Dr. Gonzo

I have a hatred for GWS due to the $cully thing, but big picture I think it is important they succeed now that they're there. The issue I have though, and the stench which emanates from GWS & GC, is that the AFL is INVESTING in these areas/clubs and will do anything they can to ensure they succeed, similar to Brisbane and Sydney earlier last decade. How can anyone take the COMPETITION seriously when the administrators of the game will do anything they can to ensure success for these teams? In hindsight the AFL should have built these teams from the ground up investing in the grassroots and letting these clubs develop to the point where they demanded a team. Unfortunately the AFL has taken the short-term approach of throwing massive wads of money at them in the hope that this will guarantee success for the teams on the field and therefore success for the clubs off the field. So where is the line drawn between the AFL and these new franchises? If the AFL is going to such lengths to ensure on-field success for them, surely they can see that interest from supporters of the other clubs may diminish if they see that they're own clubs chance of success has been railroaded by the competitions adminstrators in an effort to make the game more appealing to the northern fans and therefore attempt to lure in more money from broadcasters/advertisers. Another issue as raised is that interest in the games against these clubs by foundation clubs is much lower than games against traditional enemies. So a game against Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Hawthorn etc is much more interesting than a game against GC, GWS, Port, Adelaide, Freo etc. With the increased number of teams, guaranteed return games and the 22 game season, the competition is being divided into two with Coll, Carl, Ess, Rich, Haw, Geel playing each other twice every year give or take maybe one or two on a rotational basis which leaves MFC, North, Bulldogs etc the honour of playing these soulless franchises twice every year meaning less home games against traditional rivals and less return games against them as well. This not only affects our crowds due to limited opposition supporters attending but affects the interest of our supporters in these games - as RobbieF said games against the traditional enemies mean something, games against the franchises are just another four points. If the AFL continues with their FIXture in an effort to "maximise attendances" as well as funding of the new franchises to ensure success, the competition is so compromised that the traditional supporters will slowly lose interest. Fix up the draw and it can go a long way to ensuring the credibility/integrity of the competition where it is seen as a genuine sporting contest rather than just another "for profit" industry.

Exactly. I'm glad to hear stuff like this. Thanks for sharing mate. The way some of you blokes carrying you'd think you were running a grand inquisition here or something. Give the guy a break. Here's an idea - if you dont like the thread or think it's pointless dont post.

Richie Vandenberg

I don't think there's need for that - these guys did this in good faith. Maybe apologies are warranted to club legends like Schwarz who copped a bit of a pasting by some, but we shouldn't let the $cumbag tear the club apart with supporters having a go at each other about who was right and who believed him. I believed him up until about 1/2-3/4 of the way through the year because I wanted him to stay & in the absence of evidence what other choice as a supporter of the club did I have? We should move on in supporting the club and the players and new coaches/FD who have chosen to stay on and display their loyalty, guys like JT, Chippa, Gawn, Tappy etc instead of wasting our energy fighting amongst ourselves over who was right or wrong.

Whether he signed the contract in 2010/2009 or not is no irrelevant because this proves that he is a liar who lied to the club, supporters and media in his press conference in March 2011 stating that no approach had been made to him, his manager or his family. What I want to see is the players get stuck into him like never before in Round 13 and every time we wplay them for the rest of his career. I don't want to see any of the backslapping crap the Cats had with Ablett when they played GC this year. Punish the little ****.

Pretty sure made that comment before the "media training" could be wrong though.

This is true and my first reaction to the articles (and all his comments since being appointed) is "hell yes, finally someone who is saying what needs to be said". I never want to be embarrassed as a supporter of this club like I was in the wake of the Carlton game this year. I can see the argument though that singling out players in the media may not be the best way to go about it. However as I said before hopefully this will be the "culture shock" we've needed since Northey left and the players will either HTFU or GTFO. EDIT: As an afterthought, this is a club that seems to have "needed" this sort of no-nonsense coach from outside the MFC/MCC conservative culture to shake the place up and show them what is required to achieve success. This isn't an old-school gentleman's club where just showing up and having a run around the park is enough, this is a professional no-holds-barred league and the purpose is success, not competitiveness. Our successful coaches (Checker, Smith and Northey even though he fell short of the ultimate success) were old school, tell it like it is hard-arses. I agree there's too much molly-coddling in this club. Hopefully Neeld will prove to be another outsider who comes from the blue-collar cross-town rival to show us the la-la land we've been in and can shake the place up and lead the club to success.

This was well before my time but I've heard the story before and pretty sure this game was at Glenferrie Oval not the G.

I've always wondered about this and have to agree that Carlton would have flogged us in 1987, but would making the 1987 GF have held is in better stead in 1988? We were demolished by the Hawks but many of our players were young and inexperienced to the GF week experience whereas the Hawks were old pro's. Making the 1987 GF may have taken some of the edge off the 1988 GF (assuming we made it again).

I don't think its a matter of making bold statements - the supporters are very happy with this direct talking for the most part. What I think some people are raising as potential misgivings is the perceived "bagging" or singling out of players in the public mind. He could have very easily made the same comments without referring directly to Davey, Watts or Sylvia having to lift their game or being demoted to Casey.He could have made this as a general statement of all players having to prove themselves. I'm not saying its wrong but I can understand the misgivings. Say what you want behind closed doors but there still needs to be a sense of unity in public. As mentioned did Roos, Malthouse, Thompson etc single out players in public? The last coach I can remember doing so (though to a greater extent) was Blight with his "pathetic" Pittman comments.

I can agree with this to an extent. Although I love these statements they are definitely geared towards the supporters rather than the media or the players to buy in to the new coaches/FD. It may be unfair to single out certain players but it is certainly not unwarranted and something that has been said about these same players by supporters and the media for years. Should the coach be making these statements in public? Maybe not but I think it will help create an environment where the acid is on the players - they are paid to play footy and if they can't handle a but of public pressure then they should either drink a cup of cement or GTFO. Having said that though what I'd like now is for Neeld to put HIS nose to the ground and focus on getting this club back on track for number 13. He's made his point but I think this club has had enough of "words" over the long drought - it's time for actions.

Just like in Arrested Development.

Haha, yep that would be my first pit-stop, right on my to kill Hitler.

I'm as [censored] off as anyone that we drafted him instead of Martin or Morabito - can you imagine Trengove/Martin ripping up the comp for the next 10-15 years? However this was not the clubs fault, $cully was seen as the no. 1 pick a long way out and if we had have overlooked him can you imagine the outcry that MFC supporters would have made? That feeling, Tom, is called guilt.

Good call, I remember you making those comments.

Great thread! First game I can remember attending was when i was 6 years old, it was Round 1, 1988 we played Richmond at the 'G and trounced them and "TC" Tony Campbell kicked 8 goals from memory. I don't remember much from the game except walking around the back of the old Southern Stand just before the final siren. Was pretty happy we won. However I am sure I attended some games in 1987 I just can't remember them. What I do remember though is my dad and I sitting at home listening to the radio and watching the replay in Round 22, 1987 - we couldn't go to the game because it was my sisters 3rd birthday that day so we had to sit at home and miss one of the best moments in recent MFC history! I don't remember attending the finals the two weeks after but I do remember being at the Royal Melbourne Show on Prelim Final day 1987 and Melbourne and Hawthorn posters/banners up everywhere. My cousin barracked for Hawthorn at the time (for a brief period from 1986 to about 1989 - he is now and was before that a Richmond supporter) so was giving me stick when we asked someone who won and they told us the Hawks after we had gotten updates from people all day saying Melbourne were winning. Although I attended almost every week in 1988 I don't have any clear memories of other games until Round 22, 1988 when we beat the Blues to secure a finals spot, and then the Semi-Final against the Pies and the Prelim against the Blues (I didn't attend the WCE Elimination Final as was at a friends birthday). I do remember listening to us beat the Cats at the Cattery on the radio in my bedroom, pretty sure dad went that day but I was left at home. I also remember being up at 6am on GF Day 1988 watching the footy marathon all ready to go and watch the Demons play in the Grand Final and then realising that my dad hadn't been able to get a ticket for me only for himself and my uncle. I guess it was a blessing in the end as I was able to switch off the TV at half time and go and kick the footy around the backyard but I had to cop it from my cousin again who came around at half time to rub salt in to the wound.

I've seen the issue of "fitness" raised a few times now and watching games in 2011 I didn't need to be told - it was plain as day the players were either unfit or lazy. My thoughts are whether it is because they previous coaching staff/FD didn't push the players hard enough they weren't fit enough or is it because of the age of our list and the fact quite a few are only in their 2nd/3rd and have had limited pre-seasons to build up the fitness base. Someone like Morton is in his 5th year next year but how many pre-seasons has he done? Similar with guys like Watts, Jurrah, Blease etc

Exactly. Look at where that has gotten us in the past regarding "name players" like White, Yze, Robertson, Johnston getting picked week in, week out on reputation alone which was mainly built either early in their careers or against weaker opposition.

Maybe he did but the decision was the right one. We have moved on as a club and now we can only hope he does as well and isn't like a Grant Thomas or KB figure carrying a grudge. The future is now and Neeld is the man to lead us.

I don't think that there's any Melbourne supporters that would say the club has never made mistakes in the past or even the recent past. This isn't about a journalist unveiling internal mistakes like a Caroline Wilson might do and perhaps even providing constructive criticism or opinion on the matter. This is about someone making nothing statements, like the club doesn't stand for anything and he would be ashamed to support MFC, as well as having a go at the club for ridiculous things like not paying 100% of the cap, over-paying for Clark & not hunting down Wonna without knowing all the facts or even attempting to know them or put them into context. I think it does raise an interesting debate though which seems to have ben lost in the last few pages here and that is as supporters what is the best way to support the club? Is it by blindly applauding every move they make? Is it by constantly criticising everything they do? Is it by deriding our own supporter base for being passionless and the club for being soft and weak? I don't know the answer but I think the closest thing we can do to what would be "right" was mentioned a couple of pages ago and that is to defend & support the club at every opportunity conveying a united public front while working things out behind closed doors. In effect it is "don't air your dirty laundry in public". This is what the big clubs do or try to do and it seems to work for them. Others like Richmond who eat their own in public are seen as rabbles and the public perception feeds off itself. I sometimes think what is the best way I can help the club? I have been a member for a long time but don't have any access/knowledge of the inner workings of the club other than what is in the papers or on Demonland. I think the answer is to support them to the hilt but to also question the decisions being made and the direction of the club. This may sound contradictory but I don't think it is. For instance I liked the member survey sent out yesterday as it gave me the opportunity to provide some feedback to the club about where I see us without having to resort to ringing up 3AW or SEN and bag them out on air. I am pretty happy with the current board however there are things they can handle better and although we have cleared the debt I still think our financial position is very bad and needs to improve. We are a proud and strong club with as much history as the game itself. Despite being rubbish for almost half a centuiry we still sit 4th on the premiership table. Despite falling short of the ultimate prize we were still seen as one of the most successful Vic clubs of the modern era until 5 years ago making the finals more often than not. We have had and still ahve our problems but no club is perfect and we are working these out. We have some historical disadvantages but those same things also provide us with other advantages and we need to accentuate the positive and minimise the negative. We are stabilising our off-field position and now have some of the best facilities in the league giving our team and club the best opportunity it's had in a while to match it with the big boys. Hopefully this translates into off-field success and I think it will. The worm always turns it wasn't so long ago Geelong were seen as a rabble, soft "handbaggers" who couldn't get the job done. We will make finals and challenge again soon and when we do we can turn around and rub it in the faces of morons like Denham who will then have moved on to their next whipping boy in a desparate attempt to remain relevant.

A call to the AFL would have achieved nothing. A call to the Herald-Sun on the other hand...

Pretty sure the new AD series and movie won't be out til 2013 but after this many years wait another 1.5 won't be too bad. I love British comedies, much better than the American ones (with rare exceptions like AD). Been watching Misfits & Inbetweeners recently as well as An Idiot Abroad and am downloading Psychoville to watch (made by the same guys who did League of Gentlemen). I've seen one ep of Peep Show on FTA was very funny gonna have to download that series as well. I've seen the first 10 episodes of BB series 4, just gotta watch the last 3.

Haha and on that note Arrested Development one of the best US comedies of recent years are making another 9 episodes plus a movie! Happy times all round. Agree with the rest of the shows mentioned love BB and nothing beats Sopranos. I have The Wire, Mad Men, Sons of Anarchy and Deadwood downloaded and ready to watch just gotta find the team. Seen season 1 of Dexter and was very good but haven't watched the rest yet.

This should maybe go in the membership thread but considering we only have 15 games at MCG/Docklands compared to 18 last year will this be reflected in membership prices? I am a Trident member and the cost has gone up about $45 since last year yet we have access to 3 fewer games.

Yeah the positiver though is an extra hours sleep after a big night out on Friday/Saturday.