifo"- fit in or f%##$% off.

Sigh....I yearn for a return to the days of TGR (pure nutbean)

Dont start me on the man who does Gardens.

This is where we have no insight into leaders and leadership group - we say we want X or Y in the leadership group because of what we seeof their on field exploits but off field is as important if not more so. I want a leader that may not necessarily be the best or most skillful player in our team but a player that does everything in his power to ensure he has left no stoned unturned to be the best prepared to extract every last inch of talent out of himself and gives his all to execute this on field. Furthermore, I want a leader that leads on and off field by the example of how hard they are prepared to work but who also have the balls that if examples are not being followed by others voluntarily, then step up to the plate have the balls and take issue with player and demand that the player step up. You may not be able to make a footballer drink after you led to him water but the leadership groups role is to keep his head underwater until he takes great bloody mouthfuls. (way too many cliches)

Sorry,I take exception with your no doubt at all. I cannot comment at all about the effort those skinny boys put in in the gym but you are aware that no two peoples are the same and you are aware that there are body types that just cannot bulk up ? I saw Matty Lappin at a social function about two years ago and he said he was the curse of the Carlton weight room. No matter what they tried he could not bulk up.He pumped more weights than anyone but as soon as he went on the track to keep his fitness level up the 100gms of muscle fell off.

Agreed- because it is "our" money and "our" club no matter how kosher it is "we" (meaning lots of members) will ask - is this the best use of "our" money - the meat might be alright but it has a bad odour to it

damn glad I have never owned up to watching Lingerie football league (once...ok...twice....damn it ...tape it every time and watching it on endless loop..)

you have to or you'd slash your wrists

I'm getting ready to be slammed with this answer as there is no black and white/ yes or no for me. So here goes. Do I hate losing ? You bet. Will I give constructive criticism on the team, administration and coaches when I see something that in my opinion warrants it ? You bet. Overall I have not enjoyed watching us this year but nearly every game I find something to bring to a smile to my face and get me excited even for a fleeting moment. A Howe mark, Jones hitting a pack at full pace, some Tommy Mc moments or some minutes of what looks like coherent football.I love watching those duds just run out on the ground (sometimes thats the only enjoyment for the match). I need to enjoy something or I would stop going. Now before I am knived - I am not satisfied nor content with what we are showing - but if I didnt find something each week to bring a tiny bit of joy then I couldnt back up the next week. Let the lynching commence.

On a Thursday night I go to bed and dream about playing every position of every Melbourne footballer against quality opposition. Alas by the end of the weekend the Thursday night dreams bear no resemblance to reality.(I will say my dreams are crying out for a decent forward pocket)

all you need to do is look at the paper tomorrow morning and look at all the forward pockets and see how many have made this easy position their own -Milne ? Ballantyne ?