Webber

Terrific development, considering not just the fact that women's footy has been the fastest growing participant sport in Australia for the past 5 years, but that gender balance in club support and membership is one of the key points of difference in our game. Amazing in some ways that it's taken this long. It's also interesting that as the two 'foundation' clubs, MFC and the Bulldogs are the two Victorian clubs that have gone the longest time without a flag. Coincidence?! Well done DEES for your forward thinking and social responsibility. A great present day reward for having codified the sport back in 1858. There is no football without the Melbourne Football Club.

Nailed it. He makes our forward line much better when fit and tearing around drawing defenders to him. He frees up Hogan and Watts, and the small forwards love being around him at the contest. If Jeffy could get back with form and intent, then we're talking goals aplenty. Probably not this week though I'd say.

His appetite for the contest and fearlessness still surprises me for some reason. He has a competitive ferocity which very much symbolises what this new group is about. Not to derail the Hunt praise, but Jack Watts is the same now. He doesn't just compete, he relishes the contests!

Given that the fixture changes every year, one year hard, the next easier, and so on, that's simply not true.

Gold Coast only game with a strong hope. Carlton are a better team, and we have an inherent inability to beat St. Kilda, particularly at Docklands. Freo are finally finding some form. Possibly a win on Monday. Any of the other games would be wildly against the odds. Bizarre as it is, we will likely finish on the seven wins we snagged last year, or possibly one less on six. The worrying thing is not that we haven't improved, as we have, but that it won't be seen as such by the less aware observers, thus hurting our membership build. The other concern is that as consistently the youngest team in the AFL, we will drop off badly as we run out of puff. It's going to be a tough second half of the season.

Vanders is a classic tease player at the mo. He hasn't had enough of an injury free run at it this or last year to consolidate, but shows signs of being exactly the type of player every club loves. Big, fast, hard, a good mark and with footy nous. But he just doesn't get enough of it. He's young, but looks late twenties, so I think we expect a lot of him. He's another that will become immeasurably better when he gets to 50 games. I think the club love him for that upside, and I think he did enough on the weekend to stay in.

I like your optimism AF. Care to predict them?

You're being way too sensible for an impatient and often ignorant commentariat, IDIG. I agree with all you say, but because we will finish on 7 or 8 wins again and similar ladder position, having been passed by Carlton and possibly St.Kilda, there'll be a lot of unnecessary explaining and defence of our seeming lack of progress. We are clearly on the way, but only a minority are going to see it unfortunately. It's a numbers driven world, and our superficial numbers are going to suggest we are going nowhere.

Losing battle Wiseblood. His card is marked by some on here regardless of evidence or I suspect future form to the contrary. I've said it on here before, so excuse me if you've read it, but I had a long chat to Jesse Hogan's dad last year at the last game (GWS, Etihad), by pure chance as both he and I were floating around the ground level area and I'd praised Jesse for a good goal, to which he, standing next to me, offered 'that's my son'. Sounds odd I know, but he then talked a lot about Jesse growing up, etc. was very interesting. Jesse's favourite person at the club to have next to him in the forward line is Chris Dawes, because of his presence, footy smarts, physicality and work rate. Still, he's a dud apparently.

Just what I was thinking Wiseblood. There's a certain lack of objectivity in his polarity of opinions on Dawes and OMac. I thought they both played their roles yesterday. OMac is tracking very well relative to his height and age, but will take time, and it's time that the selectors are clearly prepared to give him. Dawes mobility and physicality is going to be a big boost to our structure if he can stay on the park for the rest of the season.

Good positives from today. It's hard to believe Jayden Hunt has only played a handful of games. The boy is gutsy, has sure hands and a quick mind, and then there's the pace. Same things to say about Billy Stretch and Christian Petracca. Good returns from Dawes and Trenners. If Dawes stays fit, he makes the forward line opportunities for Jeffy (when it's dry!), Kent, Petracca and Kennedy (when in form) much better. Trenners showed his smart reading and disposal and got the feel of the game more as it went on. It's great to see him back out there. Dom Tyson was best on ground today, he is vital to our midfield, and hasn't reached his ceiling. Oscar MacDonald showed why the club rates him. For his height he's actually developing quickly. He's going to be a very good player. Watching Sam Frost down back was just a big sigh of relief. Big, competitive, fast, thats his spot, leave him there. He made some disposal errors, as does Josh Wagner, but they look like long term backliners to me. The rest we know about. The Hawks were always going to ease out the game in the last quarter with their cool heads, it was that predictable. Bernie Vince needs to pull his head in and the umpires need to stop awarding dangerous and dishonest ducking behaviour now. It's an absolute blight on football.

Utter garbage AF. He presented and at least broke even at every marking contest on an appalling day for marking forwards. There was not one marking opportunity he had that wasn't contested. He was physical and brought others into the game. The kind of hyperbole you spit is simply ridiculous.

Pretty sure he said just that. As I said, I understand the reason for the inclusions, but we shouldn't expect much from either Frost or Vandenberg, although Frost down back is an interesting proposition. Vandenberg I get for the physical pressure, but his actual ball work has been underwhelming thus far in his career, particularly considering he was brought to the club on the back of a high possession game. And if that's not the role they're looking for him to play then ok, but so far he's a fringe player with a big body and a great tackle. If I'm being kind, maybe this week shows they're being adaptable with selection. All will be revealed.

Who knows how these inclusions will perform, but the worrying thing is that Roos has completely contradicted his mantra that form is the primary factor to guaranteeing a game. As such, Vandenberg and Frost have no form to justify their inclusion. I get that they're big and physical, but that's another thing entirely. Dawes, Trenners and Oliver I get, but there's a lack of consistency in selection policy at the moment that reeks of panic. Whether it works or not.....

As unpopular as it might be BA, I reckon Lumumba and Matt Jones were best 22 before injury, obviously Brayshaw, and for me, Dawes, although I hope he plays Saturday.

Having at least six of our best 22 out with injury, including our culture setter and 'on field leader' is not going to go well for us. I fear an almighty shellacking coming up and a complete collapse of our improving trend and season. I hope to be wrong, but this game has disaster written all over it. Max, Chunk, and ???? need to stand up big time. Trengove and Dawes must come in.

I like your optimism Abe, and agree with much, but the point the article makes and what we can all see every week, but particularly in games like Saturday's, is that we are horrifically easy to expose on transition. The stat about oppo goals scored from inside 30 metres illustrates the point. Along with many on here, I don't think this comes down to age or experience (which much of our fragility does), but is instead a fundamental tactical flaw. I'm all for tactical innovation and progress, but this diamond defence, or whatever you want to call it, seems destined for the bin. And I think without Jack Viney this Saturday, our most important player, our clearance and contested possession king, an almighty flogging at the hands of the best ball users in the AFL might just speed up that process.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/30/fear-of-another-false-dawn-lingers-at-melbourne-after-demons-loss-in-alice Sums us up pretty well I think, but the defensive horror remains a longer term concern.

In The Guardian this morning. Thoughts?

The last player we could afford to lose, sadly. Not only is he our midfield grunt now, but he sets the culture for competitiveness. That and the fact that oppo teams now know how to expose our defensive shambles means it's going to get very very ugly this Saturday, and not much better for the next 4 weeks. All of a sudden getting to last year's seven wins is looking like a good result for the year I reckon.

Not today my friends. In fact it's gonna get very ugly after halftime.

Billy Stretch is, and was from the moment he arrived at the club one of those natural footballers who see the game faster and a step ahead of the others. This cannot be taught. Then he backs it up with disposal and toughness (the two things which take more time). We're developing a good number of players with that natural unteachable talent now, and they're going to form the kind of 'family' that Geelong and Hawthorn have most recently had. It's hard not to get excited about this, and Billy Stretch will be right in the middle of it along with Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, etc.

Could almost say we're looking a bit forward heavy for the future.

To be fair, the holding the ball/disposal issue is one that has been the big flaw in our game since it was conceived. It is impossible to adjudicate with complete adherence to the law every time. There's too much interpretation involved. It will always be frustrating. What would be nice however is consistency at least between the umpires on the ground, and ideally from week to week, something which is woefully absent. As for the deliberate out of bounds rule, I was glad to see it abandoned yesterday, except for the double palmed 10 metre shovel across the line yesterday by a dogs player that would have been a free kick paid against any other year since 1858.

What a reality check. Never a contest and the Dogs' control was never threatened. Too many passengers, and Bernie Vince needs to wake up to himself. Some internal discipline maybe? Fumbly from the start because of their pressure, overused handball and seldom gave to players' advantage. The biggest worry though is that we are suddenly very weak down back when the opposition have big marking tall forwards and quick entry from the transition. It used to be a well served area for us, now it's our most glaring weakness. I shudder to think what West Coast, Adelaide, the Swans and Geelong are going to do to us. With all our improvement, I think there might be some horrible beatings to come from here on in. Also, unless the AFL start adjudicating on the dropping to the knees for high tackle free kicks and the deliberate throwing, many games will become frustratingly unwatchable. Clearly there was no attention paid to the Dogs free kick disparity from head office.