Little Goffy

Their numbers are very similar. Vince has more clearances, Hartlett more tackles. Hartlett would be a show for a top-5 best and fairest placing, without being on ludicrous dollars. The triangle deal with Gold Coats and Port sounds plausible if the Suns are still interested in Howe. Howe+2nd Rounder to Gold Coast. Whatever Port needs can be on-traded from Gold Coast, which is obviously going to have a lot of movement of picks and players anyway, something suitable should churn through. The other possibility is something like the Tyson deal. Downgrading our first pick and throwing in our second rounder might be enough. A quick caveat - there's no doubt he would be worth the first rounder in a simple 'value proposition', but with Hartlett being part of the free agency midfield bonanza coming next year, the merchant is leaning on the scales a little.

Hartlett is a free agent next year. Port would need to be fair in what they expect to get in trade, given that clubs can just wait one season and get him at no trade cost at all. (did someone mention that the FA system is a mess?) With that in mind, we'd be mad to sacrifice our first pick to get him. Get a kid, 'bank' the salary cap space and offer him a five-year deal next year. Even Port would come out ahead, through a likely first-round compo pick.

Out and out champion footballer and human. Some of the most impressive (and, as an opposition supporter, alarming!) performances I've seen. Easy to forget the sheer mobility, explosiveness and poise of his long mid-career peak. Like a 191cm, 100kg Patrick Dangerfield. Finished his career in a final, with a couple of goals and a nice lump of contested marks, and never lost that poise. He's still a decent prospect of getting a couple of Brownlow votes this year, and I look forward to the small cheer that will get in the room on the night.

Wow, I'm kinda disappointed that a member of the coaching staff would speak so unprofessionally about players and also talk so loosely about player movements in the weeks before trade period. OR I'm kind of dubious that a member of the coaching staff would speak so unprofessionally / loosely etc... and this is making me doubt the post. Ah well, I guess we will find out in the end.

I think that's pretty much covered all the potential conversation. Close thread?

I have huge respect for Jordie McKenzie, and there are two things I'll always remember about him. 1. Very early in his career, during the club's brief glimmer under Bailey, he was a berserk tackling and chasing machine. The vivid memory is of a particular terrific tackle. The ball was spilling everywhere, was gathered by another opponent who was momentarily corralled by another Demon. Jordie leapt over another player on the ground in order to make a flying impact tackle on the other opponent. 2. He was the only player who really performed in the '186' debacle, contributing in all four quarters and finishing with 25 disposals and 8 tackles. He deserves the credit of being left wholly untainted by that day's shame. EDIT: Thanks to fndee pointing to it, I've found the footage of the tackle on youtube so here it is; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0juYA2aDN6Q He's like one of those clinging toy koalas they sell at souvenir shops, except flying through the air. Also, there's a nice clip of a smother, another little reminder that the guy knows how to commit his body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE0kNaHIbbw

Bwaaa ha haa ha ha ha. Oh Denham, you spud. Then again, if Essendon really were asking for a deal like that, it would require opening a whole new kind of drug investigation.

All our trade talk seems to be about Howe, Watts, Dawes, Garland, Toumpas and now also Dunn. I'm not sure how 'aggressive' it is for the club to be willing to consider offers for AFL-level players who are not critically important to the team, even if they are creditable and good contributors to culture. 'Aggressive' in my mind would be talking about trading Tom McDonald as a part of a deal to get Dangerfield. Or Gawn and our top pick for Prestia and big Zac. For the record, I wouldn't approve of that level of ruthlessness. I think it comes at a secondary cost of increasing other player's willingness to move out. Generally, when we struggle to assemble an AFL-level best 22, I'm reluctant to let any credible players go.

Effects of a public holiday - Winners * Businesses which do not pay penalty rates (ie. employ cash-in-hand, exploit international students, backpackers, etc) get a windfall by charging holiday surcharges and pocketing it, or simply by being able to get more work done compared to legal operators. * Businesses which specifically target holiday/weekend trade anyway. Aunty's Coalview La Trobe Valley B&B, Melbourne Zoo, and the like will get an extra day of good trade. People on an annual fixed salary, who get an extra day off but paid the same amount. Losers Businesses which do pay the legally required penalty rates, or which do not target weekend/holiday trade. Or both, of course. Construction, non-holiday hospitality, and so on. They'll either lose competitive position against the dodgy operators, or simply lose income, or both. Casual workers who lose shifts. Ranging from hospitality to childcare to construction to cleaning and even some health services. A lot of people in these jobs are on tight margins and missing $120 worth of shifts in a week is a frick'n disaster. So, given the distribution of benefits and impositions, the fact that the benefits go to people who either will barely notice it or should be arrested anyway, while the costs are borne by the more honest businesses or the honest working poor (ye olde 'battlers'), it is simply not debatable that public holidays are a bad thing for Australia. It is fine to argue 'I like them' or 'I think they are nice'. But you can't say 'they are a good thing'.

It is really amazing how many 'score involvements' and goal assists and other impact stats the guy has accumulated, considering he hasn't actually had the ball in his hands a huge amount yet. Brayshaw is one seriously effective player with terrific insight into what is about to happen. Throw that together with a great defensive ethic and we are really talking top quality player.

Geebus crispies, we're moving players on because of 'body language' now? He has oddly slumped shoulder posture and kind of sad, Eeyore eyes. Has had them since before he was drafted and has had them whether he was playing well or badly. Maybe people will be happy and offer him a three-year deal is he gets some training during the off-season, learns a bit of pigeon-chested strutting, maybe get an 80s tennis headband to add some attitude.

That's a special effort there, well done.

Or Denis Pagan at Carlton.

Best source for general player details and stats is footwire; http://www.footywire.com/ Also has draft records, attendances, brownlow, supercoach,and match stats right down to a breakdown of number of players in each experience category <50, 50-100, 100-150, >150. The other spectacularly useful AFL stats website is at: http://afltables.com/afl/afl_index.html This one is especially useful for the longer-term records, as it goes waaay back in VFL/AFL history and has a lot of different curiosity categories like 'most ever marks by a player with a wooden leg' and 'longest career by a player exclusively at University Football Club'.

I gather nobody actually felt a need to watch, as the whole show has been recreated in this thread anyway. "He's a [censored]" "She's a [censored] too!" "I don't care" "I think she's more of a [censored] than he is, she made vows" "I think he's more of a [censored], because mates and captains shouldn't do that" "I still don't care" "I think it is more awful if you have made marriage vows. Besides, everyone already knew he was a [censored], so it doesn't really count" "What are you, Muslim? Not that I'm saying blaming women is a Muslim thing. Of course." "I think it is really important that everyone knows how much I don't care" "Y'know, he was a pretty great footballer too." "Who Carey?" "No, Stevens." "Are you saying Carey wasn't a great footballer? What kind of idiot are you?" "Did I mention that I don't care?" "Can we trade Jeremy Howe for Stevens or Carey?" "Can we trade Jack Watts for the washing machine?" As for me, there's something about the Carey saga that triggers this little voice in the back of my mind going; "Wow, there is a man who is lucky he isn't Aboriginal."

The only real basis for recruiting him is that his name starts with 'J'. I believe there's a secret priority pick clause where if you can bring your team to more than 50% starting with the same letter, you get a bonus pick every year to use on the best available draftee with that letter. Would be a handy bonus and we're nearly there. Melksham, Taylor, Grant... there's a definite theme of players who main attribute is their first initial. If it was a case of getting these players on low contracts for almost no trade cost, on the mutual understanding that they might quickly be just depth players and aren't guaranteed games, sure, we've got list space and do need depth. There is always the possibility that these players can be fired up - remembering that under Paul Roos Sydney became famous for turning recycled ordinary players into valuable contributors.

On the one hand, surely Howe isn't rated as highly as a player, it must be a fantasy trade. On the other hand, surely with a large group of early-20s and teenagers around the club, we don't want to be bringing in douchebags. The Fevola factor - talented players with gobshite attitudes will bring other players down with them, other players who can't afford to shirk professionalism. The opposite of Cross. For example, on a misdemeanor scale, would take Bennell long before taking Greene - Bennell's got issues but he is not actively setting out to be a *****.

Sacrilege! Django, what are you thinking? The horror!

It would be an event of beauty and joy to watch the arrogant Hawks go out of the finals without a even single win to their credit. And for all that I'm not bitter and all that, I would also take some satisfaction if Frawley's unreliability was a factor in that. At Hawthorn, there can't be any excuse, no pointing to your teammates saying they weren't good enough for you to shine, no whinging about the coach, you either fill your role, do your job, continuously improve, or you get found out. If even one Melbourne player reflects on this and lift their head, taking personal responsibility for their game and development regardless of the circumstance, then it will make me happy.

Hawthorn, North Melbourne, and Fremantle are each fielding their most experienced teams ever, right now during the 2015 finals. The Bulldogs are the only 2015 finals participant with less than 100 average games played. Geelong, West Coast, Brisbane, Footscray, Melbourne, Collingwood and even Richmond also fielded their most experienced teams ever during their most recent successful periods. Teams with lots of experience are really just teams full of players who have proven themselves at AFL level. And that 'most ever' pattern points to that proven ability and development being at least as important now as it has ever been. See also Melbourne 2009-2013. You're not an AFL player until you've proven you're an AFL player.

In truth, you lost me at 'top ten draft pick means there's clearly something there'. He was taken one pick ahead of Gysberts. And you kind of managed to get worse from there. Having a few close friends who are Essendon supporters, I've known pretty much the whole of Melksham's career up close. The reason? A lot of Bomber fans get wound up every time they see him. "Here comes a turnover", "oh, let's see him go high and give away a free", or the more simply "what's the point of getting to a contest if you can't actually make a contest". I actually had a bit of sympathy for poor little Milkshake, because he definitely tried. You could see his legs pumping along all day, but the results were a lot like out-of-form Brock Mclean. Get to a contest, fail to really affect result... repeat... Finally, in a midfield crying out for speed, Melksham ain't the answer. You comparison to Garland, and dismissal of any meaning to the Melbourne Football Club Best & Fairest, is odd. I can't think of a time in fifteen years as a member where the Bluey was ever voted on by 'the board', as you say. There have been 'all the coaches', 'the head coach', 'the coaches and even some player input', 'the coaches with Cameron Schwab sending them irritating text messages', really a lot of variations, but it has never, ever gone outside the football department. Personally, I'd recommend trying our luck with a late draft pick, rather than committing to Melksham. Maybe Goodwin is convinced that all the guy needs is some special attention to really improve his game. If we get him, I'll have a little chuckle and look forward to being annoyed by my Essendon friends, but won't write him off completely, not right away. Maybe he will, like Mclean, turn things around and manage a couple of years of solid contribution before fading again.

Kruezer as a FA pick up, at a sensible price and if the medical clears him. Josh Walker as a 2-year low price contract and a token late draft pick. Any genuinely high quality midfielder that becomes available should be seriously investigated (e.g. Redden, Treloar, O'Meara, but not so much Melksham) Delisting the obvious 6; Bail, Terlich, McKenzie, M Jones, Fitzpatrick. Riley. Retain Watts, Garland and Grimes, mostly because I think between the three of them they ensure that every poster on Demonland will still have a player they maniacally hate. Also, I think 6 delistings, two 'pushed' retirements and the near-certain exit of Howe means enough exits, at a count of 9. Players like Watts/Grimes/Garland/Dawes/Dunn/Lumumba are needed for now, as mature depth if nothing else. Besides, there has to be someone left to delist in 2016 to make room for free agents Hannebery, Rich, Sidebottom, Harlett and Armitage. We could probably afford to offer every one of them 750k a year. I think this year is mostly one for monitoring opportunities, being ready to trade even our first pick to get a suitable premium target, and clearing out almost all of the outright not-AFL players. Again, I think 2016, when we've just won a final and smoothly transitioned to Goodwin, is when the final round of big moves will be made.

A low-priced 2 year deal for Walker. A mostly irrelevant token draft pick for Geelong. Walker gets two years to deal with his deficiencies without any expectations. If progress is made then he becomes a regular and gets a much better renewal, effectively replacing Pederson. If no, well, no biggie, we gave up one list slot in a shallow draft in a year when we were delisting 8(ish) players.

A side note about the players who didn't make the top 10. The next 5 are Brayshaw, Gawn, Tyson, Vandenberg and Salem. You'd think only another blight of injury could stop all five from moving into the top 10 next season. Touch wood. With Viney, McDonald and Hogan likely to stay up there, that would make it an incredibly young top-10.

Viney, Vince, McDonald, Hogan, Jones. There are no 'accidents' in that top 5. All five are the real deal and would be in the mix for a top-5 finish at any club. Of course, the other four need to be ready to lift their game next year if they want to keep in front of Jones, once his head is screwed back on straight.