P-man

Agreed. Whilst he was on there he was quit impressive. If fit, Bail keeps his spot. That said, Watts and Blease would be pretty important inclusions this week. Perfect opportunity for them to get some confidence back into their game.

"Go back and look at (Tom) Hawkins. Geelong were probably nearly going to say, 'Look, I think we'll move on and go for someone else,' and then he pulls a game out in the Grand Final and wins a premiership for them" Tomahawk is also a key position player, Sheeds. Thus it was expected he would take a bit longer. Clearly he's not going to come out and write off his million dollar man, but I reckon there'd be some doubts lingering in the old brain. That special weapon of the running tank looked pretty impressive when competing against teenagers, but perhaps not so much when running against fully matured athletes where endurance is an expectation.

Neeld may not be much chop, but he's also an easy target right now without results on the board, and I'd much rather listen to him talk about football than King or McClure. McClure especially is just a lazy old git. Puts zero research into forming his "opinions". He's a fool to be laughed at, not listened to seriously. King at least puts in some research, but his inflated opinion of himself doesn't match what he has to say, which is often rubbish.

I think most of us are. I can't bring myself to toss mine out.

Agree with this. I got a personalised response to my email from Georgina, carrying the title of "Customer Relations Officer". Would be a bloody horrible job at this point in time, and yet she and the office team still manage to respond to most emails and deal with what would for the most part be a very frustrated mob. I tip my hat to them.

I'm done talking about this and have requested the thread be locked.

No Ron, it wasn't, but you believe what you like pal. At no stage have I stated outright that we made a mistake in picking Toumpas because to do so after 3 games is clearly short sighted. This was an off the cuff thought that occurred to me whilst watching the Adelaide game, which I thought I'd share on here. If I had any idea it was cause this degree of angst and result in me being labelled a disgrace to Melbourne supporters, I never would've shared it.

Not a crack at Toumpas, far more leaning towards "how good is Wines?" I don't know how I can be any more explicit about that. I've said it how many times in the thread now? Five? Not. A. Crack. At. Toumpas. [censored] this. Talk amongst yourselves.

FFS. Clearly I've overestimated the ability of some Demonlanders to take a question in the spirit it was intended. I was watching Ollie Wines tear up his third game of AFL, after two very impressive displays prior to that, and the question popped into my head which I shared on a whim for some input on here, as you would chatting down the local. It's been met with ridicule and big noting from certain posters. Others at least have put some thought into their response. Mods you can lock this thread if you wish. I can't see it being beneficial from here.

Felt that your input was worth bumping it up though, obviously.

I will request to be knocked out and woken up around October.

Yeah, that's a reasonable reaction C&B....lol wow. titan - I understand that has been read into it, perhaps justifiably so. It wasnt my intention. It was little more than "wow, this kid's an absolute jet, did we miss a big opportunity?", and it's turned into "disgrace and embarrassment" "lock and delete!" Delete it if you like. I couldn't care less.

Big, tough words as usual, titan. I never asserted that we made a mistake. The jury will officially be out for some time, and the OP may be a bit too strongly worded given it was written whilst i was watching him tear Adelaide a new one. That said, the impressiveness of Wines' start to his career, and I can't recall another one quite like it, combined with where we are at currently as opposed to where we expected to be at, lends itself to a discussion on the subject, which then goes onto where our focus should be in the next draft etc. If you find it embarrassing, don't participate in it.

Hey McFlurry, how good has Viney looked in a side 320 points down for the season instead of undefeated in second place?

Comprehension skills need work. I never said they had gone ahead of us, I said that scenario is not acceptable. That said, on the evidence of the first 3 weeks, dont be too shocked if the Giants beat us next week. Our average losing margin is 100 points for god's sake. At the very least I'm expecting a close match. Both teams need to turn games into a scrap to be competitive and are very poor defensively (travesty to say that about Melbourne who not so long ago had one of the better defences going around). I think it will be an even contest with us just having enough to get over the line, but I'm not confident.

Cumulative scoring in the 3rd quarters over the first three rounds: For - 2.2 Against - 24.14 An almost unbelievable stat. Even by Melbourne standards that is horrific. This has to be rectified immediately. A halftime break should be used to charge up, not down.

I appreciate what you're saying, what I don't agree with is the assertion that 2 quality ball winners and a bunch of also rans is doing OK in that area. Frankly another hard nosed type like Wines would be an absolute god send. At the end of the day, we needed both, so I understand the decision to go with Viney and Toumpas, rather than Viney and Viney II. The majority accepted the logic to that decision. That said, the first few rounds have been somewhat of a wake up call about the extent of our deficiencies in the middle of the ground, and the stats Wines is producing are incredibly impressive. There's a strong chance we've passed on a very special player, who wanted to come here, of all places.

Whilst this is disappointing to hear, some of the reactions in this thread are almost comical. This sort of thing would happen within every club, in a variety of settings inside and outside the club. With the pressure they must be feeling at the moment, it shouldn't come as any great surprise. Plus keep in mind, these guys aren't just people who play together, alot of them are mates. Mates tend to have this happen at least once or twice. Seriously, we have far greater concerns at the moment than worrying about a supposed push and shove after a few drinks, the background to which we are speculating upon.

Further to my post above, I would dispute that assumption that 2 players in Jones and Viney will be sufficient in filling the inside midfield roles. Jones is an excellent player, albeit a bit overrated due to us being starved of quality midfielders, and Viney will be a gun, but to expect them to carry that load on their own is not realistic.

Bob, you provide a well formed argument, but the way you're talking, one could be forgiven for thinking we are spoiled for ball winners. We're not. We have Jones, a first year player in Viney, and that's pretty much it. As it stands, our depth is extremely poor in all areas of the midfield, not just outside run. Take West Coast as one example. Yes they have Priddis and Kerr, but Masten also had 11 clearances, 6 out of the centre, with able support from Shuey and Selwood. We simply can't get our hands on the footy at the moment, a problem that, love him or hate him, has been undoubtedly worsened by the absence of Moloney. As to who will be the better long-term player is up for debate, but saying there is no great need for a player like Wines absolutely flies in the face of what we've seen in the first three rounds, and indeed the state of the list.

Christ there are some peanuts here. Perhaps I should've put "no disrespect to Toumpas" in bold. Here, let me try it. Disclaimer: No disrespect to Toumpas intended. This is not a crack at Toumpas, he's 3 games in. But Wines' impact has been immediate and it has been significant. One can't help but question if he is EXACTLY what our side needed over this season and the next, rather than a player who by most admissions will take some time to develop. I think Toumpas may been a selection on the back of presuming the side was well ahead of where it actually is, in terms of its development. Next week we'll get an indication as to whether we sit second last or dead last in that department.

Don't say that to Jens Lehmann (or whatever the hell that idiot's name is). Apparently Port is a false economy and everything with our coaching setup is hunky dory.

The George Costanza School of Recruiting. Works for me.

No disrespect to Toumpas, but this kid has everything we need and more. Just watching the Showdown and he's taken it by the throat with 22 possssions and 2 goals. Easily in the top 3 or 4 on the ground. "A ready made gun midfielder who supports Melbourne and is Viney's best mate? We'll pass thanks." F me...

Well said Cudi.