Adam The God

I think coaching does play some part in maximising Oliver's dominance though. The fact that he, Petracca and Viney were all dominant contested ball winners this year and we often lost overall clearance, means that our coaching is not good enough in that area of the ground IMO. I think a new midfield coach will take Clarry to another level.

He is top 5 now. He doesn't need to dominate finals to be a top 5 midfielder. That's not a good argument. I think the "driving with my legs" and "[setting] up a few more attacking plays" are the things Oliver needs to and will work on, but consistency IMO isn't one of them. As @deanox's excellent post above highlights, Oliver's consistency and level for a player of his age is unmatched. I'd say Oliver is comfortably A grade, even on the cusp of A+ grade, but will walk to A+ status if he can hit the scoreboard more/get involved in scores from clearance more and accelerate out of stoppages more consistently.

I hope we've put a 5 year extension in front of Oliver. If we haven't, we're asleep at the wheel.

On the surface it's one year too many, but I would have thought we'd front load at least the first 2-3 years quite heavily. I like that he's signed from a culture stand point. I remain staunch in my belief that he needs to play forward or defensive mid/tagger. I'd be happy if he was collecting 15 possessions a game as long as he's mauling the opposition in the tackle count and making the right decisions when he does win the ball. My best 22 would have him starting in the forward pocket alongside Pickett and Weideman.

Let's say Cripps, Walsh and Williams were to play mid together (and I'm not convinced Williams will), they've got Curnow as well and that's about it.

Unless they see it as a chance to rebuild, but they'll want more than we can likely provide them.

I'm just trying to work out when we'll be able to get a deal done for Merrett. ;)

Listen to Patches when he posts. ?

My whole point was that they have an ordinary midfield. As we say on Demonland, midfields win premierships, not spines.

Disagree. If we've got Swiss cheese holes, they've got a hole right down the middle of a sandwich. Their midfield is essentially one player.

On ya, Coq. Well done, mate. Join the book nook with myself and @Moonshadow. Moonie will give you a pair of glasses upon entry.

I reckon they're massively overspending on guys who aren't core members of the team. If they were spending big and bringing in the likes of Patrick Cripps, sure, but they're spending massive dollars on half forwards and half backs. They are still yet to address their midfield. What happens when Charlie Curnow makes it back (if he does)? Where do they find the money to pay him? How do they find the money to fit in another midfielder or two that they desperately need? Carlton have a good spine, but their midfield is weak and unless they vastly improve this, they won't win a flag.

I reckon we shifted gear a while ago.

I wouldn't trade if it meant tearing at the fabric of the club, I guess I make it as a purely hypothetical observation. I still remember Max being beaten up by Port in Round 1 of 2019. It didn't seem like he was the cultural or spiritual leader there. This isn't a knock against him, just a knock against the idea that everyone follows his lead and we'd be nowhere without his leadership. I'd debate that, even from the outside looking in.

I'd do the future trade 1st trade. We'd probably need to throw in a second rounder too.

One of the gronky Facebook pages is reporting Oliver is disappointed with finishing 5th in the BnF and has therefore requested a trade. Utter rubbish from the Member's End, but thought I'd put it out there anyway.

Jet on both sides of the body. He actually moves a bit like Oliver IMV. Doesn't have that same burst from stoppages, but very smooth mover. Would love him in our midfield.

I like the idea of bringing in outside depth. We're not sure if Baker will make it, so we need to be looking at the Polec's, the Smith's and anyone else that can provide run and carry, and good foot skills. Likewise with the forwardline, we need to be target someone that can provide Weideman the support he needs, because I don't think we can trust McDonald to get his body right. I'd be fine with bringing in 5 or 6 blokes from other teams and maybe 2 or 3 draftees. The core IMV that has had the continuity (and needs the continuity) you refer to is the midfield and the backline. Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, Langdon have now had at least a year together (in the case of Langdon) and many more in the case of the other guys. Lever and May have played a whole season together. I like Tomlinson back there with them. Rivers gets another pre season under his belt, as do Pickett and Jackson. Add in Polec, Smith, Ben Brown and two more draftees and I think we'll be able to balance continuity with depth and improvement across all lines. In other words, I reckon we need to be pretty active, but we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater either.

I think Weideman tired. I thought the last stretch of his season was horrible, but the short turn arounds and the lack of KPP support have to be considered IMO. I'm frustrated by his slow development and sometimes he is too easily pushed under or off the push still. I think he's on the right track though. Adding Brown would take the pressure off Weideman and enable Jackson to roam. That is very enticing.

I love this sort of stuff, but what are you trying to tie this to? Are you saying that our list is far less experienced than the other two lists?

With another genuine winger beside him and I reckon Ed will take the next step. He spent half the first part of the season playing defensive cover and sweeper. Had elite metres gained. Needs to hit the scoreboard more, but IMV he was top 5 or 6 wingers in the league. I think next year we can expect better things from Lever too. I think he'll be helped by having two big bodies to take the two biggest opposition forwards, allowing him to zone off, plus the continuity gained from this year. I'm really excited by our defence. I think we can find one or two more plug and plays that will fit into that system. May, Tomlinson, Lever, Hibberd, Salem, Rivers, Lockhart and Melksham would be my picks for the back half.

It's very difficult to get elite talent like Clarry and Trac. We've never had two midfielders as good as them in my 33 years following the club, whereas very good ruckmen can be brought in off the rookie list. Time and again we've seen this. Midfields win flags.

Yeah, disagree. Langdon is elite. He has more levels to go to, but he's elite IMV. I can see why Lever doesn't get that tick. He was elite at Adelaide and I reckon he can get back to that sort of form next year. He and May got better as the year went on.

What difference? We've kept adding and building in a very similar way. They've been a project that's been building under Hinkley since 2013. You talk about little upgrades year on year. Well, how's Lever at the end of 2017, May at the end of 2018, Langdon at the end of 2019. We've brought in three elite acquisitions in three years to go with a midfield we essentially built between 2014-2016. We're a year or so behind them.

If you look at Port Adelaide, they've been nowhere for a long time. They may well win a flag this year. They had a superb 2018 draft by nailing three of their top 20 picks, but the key to their success this year has been consistency (outside of the Geelong game). Their team had some good players in the midfield and forwardline that they recruited and traded in over the years, but could never get it all to click consistently. They would often fall away in the second half of seasons. I'd argue we've had a similar yet somewhat different trajectory as a list and as a club. We've struggled for consistency within games, but managed to play most seasons to the very end (the exception being the final round of 2016 and 2017). But we've built an elite midfield core (the fundamental core of any aspiring premiership side), addressed our backline deficiencies by recruiting Lever, May, Hibberd, Tomlinson to go with Salem and now Rivers. We nailed our 2019 draft, bringing in a key tall and ruck, a zippy mercurial small forward and a gun half back (someone who can probably roll through the midfield in time too). These three compliment three areas of the ground. Rivers adds to the backline; Jackson adds to the KPF stocks and forward structure as well as an extra mid or ruckman; and Pickett adds pressure and creativity to our forwardline. I think one more off season of adding to this team, get the structures right and I think we'll see greater consistency next year. This will convert to more wins and should see a top 4-6 finish. We should be aiming for the flag next year and it's not as far off as people think.