DeeSpencer

125 votes in 17 games. 7.4 votes a game 1.8 per coach. So more weeks than not the coaches thought Tyson was either not doing his role at all or just meeting the baseline standards.

I thought his first half of the year when Viney was out was really strong and I expect him to poll pretty well in the B+F over that time. Tackles, goals, clearances, low clangers. Once he was relegated to the wing he struggled and particularly in the finals when he wasn't given any time or space. He's certainly fringe heading in to next year but I'm actually keen to see how he goes and where he plays. Time for him to strip a bit of weight and embrace an outside role be it wing, half back or half forward.

Valid point, but the other 2 depth players the Eagles had were Schofield and Vardy replacing Shepherd Nic Nat, that kind of depth makes sense to keep as they are difficult players to replace. Sheed was a young player with a lot of upside who Simpson dropped to work on a few things - most likely his disposal and two way running, I'm not sure there was ever talk of trading him last year. I see him more like Angus Brayshaw, getting dropped a few times and coming back better. If Gaff was staying at the Eagles now they'd probably be looking to trade out one of their mids to keep him. Probably Masten. It's not that we just give him away but we work out who's coming in and going out and if he has value.

They'd get free agent compensation the next year. He'd also get no cash. I doubt that will happen. Easier for him to go through the motions, get paid whatever it is he's currently getting paid and then find an injury around mid year like Lynch did. Or he might end up playing forward similar to Frawley. I think the Suns are willing to trade. I also think May would be lucky to get a contract big enough to trigger more than a mid first round compensation pick next year unless the AFL are very generous - and they've given the Suns enough this year that they don't need to be. I'm confident Pick 10 will do it.

Was it Maynard's 15 disposals tagging Ablett, 18 disposals on debut playing wing and half forward against the Giants or the copious times he had 25+ touches in the VFL in his first season of footy in years that convinced you he can't find the footy? There's also no way you could describe Tyson's ball use as reasonably well. Maynard has a lot of work to do but he has the one thing Tyson is very unlikely to ever get back - the athleticism to play AFL. The quick burst basketball steps are needed to compete in tight, Dom doesn't have it, so they play him on a wing, but that's even worse because if he's beaten on the outside guys can run passed him. Plus now he's required to hit his targets more by getting the ball in space and his kicking this year was abysmal. Tyson is depth, and if you can get something back for depth and bring in what you need then it's an easy decision

Cox killed Oscar as a forward, that's why we need a full back who can beat him like Barrass did. Not convinced Grundy did anything different than what he always does - cheat in the ruck with terrible technique and copious holding, then follow up excellently at ground level before mostly shanking kicks. Weideman wasn't playing then was he? He looked really good in the ruck to me, I'd put him in against Grundy where he can follow up at ground level, then use Gawn to destroy Cox. The two rucks can work but what the Eagles really did well was drag Gawn and Grundy way away from the ball and then kick away from them. They can do that because their key defenders and key forwards are so strong in the air they don't need aerial support. We go the other way and want to use Max as a target or defender as much as possible. The remaining Eagles did enough to get allow Lycett and Vardy to drag Grundy away, if the Pies mids were on top Grundy would've been in play. It also relies on excellent forward pressure from the other forwards and especially the talls. The Eagles get a lot of pressure from Kennedy and Darling. Weideman looks ok in that regard and can improve as he gets fitter and stronger. T Mc has his limitations but always keeps chasing. Will they be good enough to chase and cover for a ruck up forward? I'm not sure.

Damaging to who? He runs hard to get the ball and he has clean reliable hands over head and in traffic. That's a useful player even if unsuited to the wing. Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes are the starting mids, but we can cover them with Petracca, Vanders (if he stays), Nath Jones (short term next year should be young enough to provide some inside midfield cover), Maynard - who's both overrated and underrated on here but can play if given a chance and even ANB or Salem if required. Plus inside mid is the easiest position to pick up a state league or delisted player.

Not sure Kent moving affects Tyson. Vanders does and so does the ability to land KK and potentially 1 more ready to play outside mid. If we Vanders goes and we find 2 replacements then Tyson goes. If Vanders stay and we add KK then Tyson goes as well. He might have value now. After next season barring improvements or change in position I can't see him having any trade value. So if we can cash in on his value now we should. Anything top 40 in the draft or of similar value would be enough to me.

Tampa, Seattle, KC

Not really interested in quotes about 18 year olds who are better than the other kids. I don't care what the stop watch says if the guy can't run down players or burst through the lines and run with the ball. Pies forward line tomorrow will feature De Goey, Stephenson, WHE, Josh Thomas, Varcoe. Eagles will have Ryan, Rioli, Cripps. Richmond obviously led the way with their smalls. KK is perfectly quick enough to play half back in a role, or even play on a wing which is where he might be best suited - I haven't seen him play there so that's more of a projection based on attributes. But Hibberd and Jetta are likely to slow down - Jetta might've already, Hunt might not be an AFL player, Wagner is below par speed for an AFL half back, DJ we aren't sure about. Joel Smith has excellent athleticism but isn't a skilled player likely to run with the ball. Frost is Frost. Where's the half backs who can run with speedy forwards and really run and carry the ball out? I certainly want KK for a reasonable price and think he could easily replace Lewis with some confidence. But an ageing Hibberd could be moved in to Lewis' role from 2020. Or possibly Nath Jones next year. Or Fritsch with a bit more defensive training and strength. From a needs basis I think we need a linebreaking defender (which may be Hunt) and to recruit a future Hibberd (a quick excellent defensive player - which may be Smith). Certainly we need a wingman or two as well which is where he might fit in. I like the guy. I want him if he's good value. But I don't think for a rebounding flanker type he's above the average speed for that position and that's a concern to me.

A long term deal could convince Dom. I'm not sure spending another year on the wing or in the 2's helps him secure that at Melbourne. That said, the Suns have quite a few inside mids they want to play along with kids, so they might not be keen on him either.

The Suns might just be selling it that they are happy to let him go. I'd be very keen to get him. IIRC I think he was one of the reasons we traded back in the Kelly/Salem fiasco. We thought he was a good chance to be available at pick 9. That said, I do have some doubts. 1. The concussions. I hope they are sorted with this neck business 2. Speed. He's not slow, but he's not quick either, as the game gets faster you can't carry many defenders who are above average speed 3. Position fit. Is he a wingman? I'm not sure. I think he's more of a half back flanker with some intercept and skill but not great defensive skills. A pretty nice replacement for Lewis but not a huge need I wouldn't have thought. 4. He'd be the 3rd guy we've bought in as a failed high(ish) pick that we liked in the draft, after Kennedy and Balic. Sometimes you have t concede that your rating was wrong or the development has been wrong.

Harris Andrews plays his best games as an intercepting CHB whilst Darcy Gardiner at 194cm takes all the dangerous goal kickers. Ben Brown and Daniher are scary 200cm forwards but the Coleman is still dominated by guys like Riewoldt, Franklin, Kennedy and Tommy Mc. Recent draftees like Schache and Boyd haven't looked mobile enough at 200cm. Mason Cox played a great game, but his opponent came straight from the sick bay, his other finals were ineffectual, any decent defender who can get body on can negate mostly him. Whilst 190cm Jordan De Goey looked the real danger man for the Pies for most of the year. We can develop Petty as a CHB at 197cm, we can use Oscar in that spot too and we can have Lever coming across and leaping for spoils. What we don't have on the list at the moment is a reliable full back who can win contests deep in the backline.

They think he's soft, which he might be. Was moved forward to try to deliver some skill and goals when the wing wasn't working out for him this season.

Hey we can ask for the world and I hope we do but I'd also be willing to settle eventually. Maybe 1 quality piece is more important than finding multiple options but I'm yet to see what the very high quality piece in the deal would be unless they give us a top 5 pick and enough to get May. I think where we disagree is on Hogan's potential to be a generational player. I haven't felt that way about his since his first year. Whether that's injuries, confidence or personal issues or not I'm not seeing it.

10, 15, 68 for 37 and 43. Makes Lever's value at pick 7, although that calculator always overrated high picks and we took a risk that we'd finish strongly and the Crows wouldn't. Hogan's foot v Lever's knees. Hogan's struggles against top teams v Lever's struggles one on one. If Freo give us pick 5 outright and Port are willing to split it to picks 9 and 10 then we're off to a good start. Otherwise if Freo give us pick 10 and Langdon but we can upgrade pick 32 to pick 18 with the Suns then that's worth consideration. May, 18 and Langdon is turning 1 big piece in to 3 useful pieces.

How many quick classy outside runners in the comp are there? A couple at GWS, McCluggage at Brisbane, Stephen Hill on his day (who we should look in to), Gaff who's about to go to North for a fortune. It isn't a long list. Even with average skills a quick outside runner would be an upgrade on what we currently have. I don't think Hogan with a foot injury and only a year to run on his deal is fetching us 2 high quality assets unless you count mid to late first round picks. If May is 1 high quality asset then another useful player like Langdon and then something extra on the side ends up a pretty reasonable package to me. Edit: Just thinking about it I reckon we can probably get May for cheaper than I originally thought. I'd probably want the 3rd part of a May and Langdon deal to be a bit stronger than a pick upgrade. Maybe if we chucked in our own 2nd round pick and got back to the first round.

Nic Nat is on big money as their main ruck. Lycett is about to leave for cash and opportunity. Vardy was a cheap bargain buy back up. Kennedy should be on big money, Darling on just solid very good player money, he had a career best start to the year but otherwise has always been more of a B+ type to me. Eagles big money guys are likely Nic Nat, Kennedy, McGovern, Shuey and if he isn't already then soon to be Yeo. Then they have a number of solid guys like Hurn, Redden, Shepherd who should all be above average without breaking the bank. We could keep Tommy Mc, Weeds and Hogan. I think if happy Hogan would make big but not out of control money, same with Tommy Mc's rumoured 800. Weid's out of contract next year. The greater issue is whether they'd all play together well, what that means for team performance and if it justifies spending all the money on one position group. From a purely financial point of view I think spending Hogan's money on a key defender and an outside midfielder would balance the list and create a better side.

Think we should at least inquire about a pair of Jacks. Lonie - a far from perfect footballer but would be an option in the crumbing small forward role. Small, not blistering pace and a little soft but he has smarts. Would be about a straight swap for Kent Newnes - long kicking wingman who Saints fans really dislike after this year. Would probably need a pick thrown in with Kent

That's the conversation they have to be having now. If Lewis has no interest in playing for Casey they should pay him a fraction of his contract to retire. If he's willing to admit where he is at as a declining veteran then he has value to the list and team.

To be fair I should've put pace last in my list of concerns because it's not a big one but I'm not convinced by that number that he's anything more than average. I'd like to see a stat on career running bounces, properly quick players run and bounce the ball, I can't ever remember Hogan doing that. Altogether my point is he's not taller, faster, a bigger leap, a better kick or a better pressure player than the very best key forwards. He's a very good player with a lot of improvement still left in him but I'm just not convinced that the way he burst on to the scene as a 20 year old means he'll be off the charts good for the rest of his career.

Oh yay, 4 road faves, let me tip against 2 of them and lose this week. But for now: I love Josh Allen. That's my QB of the new guys. He's so damn big and dopey yet somehow gracefully athletic and fires the ball off. I'm all in. (I also love Mahomes and Baker, and Darnold is ok too but Josh is my guy).

1. His tank is great, on a long lead that's fine but I don't see him get space on a short lead or sprint away from opponents when the ball hits the ground. Often he'll gather the ball and try to turn back away from goal rather than take them on. I don't know exactly how Hoges would go in a 20m or 40m sprint but I think most gun key forwards would have him covered. 2. This one is the most glaring. I'm surprised you don't see it. He never connects with the midfielders when deep forward. I know our mids burn the ball but good forwards make it easy for them. Hogan is often just pleading for a long bombed kick. 3. Willing to agree to disagree but the way he kicks the ball so across his body means he only has a stab kick, no variation, he'll never be able to weight the ball over a defender 4. One on one body work he's great. But in terms of actually leaping at a pack mark I haven't seen it since year 1 or 2. I'm not sure if it's a lack of confidence in his knees or back or a lack of explosiveness but he's a wrestler not a leaper. McDonald and Weideman are both far better at really jumping for the ball. 5. Josh Kennedy defends, J Riewoldt defends, when he's fit and healthy Buddy defends. It's not the be all and end all but it's a knock. Tommy McDonald's ankles don't work so he doesn't do a great job of it and Melksham likes to stand and watch. It's easy to get to a critical mass of forwards who don't launch in and lay tackles if Hogan is in that group as well. Ben Brown is a more limited footballer than Hogan but he's exceptional and at leading, marking and being a big bugger. Jack Riewoldt is the best and most well rounded forward in the game, if the stats don't show that then chuck them out. Fair point about Tom Mitchell but he is the games best ball winner, that's his remarkable skill to go with doing enough in other areas. I don't know if Hogan's best traits are truly exceptional.

Premierships are won by the best defensive side. That's the saying. May would give us a rock at FB. Big body, quick enough to take a small if needed, strong marker, good left foot roost. Lever roaming around intercepting at CHB and can groom Harry Petty in a similar mold. Jetta back pocket. Hibberd flexible rebound and intercept player. Salem on a flank. Locked in. 3 way battle for the other tall spot based on needs out of Oscar, Frost and Joel Smith. Plenty of competition to see who plays on the other flank. He's exactly what we need. Much easier to add wings and small forwards in the draft and that could pretty much be our focus if we land May.

I think you're overrating Hogan. And I think the club agrees with me because if he was really a super dooper superstar we wouldn't even entertain the idea of a trade. My issues with Hogan are: 1. Pace - he's not super quick and so struggles to burn an opponent either on the lead or when the ball is on the ground 2. Leading patterns - repeatedly he gets out of position as a deep forward. Far better leading up the ground, but the way footy is played right now doesn't favour the lead up CHF. Similarly Tom McDonald is excellent in that role 3. Kicking skills - whilst his goal kicking has improved and is very good inside 45m the way he hooks the ball around his body means he struggles for distance and struggles to weight the ball inside 50. If he gets the ball 60m out it often ends with a turnover or dumped kick. 4. Lack of a leap - how often does he take the big pack grabs out reaching opponents - very rarely 5. Defensive effort - it's just not there. He tried much harder this year but it clearly doesn't come naturally to him. Poor tackler and again the lack of speed comes in here I think Hogan is an excellent player - runs all day, clean hands on both sides of his body, mobile like a midfielder around the packs, kicks his goals at a good rate, but I don't think he's the special kind of player that will get the whole farm in a trade. I don't want draft picks for him, I think most are in agreement there, but if the trade is Hogan for May and another best 22 player with upside then I'd do that. May and Ed Langdon is my suggestion.