BangkokDemon

this is such a sad day. My thoughts are with Austin and his family. Be strong Austin, we are all right behind you. BTW does anybody know if there are plans to set up a condolences page on the MFC website

Agree 100%. Those who are upset should get over it.

There are 22 players in the side at anyone time and 40+ on the list. It is a credit to the club - not to Bruce - that they did not give in to the desires of one player, particularly on the grounds he he held out for. One reason we have not won a premiership for nearly 50 years, is that there have been too many times when we've given to this or that, because of "good service to the club", "crowd pulling abilities", and a myriad of other reasons. This was particularly to over the last few years. The Dees are on course, building a champion team, from the base up. Bruce could have played a part in that, if he had been willing to trust his own abilities to keep playing, one year at a time. It is sad, it has ended in tears, but it was his choice - fr whatever reasons.

As unfortunate that it is that Cam Bruce was not prepared to accept the one year offered to him, his departure draws a line under what we became in our recent history. Further, the way he departed is indicative of a culture which had built up among many of the "senior" group. The reason Brad Green is still around, is that he was able to change. He went through his "defining" moment, when negotiating his last contract. Because he was prepared to put the future of the club - which he obviously wanted to be a part of - ahead of a giant salary (he still gets paid well, but not what he wanted), he stands an excellent chance of being part of our next premiership team. Cam Bruce might have had the same chance, if he had been wiling to accept the one year offer.

You make a good point about the AFL being in the "dark ages" when it comes to anything much happening outside Australia, but to be fair, there was an exclusive broadcast deal with a Chinese channel, who I would imagine could have asked for an unrealistic amount of money to broadcast elsewhere. Evene the Australia Network (ABC's Satellite channel) didn't have it and they are normally very good with AFL - more games and better time spots, than Rugby League. My beef is with Big Pond rather than the TV channels. Although they manage the MFC website (unfortuately) they don;t seem to be able to show us singing when we win - if one lives outside Australia. Similarly DB's post match interview or any other interviews. I can understand them not showing the game, unless one pays, but not club events and news items etc. I wouldn't even mind if they made it members only. Bah humbug to Big Pond ! Go Dees !!

It's not just about "line" coaches - as they are now called (yuk!. Wellman taught the back"line" very well. But, it's not him playing. In the end it is up to players to perform - they are not robots. Remember the days of "playing coaches" - Barrassi? There were no "line coaches" back then. It was a much slower and less "scientific" game, I admit. The players had to use their brains - they still have to use their brains. Have faith in the players. After all, it is them on the field. They are the ones who have the ultimate responsibility - to bring home the flag...for Melbourne. That Victorian clubs have been starved and had to fight a system the AFL created, to build up interstate clubs should be an incentive to show them, that despite the odds (and this AFL support for the Suns and GWS is yet another example)we are better than anyone else. Thinking about that, isn't that exactly what Jimmy and the boys have done already ? The AFL tried to push us in all sorts of ways, to relocate, to merge, to close down etc.. It didn't happen. But, it won't have been worthwhile, until those guys on the field are running around the MCG at 5pm on either, the last Saturday of September, and/or the first Saturday of October, embracing the Red & Blue brigade and holding that glorious trophy up high for all all to see! Then, of course, there's the year after and the many years after that!! Now, tell me, what player wouldn't want to be part of that??

WYL, I think we all agree that there is no longer a place in this club for anything but the best. I don't think the current administration and coaching staff want anything else either. Just playing a few "inspiring" games in the H&A season and winning a final, is no longer enough for anyone. Do you think young guys like Scully, Trengove and their ilk, along with the more "experienced" Sylvia, Frawley and even Dunn - not to say guys such as Green and Davey, who would dearly love to play out their careers as champions in a champion side, will accept anything less, than the same success we all want ? I don't. And, that's why - as anxious as I am - I believe, this mob can do it !!

WYL & Rhino, I agree with both of you. The facts about the number of games are important, but we must know where we are heading this time - and that is, the highest result: starting with our first premiership in nearly (which also might be) 50 years! True, Collingwood was built around a hard core, over a few years. Our core had grow quite stale, through a reluctance to do the right thing and start again - until now. We are developing a new core - we either retired, or let go what we had, over the last 2 years. This was not done without forethought - unlike before. But, it was realized, we needed a new game plan (with several options)if we are to be the force, we want our club to be. And to achieve that, we needed to cut our ties with the "old days", on the field, whilst at the same time, bringing back the great history and achievements of the "original" Australian Rules Football Club. It's a tall order, but if anyone can do it, I believe the current administration and the nucleus of players now in place, can make Melbourne, once again, be the GREATEST side in the competition ! Go Dees!

Apologies, I thought that was a rhetorical question. I can't answer right now, but I see your point. It felt strange during the year, to hear that several of the sides we played in 2010, were on average younger than us. I usually discounted that, by thinking the average blew out, thanks largely, to Junior and Cam. But nobody looked at the amount of games our young guys had played, as opposed, to the opposition. 2011 is a different game. Many of the young guns have at least one season together, under their belts and it is time for the new leader group, to step up and join the "senior" players such as Green and Davey - for they have suddenly become the "experienced" players who will have to lead us forward, to that ever so elusive "golden chalice"... Go Dees in 2011 and beyond!

Didn't you answer that earlier, by agreeing with me that, Collingwood's "experienced" players are sufficient enough in numbers and possibly at their collective peaks and that is a major factor, in why they got there?

It is correct to say "age isn't the only factor". But, younger players are the future of our club. It is more important to put the "50+ games" into them, than to hold on to older or struggling "middle years" players, who will never make it. The more of the younger players, who have 50+ games in them, the closer we will be, to creating that "rump" of guys who are ready to slot in, at any time. A much better long term policy, than 4 points...in 2010.

I was surprised this morning when Caroline Wilson pointed out during the Offsiders (ABC-TV) that, 7 of the Collingwood players had 50, or less games in them; 9 with less then 60, is even more remarkable. On first impression, it does make us appear to have been under-achievers, in 2010. But, in 2010, we had to rely quite heavily on our youngsters. They all played very important parts in our wins and near wins - e.g. Pettherd in his last game of the year, against the Maggies, the ball getting abilities of Scully and Trengove, the leaping and finishing off by LJ, and more. It was not the "kids" who got Collingwood over the line - with maybe, 1 or 2 exceptions. It was the steady discipline and desperation, of Maxwell, Shaw,Pendlebury,Ball (I hate to say it) Jolly, etc.,the experienced players,who created the opportunities for the win. Of course, that is not to discount the contributions of the young guys.You don't win a Grand Final, without everyone contributing. But, the kids were often, a (very able) support group. Therefore, because we have chosen to bring our young group forward, and do not have - or perhaps some might say, have let go - so much experience, inconsistency such as we saw this year, is understandable. However, if by the middle of 2011, we are still blaming failures on the "young and inexperienced" group, then we have a problem.

Whilst I have a lifelong dislike of Collingwood - a natural state of mind, for any Demon supporter - I think respect is due. They are where we want to be. We want to see our 22, running around the MCG, holding the cup high. Like them, we have had a few false dawns, over the last 46 years. But,one must pay respect to what has been achieved by them, both on and off field in recent years. My hope is that in the next couple of years, we will be able to achieve the same stunning results - on our own terms, in our own way! Go Dees 2011 and beyond!

Great find ! Maybe this will stir the pot and make Eddie have to debate this issue transparently - not behind closed doors with the AFL.

Yes, they did. For a couple of our GF's we had to use the "away" rooms, if I remember correctly. Not sure if we won those years ? Perhaps someone else knows the answer?

Exactly! If the AFL is so determined to force everyone into these ridiculous clash jumpers, they should at least give way to the old tradition of tossing a coin to see who wears what. It was bad enough when LJ won his mark of the year wearing white. I get pxxed off everytime I look at that spectacular leap on my desktop ! End the clash and end it NOW!! For once Eddie has a point. All clubs need to tell the AFL this is wrong, wrong wrong ! See I was so annoyed I called it a "goal" not a mark!!! Have now corrected it

WYL, my comments were not so much aimed at you. Even though you are a hard task master, generally I know from your posts, you know there is a long term plan. What I get critical about, are the short sighted comments from those who think we can just get up and be there, because we have some talented players. It takes much more than that. And, I believe we now have a club, which is capable of delivering. It has made "promises"- which everyone (players included) - believe they can finally turn into reality. In 50+ years, I haven't felt that, since the halcyon 50s & early 60s. And, yes, Thai food and a great Thai wife (16+ years) have made my life, nearly as "good as it gets". There is just one thing missing, but I know it is on it's way...finally! Go Dees!!!LOL

He should not have been played the last two weeks. Next season he should play at Casey until he plays at least two games in the top five players. I have had it with the developing big man theory! when he produces at Casey promote him and not before.

Hear, hear! The only way is up!!

I don't think this is the time to "bash" Moloney. It's true he tended to spray his possessions in the centre too much in the last couple of games. But, everyone seems to forget he was out with what must have been a quite serious injury. He's lacking games. Trengove is much the same. Since he came back, he's not really hit the heights he did earlier in the year. Perhaps now, it looks like, the choice between him or Scully as the #1 Draft pick was correct after all. We did miss Davey (we missed him last week too); the midfield changed character, when Scully was forced to go on Harvey,after Jones went off. But, Scully also played a good game - even if his colours were lowered a bit by the most experienced stager, in the biz. North were the better side. But, as opposed to our last loss to them, only a 10pt. better side, this time. A full strength Melbourne would have won this game. But, today we were not full strength. Still, we tried our hearts out until that siren went. I also agree with the comment, that it was the old guys who got North over the line. For us, it was the young guys (the future), with maybe the exception for Green and dare I say it, Dunn, who enabled us to finish only 10pts down But, that's all irrelevant, to where this team is going. It would have been good to finish 10th or 9th - being 8th would have served no purpose: next year, a Finals birth is a must. More, should be more able to cope with the pressures of Finals football, rather than just "being at the table".Look what happened to Essendon, to understand what I am suggestng - and to a lesser extent (perhaps) Carlton, yet again. Finally, be thankful, we're not bidding for Draft picks 1 & 2, again (not that we could anyway!). But more, be thankful we have a team with a real future. It started in 2010...

Well said Demon Hill. I agree 100% with your comments! Especially : GO DEES!!!

What I get from all these comments is that saying players didn't try; the game didn't matter; because we are now out of finals contention, we may as well tank. Okay, was LJ, trying when he too Mark of the year? Was Aussie not trying when he went in and under ? Was Jack Watts not trying, when he was hit by Ebert (who has a big problem) and later when he had a blood nose? Was Junior not trying? And, even though he failed (in my eyes), was Newton not trying ? Give the guys credit. This is not a Melbourne side of 3-4 years ago, where players did have an inflated opinion of themselves and knew a shocker was "forgivable". This side cares. This side wants to be a champion side. Some will not make it. That's what today showed to me. But we are on the right track. Today was a disappointment. But,it did nothing to dissuade me from my belief, we are on the right track!

Nasher, on 22 August 2010 - 04:10 PM, said: All the things that interest me in AFL football were absent from this game . . . You mean to say LJ's Mark wasn't worth seeing ?

That's why I made the comment. If wishes were fishes, indeed. It is also probably true, that today gave the club a chance to "test" some fringe players, because, thanks to injury, others were not available. Guys like Newton (particularly), must know, they were playing for their careers with the Dees, today. Sadly, they had the chance to prove themselves by playing in a winning side - but couldn't do it. Neither could some of the "automatic selections" - because they did not have people like Davey, Sylvia and Grimes around them. Therefore, they had their chance - they fluffed it. The club now knows, to move on and find others who can fill the bill...end of story.