Dr. Gonzo

Putrid? We lost by 3 goals and that only blew out from a neck and neck game in the last 10 minutes. Saints aren't the best team going but to act like we got hammered from pillar to post is garbage. Save that for next week when it actually happens

Wagner, Wagner, ANB, OMac & Smith hopefully won't be getting games (or on the list) next year. You can't win giving away 85 points from turnovers. For comparison we scored 22 pts from turnovers. That's on the players, not sure what Goodwin is meant to do about that. Brayshaw needs to learn how to use the footy instead of just bombing away and missing easy goals on the run. Another easy goal missed by Fritsch in the 3rd which turned into a goal down the other end. Our starting forward line tonight was Fritsch, Smith, Petty, Petracca, Lewis & Hunt. Petracca is the only one we would have had there in our starting 22 at the start of the season. The end of this season can't come quick enough, the whole club needs to reset to go again next year. I don't understand the level of vitriol on here, this year's been over for weeks. One positive I found tonight was Petracca, he's really matured over the last 2 or so months and been a consistently good player building more confidence. He needs to learn how to stay in the game longer (stints on ball will help) and nail his set shots but I'm more confident in him now than I was at the start of the season.

But we weren't beyond that point in 2014-16 which are 3 of the years you are using to prove your argument that 2018 was an aberration. In 2014 we were coming from that low point, probably the lowest point of any non-expansion side since Fitzroy.

But lists are at different stages in their development. It's not comparing like with like. Especially when talking about depth to cover injuries (and by the way we have had more games lost to injury to best 22 players than those more developed teams).

You should know that rules in the AFL are always subject to interpretation.

I couldn't even tell you who some of those guys are. Tohill? Noble? Murphy? Kelly? Wells and Dunn are finished so can hardly count them. Wells has barely played for 3 years.

Probably a combination of coach/FD and recruiters but yeah I agree. I think we've tried to amend that at last year's draft but there's been too many misses for mine over the last 4 or 5 drafts. Guys like Hulett, Mitch King, Dion Johnstone never even looked close to making an AFL career and the jury is still out in a few others. Still to early to judge guys like Spargo, Jordon, Baker etc but it seems theyve tried to go with some page over contested players. I'd like to see them focus on skills at this year's draft. Still it juts proves that it's impossible to compare like for like and say "well Richmond and West Coast have had injuries and they're still top 4" because it doesn't work like that.

Agree mate but trying to use logic with the perennially outraged is like banging your head against the wall

We've had to completely rebuild our list from 2014 onwards following the failed prior rebuilds. West Coast and Richmond began their builds in 2007-09. Who do we have left from back then Jones and Gawn? Yeah it's "our" fault (as in MFC) but it's not the fault of the current FD or coach. The list was stuffed under prior regimes and has been built and developed under this one. It's just the fact that we are still a young team and injuries to our key players will hit us harder until we have a mature list with decent depth.

That's assuming each season every team has the same list makeup with the same opportunity to play finals. While theoretically that is true in reality we all know we were not going to play finals in 2014 or 2015 and most likely 2016. Therefore to use those seasons as evidence that 2018 was an outlier is disingenuous because it fails to add context or take into account the fact we were building from ground zero in 2014. We were a VFL level team in 2012-13 I mean Dean terlich and Matt Jones both came top 5 in our B&F one year. If that's not the definition of a VFL level team I don't know what is

Not sure where you got your list Of the unavailable players only Moore, Langdon & Beams could be considered big losses.

Richmond and West coast have more mature lists so they have greater depth to cover their injuries. Our depth is guys like Dunkley, Lockhart, Wagner x2 etc

Take your pick from our game. Players blocked off the ball, players ducking their heads and no holding the ball called even though the rule states it's deemed prior opportunity, Lockhart copping it high while already in a tackle and getting called holding the ball, max getting called holding the ball etc etc

You said every club has injuries but ours this year have impacted our best 22 far more than any other side. Look at Geelong's and Brisbane's injury lists.

He had injuries throughout last year didn't he?

Like to compare the games lost to our best 22 this year compared to other clubs?

Confidence is also impacted by not finishing off the work in front of goal. Had Lewis slotted his 2 goals in the first quarter and Petty slotted his 2 gimmes (not to mention Gawn, Viney and Fritsch) we would have won. It's that simple.

What kind of detail? Detail like players unavailable (TMac, Lever, Melksham etc)? Having to play Petty as a KPF when he had never played there in his life? The fact we were up by 38 points late in the 3rd vs Carlton (should've been 10 goals if not for poor goal kicking again) and hung on with only 1 fit player on the bench? The fact we would have beaten West Coast on the weekend if not for poor goal kicking (again!) The post I responded to stated nothing had changed since the bye when that is clearly not the case. Our form has been better, our gameplan has been adjusted, our personnel is still in high flux and our execution (particularly in front of goal) remains poor.

Since the bye we've beaten Freo and Carlton, pushed the reigning premier and the Bulldogs and got Run over playing away against the team sitting 2nd on the ladder.

It's Lyons way of trying to fire a rocket under them. He's basically saying "prove me wrong" which I don't disagree with but not sure how it's going to do much at this stage of the season. Maybe 5-6 weeks ago would've been better timing.

Did you watch the game today? We did not "persist with the manic chaos game for the entire match".

Do you blame Goodwin for today's loss?

I can forgive Vineys miss, hell even Petty due to inexperience especially up forward (even though both his were absolute sodas). But the two misses from Lewis were inexcusable.

How many Prelims have those teams made in the last 12 months? Anyone who puts this loss on Goodwin is just plain dumb. He coached well today, it was the execution of the players which lost us the game.