Grand New Flag

Despite my strong opinion that Neeld must be sacked ASAP, I do feel sorry for him. He did not start the rot. He has given his all, and the decisions he has made have been what he thinks is best for the club. He will be bitterly disappointed. However, he simply was the wrong man for the job, he was a poor choice. He does not have the personal management or motivational skills required

I am disappointed that this story appears to have leaked. This is unprofessional. How the board managers this will be a big test for them. It is important that his dismissal is done with the highest level of compassion and professionalism. They appear to be off to a bad start.

gnf

nobody is picking on you ,i also dont get any confidence from the coach and dont like his demeanor

but being involved from top to bottom at local club level for over 30 years ive learnt a few things about sacking coaches and backstabbing them.

but as much as we might dislike somebody we learn to deal in cold hard facts

having an opinion on the current coach is fine and thats what makes your passion for our club admirable

hope you enjoy the weekend , as im looking to see who matches up on birchall

Thanks Jazza, I am not offended by anyone. I just love my club and I can see the end of it, I will do anything to attempt to get this club off the path that I see leads to extinction. I feel very strongly that we are making death tempting mistakes holding Neeld, I cant see any blue sky with Neeld, I only see further disaster. I hope I am wrong, but I have a history of reading these sort of things correctly. Obviously all are free to agree or disagree.

Go Dees, I will be at the game, nothing would make me happier than a truly competitive performance............. but I cant see this happening. When I say competitive I mean a less than 5 goal loss. Saying a 12 goals loss is a pass mark is disgraceful and makes me want to puke. That such talk comes from within the club, from within the coaching group simply further confirms to me that Neeld must go.

You keep saying it, but have nothing whatsoever to back it up. On the other hand, all reports on here from those who've had direct contact with the players contradict what you're saying.

Perhaps go and read the thread re the other night's meeting between Neeld, Craig, Jones and supporters.

What? You mean the reports from the media department of our club. What else are they going to say. These reports mean nothing, they are propaganda.

I think Neeld's hardest team to play against was his end goal, ie the end result of his strategy. What the. So he lied? I am not sure what you are saying but we are the easiest to beat, most mentally weak team I have ever seen.

I dont think it's entirely fair to be using a goal in 3 years half way through his contract, particularly considering that his investment into long-term picks (Hogan, Barry, Toumpas) wouldn't be included. Every team has players the recruit for the future. So what. None of these players are proven...... though Hogan does excite.

Personally I dont think there is another solution. I think he i a good coach and I like his strategy. What strategy?

I think the biggest cause of our poor performance has been due to the players; they dont have AFL level skills or fitness and are lazy. Getting the players up, building confidence, self belief, fitness, skills this is all the coaches responsibility. Remember 26 of the 42 are Neelds recruits. These are his hand picked troops.

The board will make their decision on what is best for the club and with PJ are in the best position to judge. People shouldn't be commenting that they should make the right decision and get rid of MN just because that's their personal view.

They will obviously weigh up where we are at, what MN's strategy is short-term and long-term, and the consequences of getting rid of him - financially and functionally (ie caretaker, and new coaches out there).

The majority of the board were elected by Jim and have played an active role in getting the club debt free. I think they of all people will be the most sick about the cost of the long-term strategy. It must kill them that their hard work has so quickly and easily been undone. These disgraceful performances were never part of the plan. The on-filed disaster has created our off field disaster.

Personally, its short-term pain for long-term gain. No this is short term pain creating ever bigger long term pain. We are now in survival mode, aspirations of premierships must be put on hold as all effort must now go into survival. You can forget about another big budget recruit. Not only would they not want to come to our toxic team, we simply can't afford now.

Wins will fix our issue, but I'd rather win more than 8 games a year like we have for the past 4 years. The AFL can't get rid off us yet because of TV rights ect, so what better time to do this and get this over with. Supporters will come back when we win... that includes next year not just this year. We have 2 years or they will merge, dissolve or relocate us in time for the next broadcasting contract. Negotiations for this start in 2 years.

Mate I wish I agreed with any part of this but my views are polar opposites.

why are they not improvements

how come other people dont see your WRITING ON THE WALL?

fitness backwards is a harsh line, it was 10 years behind every afl club and the BOARD not the fd wanted to bring it up to afl standard and they were told it will take 3 preseasons, now mn might not have wanted this but is doing as instructed re 3 YEAR PRESEASON fitness regime. thats why players were buggered before the start of last season and thats why some of them are battling this season please get that into your head

wake up yes

I don't want to be rude, but if you truly at the bottom of your heart believe we have not gone backwards, the club is not in danger of going under, and that Neeld is not significantly responsible, you have fallen for spin or you have blind faith.

Again tell me why he should be kept? Tell me what he has succeeded at? He is after all the statistical worst coach in the history of the game. There needs to be a compelling reason to keep him.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33930-collingwood-chasing-sylvia/page-5

You used Moloney, rivers and Martin all leaving as a direct result of the coach. No if's, but's or maybe's.

In my eyes, you are no better than the flesh-eating journalists looking for a easy target to feast on. That you are upset mark neeld is pushing culture change, and forcing the weeds out (Moloney etc) so that the roses (jones, Howe, garland, viney, hogan etc) can bloom, shows a distinct ignorance to where the on field problems previously bred. The ceiling for growth was so minor pre neeld, in comparison to now. There is a genuine unity in the playing group, there are no rats who want to undermine senior officials and a categorical "one in all in" mindset.

The past is done, we've covered that numerous times. That you can't see similarities between how Al Clarkson and Mark Thompson cleared out players who were detrimental to unity and team growth, is disappointing. The outsiders who feel that the club is worse off without gysberts, Moloney, petterd etc, may well be right in the short term. However, later this year, we will all see the growth and development that we are craving (and have been for 7 years). This was a proper "ground up rebuild". When Peter Jackson comes out and endorses mark neeld, but fine tunes the lines of communication and isolates the uncertainty, watch how this club turns around on and off field. Watch How we stay in games longer and put more pressure on opposition teams. Watch how our players link up better and control the footy more consistently. We are a lot closer than anyone can see, unfortunately the same shallow minded journalists who today pot the club, will be the same ones who heap praise on Craig, or Lyon, or Mission.

Say what you want about mark neeld GNF, he put his own reputation on the line a early on, and since then he has dealt with media, ex- players who were the root of the problems, and supporters like yourself, who have all tried to undermine him. It's a matter of when, not if, we start producing results on field. If you are that despondent with how our senior team is playing, head down to casey and see some of the future players coming through, and the game plan they are implementing.

You can't be for real. The culture is terrible, it is toxic, no player wants in, many in the team want out. Our players are not playing for each other, they are not playing for the club, its supporters, or the gurnsey. The culture is worse now than at any time in 30 years I have supported the club. I can't believe that anyone can fall for "I have fixed up the culture" spin. Just look at the way they are playing and act. I saw head down after 2 goals and 10 minutes last week. FFS! Can't you see the disaster, can't you see the culture is worse than ever?

Again I challenge you to tell us why the statistical worst coach in the history of the game (yes this is true), who has taken us backwards in the most dramatic of ways to a point the very existence of the club is in question should keep his job.

Come I want to here your case.

you asked

name something thats improved

gave you 3 answers and your still not happy

we get it YOU want him sacked and if they deliver another person you dont want as coach heaven help us

how come when answers dont suit you go somewhere else?

i hope they appoint dean bailey as coach and then we will see some feedback from the wehateneeldfaction

? None of the things you listed are improvements or things that Neeld has done well at. You have taken a long imaginative bow desperately trying to come up with anything he has achieved. The writing is on the wall for all to see, every part of our on-field performance, every statistic including fitness has gone backwards since Neeld arrived. Further and importantly the culture is worse than it has ever been. Neeld has completely failed to improve the culture, in fact he now resides over the worst culture this club has ever had. It is so toxic our better players want out. Hell we are among the worst teams in the history of the comp. Yet you guys somehow continue your blind faith. Blind faith that will take us to extinction. This is not scare tactics...... this is reality. Wake up!

he has upheld the 3 year fitness program and not melted into winning a couple of games to give into the falseness

he has kept younger players back and let them develop and not fallen for the trap of going for the easy fix

he is developing the team to play different and adjustable game styles, its apparently the new trend for clubs and hes taken that on board to the chagrin of unenlightened supporters

resisted the temtation to draft mids this year and took dawes and clark when they came up, big fellas dont appear on the open market often and a average mid wouldnt help the team this year

give me time and i will think of a few other things

i dont like the abusing of each other , but some getridofmn posters are putting up false reasons to get thier point across and are not seeing the forest for the trees

have a good weekend big fella

Talk about clutching at straws!

Again, I happen to know the PR blokes behind the "get Tassie a team" and the website they setup for the Tas Govt has a 'Latest News' tab. The 'latest news' is over 4 years old...

http://www.tassiefootyteam.com.au/news.php

You can whinge all you like about the current coach and our inability to get rid of him fast enough but don't scare Demons by saying we will be moved to Tasmania or lose our licence to Tasmania. I will shoot you down every time.

How about this?

When I get word that Tassie is interested again I will let everyone here know...

What are you suggesting? I used Hobart Devils as only an example.

The facts are that the AFL will look to merge, relocate or dissolve us if we remain uncompetitive and become insolvent. This is the terrifying reality. Jackson has said himself that we could be back to $5 Million in debt by the end of next season if performances don't improve. This would place us close to insolvent.

I ask you please tell me just one part of the coaching role that you think Neeld has done well? What KPI has he had success with? Please put forward a case on why he should remain as coach rather than just nit picking my comments.

You've called bs at me a few times now champ. Have a little balance to your views.

You've used Stef Martin walking out and the "pending" walk out of several other players. Only col Sylvia can walk out as a free agent, and if watts doesn't re-sign, good riddance as he hasn't proven himself as yet. Your one eyed anti neeld propaganda is slanderous, repetitive and put simply, you are a muppet. Put some credence to what you are saying, as currently you base it on 1 "player manager who you are BFFs with". Are you even a member? Or you are one of those who thinks you help the club by not paying up, and instead spin vitriol to whoever is willing to listen to you vile?

Mate, I may have called BS when I read it, but I have never made personal or slanderous comments about other posters. Further I have not made up quotes from other posters, what you have said above is not only untrue, it is insulting.

I only want our club to survive and than thrive forward. I feel extremely strongly about the direction and dire situation we are in. Yes, I do see the sky falling in. We can't pretend we are not in the position we are in. We can't pretend that losing Syliva, Watts and Frawley plus others would be good for our club. This walkout would be a potential fatal wound.

Guys, we do not have 5 years to become competitive. We will be the Hobart Devils in time for the next broadcasting contract. We have 2 years max to become competitive and remain solvent.

I dispute that the rebuild started last October............ that is straight out BS, I dispute that Bailey was just a continuation of Danihar but I accept we needed a new coach with which could install a more accountable game plan. The problem is we chose the wrong coach. We got our choice very, very wrong. As a result we must reconsider where we are at. A good coach can change the culture and develop a new more accountable game plan (which has been an out and out failure) while maintaining confidence, self belief, without have mass discontent from players, without having player walkouts. I will add I have never seen a more unaccountable game plan or worse culture than currently resides under Neeld.

We are not a club that has the luxury of being able to simply start again. We are on the ropes. If we could go back to 9 wins we could be saved, we cannot be saved when we have an average losing margin of 75 points and half the team want out. We must abandon the pursuit of a Premiership for the time being and put all effort into our survival.

I think few here realise the dire position we are in.

David King is stating the bleeding obvious. The hiring of Neeld as I have said since round 5, last year is the single biggest error this club has made since the dismissal of Norm Smith. The evidence for this is overwhelming. He continues to do untold damage, he may not have started the rot but he has brought this club to its knees.

On Monday our board meets, it is my view that the board have no choice but to dismiss Neeld.

It is true we are now in a no win situation. Due to our quickly deteriorating financial position which is a direct result of our appalling on-field performances since Neeld became coach, the cost of dismissing him will be a parting, painful, sting and final insult. It will put Melbourne deep into the red. However, let me make this very clear, the cost of maintaining him will be 10 fold that of paying out his contract.

In just 18 months under Neeld our club has gone from an exciting up and coming team, a club with no debt, a club with an expanding supporter base and genuine belief in future success, a club on the up. It is now a club that is the embarrassment of the league, a team that is measured against the worst teams in AFL/VFL history, a team that plays without spirit, confidence or self belief, a club battling to stay solvent with rapidly increasing debt, a club that is battling for its very survival.

Neeld must be dismissed ASAP so as we can start to heal, so a new coach with a modern game plan that suits the strengths and weakness of our list, who can install self belief and confidence can be appointed. At this point just about any stand in coach that can motivate and create confidence would be a massive improvement.

Failure to remove Neeld will result in the loss of a significant number of quality players come season end and this could be a nail in the coffin of our once great club. Changing coaches now may not save us but at least it gives us some hope, some chance of holding oour players, some chance of survival.

I simply cannot understand those on hear who come out in support of Neeld....... it is too illogical for me....... I don't get it. Are these people actually watching what is going on both on and off the field?

I am sure the board are aware of their fiduciary duties to the club and its members. I cannot see how they have any choice but to dismiss Neeld.

I hope that this tread can die with the imminent dismissal of Neeld and that we can once again start to look forward rather than back on what has been an complete and absolute disaster,

I again call on the board to uphold its fiduciary duty and dismiss Neeld. Not doing so could well be considered in a court as negligent.

One statistic in isolation means nothing.

He will be, but it's highly doubtful he'd just walk out on the Gold Coast.

If he did, GWS would pick him up with PSD #1.

I think there is a good possibility we could end up last.

He had a shocker, but he is normally much better than that.

Lets see if he bounces back this week. I think he will.

I voted yes, but many here will not.

What is of greatest concern is that my friends who are for a better word "sunny day Melbourne supporters" have completely left the building.

Don't bag these supporters, every club has them, every club needs them.

My mate who until last year still turned up to two or three games a year and when we were good turned up to 10 - 15 games will no longer go and watch Melbourne. He actually asked me to attend a non Melbourne game with him. He refuses to watch us, as he is sick of turning up to non competitive games. This hurts.

your half right

im sure the board may not have given this credo for the fd to follow, he even said this in an interview the other day. were on the right track. cut slash and burn and thats why getting the best out of players is not the job disciption at the moment.

the mistakes with the fd go back to the last 6 gtames of 2011 and he and all of us are paying for this

a sacking WILL bring renewed hope, but wont fix the endemic problems

this can only be fixed with a pure rebuild. i think thats what thier trying to do and somebody will be the scapegoat

remember if you want answers and some short term wins, we will be back here within 5 years

let it run its course and the NEXT term will hopefully give us reward

Thanks Jazza you make some good points,

However, changing culture and building confidence and self belief should not be mutually exclusive. A good coach can do both at the same time. We must get a coach that can do both tasks at the same time.

I know I am repeating myself, but I think people have missed the point.

The primary responsibility of any coach is to get the most out of his players. Neeld does not have the personal or management skills required to do this, Neeld does not have the motivational stills, he cannot install confidence, he cannot get the players to play for the gurnsey, the supporters, for themselves or for Neeld. Even if he was the best tactful coach in the world (which he is not) he would still be a failure as he does not have the fundamental personal skills required.

The quicker we rid ourselves the quicker we can start re-building confidence and self belief. The quicker we can start healing.

At this stage just about anyone would be better then Neeld. Regardless a new coach must concentrate on confidence and self belief.

Neeld must be replaced by a motivational coach. There is simply no upside leaving him til season's end.

Enough is enough!

I agree GNF with your comments - but what are our strengths??

I personally don't see to many if any strengths on field - we can't win contested footy consistently, we don't pressure for 4 qtrs - our ball use, decision making and execution are shocking there is not much room for any strengths.

On those facts as I see them all we can play is a high pressure game style and try create turn overs as our ball use will not allow us to play like a Geel, Syd etc

The reason I disagree with you is beacuse I don't believe and Sunday again proved it for me again that a different direction will not automatically work - A new coahc won't bring us instat results.

I don't care if it is Neeld or whoever who is coaching this club but a lot of hard work and development needs to be done as our Senior leaders don't have the leadership or willingness to will this side to a vicotory at the moment.

Just to clairfy - Although Neeld has dug his own hole to an extent he really has a list in it's infancy of development - there are not many moves he can make in 2013 or anyone else to fix this now

And I think your last point is way off the mark and pretty silly if you really believe it to be true - to keep it simple I think he uses some tactics from the pies but his game plan wouldn't be anywhere near identical.

It can be argued that Neeld does not utilise our players strengths and has forced them to play a style that a lot can't handle, but I reckon I can safely assume our players strengths aren't that good either

It is easy to look at our performance and then say we have no strengths, however this is not the case.

For example we have a relatively strong backline and forwardline.

To help take advantage of our strong forwards of Clark, Dawes, Howe even Watts and coming next season Hogan we need fast ball movement. We need to get the ball into our forward line before the opposition has had the opportunity to flood back. You don't get this by going around the boundary, kicking down the line. You get this by players being encouraged to take on the game, make the play from half back, play aggressively out of defence and move the ball quickly into the forward 50. Our talented forwards are simply wasted with slow predictable ball movement, out strength is not being taken advantage of.

Similarly we have a relatively strong backline, but again out game plan fails to exploit our strength. Instead of our defenders playing man on man which you would be confident of holding their own, they play some sort of zone defence. The zone is so poor, the mid-field turnovers so great, that the zone has no hope of being implemented in time meaning opposition players just run into and through our defence like it is match practice with scarecrows as defenders. With so many mid-field turn overs surely we are better off going man on man with an extra player back. I am sick of the ease in which opposition breakthrough our defence.

GNF - you'd find this hard to believe but I don't disagree with a lot of what you have to say - but some statement I think are just silly as it is not as simple as 1 problem that is wrong with MFC

Like the above one - A game plan as a style of play a team wishes to execute (in basic broad terms). When 18 pr22 players getting beaten in every 1 v 1 contest or if the team only truns up for 1 qtr please elobarate to me what you think the coaching staff can do to implement their game plan when every (bar probably a handfull) player on the ground is getting beaten in their positions

We had no winners on any line of the ground (none in defese, mids or forwards could put their hands up and say we won our position)

I think it is pretty shallow thinking if you believe the team is executing to Neelds game plan. I don't think they are executing a game plan at all.

I'm pretty sure Neeld and others said at the start of the game in the Fox lead up you can't just bomb - All i saw all game was players boming the ball to position - are the players taking the [censored] or do they not listen to instructions??? WTF

We played ok in the 3rd when Freo dropped their pressure - I can only assume there is too much work left to do by too few players

I think Neeld needs to be blamed for the state of the team but at least acknowledge that the MFC played 1 qtr of comepetitive footy and it took them until the 3rd qtr to do it and that is what angers met he most

Analyise the 3rd qtr game style to get an idea of the game plan - the rest is unacceptable rubbish

I don't believe the game plan matches the strength and weaknesses of our list. As just one example: I think we all agree that our biggest deficiency is our midfield, and thus clearance work. Certainly we have a lot of trouble getting our hands on the ball. The game plan we are currently playing, call it "Collingwood 2010" is well known and superseded. It relies on a dominant midfield as the ball is kicked out of defence, down the line, towards what should be a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 situation in Melbourne's favour. However, we are not achieving the advantage as the opposition know exactly where we are going to kick it. The game plan theory is that if things don't turn out to plan, you get a contested situation and at least the ball should be able to be taken over the boundary between half back and the wing. If we had a dominant midfield and were winning the clearances this would be a good thing, however with a very weak midfield this is a loss as the chances of winning the clearance are heavily backed with the opposition.

We should not be using this game plan. Not only is it old, and out-dated, to such an extent all teams know how to play against it and defeat it, it DOES NOT MATCH THE STREAGHTH AND WEAKNESSESS OF OUR LIST. To the contrary it further exposes our weak midfield. No wonder we are being smashed, no wonder we have no confidence.

I could go on and on and talk about other examples that our game plan does not match our teams strengths.

What I will say is that a good coach does not simply copy an old Premiership Game Plan which everyone has studies and understands. They create their own game plan that matches the strengths and weakness of their players and gets the opposition guessing. Unfortunately our last 2 coaches have only be interested in implementing something old rather than tailor make their own.

Yes GWS

Let me preface what I am going to say, by saying I went to Crown to watch the game on the big screen, I walked out 5 minutes before half time, absolutely disgusted by what I saw

Unfortunately for the next few days we are going to have topic after topic, with page after page of the same thing, what is it going to achieve, nothing, personally I regard the playing list as a shot duck mentally, it is going to take a lot of hard work to get it anywhere near being a conistent side

But I also don't think drastic changes to anything at the Club is going to be the answer.

I think the problem is nobody, from the President downwards, has any idea why, when we send a side out who have been professionally prepared with structures and game plan in place, it all falls to bits so easily, does anybody on here apart from blaming the coach, we are fit enough, we have enought skilful players.....it is not the game plan, because that is so basic....so what is it, it is not the players not playing for Neeld, that is a cop out

You can see Neeld and his team being as frustrated as the supporters, he doesn't want to have the whole team behind the ball for the whole game, but we needed it yesterday

The only glimmer of hope yesterday and I didn't watch it, was the report we went back to some semblance of structures etc in the third quarter, the playrers pulled their finger out and we actually won a quarter

We have some talent on our list, but to see them not produce it is galling

The game plan is a significant factor.

We got rid of 14 players last year - we can't get rid of the whole list.

If we have any chance of a furure it is by giving the players and supporters a clean slate (hope) and that starts with the coach leaving - then players/coaches rs with bad attituteds etc.

Add to that the 12 we go rid of in 2011 and Neeld is responsible for turning over 26 of 42 players. More than half the list.

Make no mistake, these are Neelds hand picked troops. If he picked players that can't play, are not up to it, and most importantly don't try, then THIS IS HIS FAULT.

He needs to be put out of his misery.

........................... and there are still people who think Mark Neeld should be allowed to coach out the season!!

I dont get it!

No one can deny Watts has been appallingly managed since he came to the club. There has been a lack of mentoring to such an extent he has needed to go outside the club for a mentor (Multhouse), he has been used as a scape goat by Neeld, he has been publically humiliated on several occasions. As such his development and confidence has suffered. Add this disgusting behaviour towards him by Melbourne supporters and consistent losses. Who would be surprised if he wants to leave?

All arguments aside, it would be an unmitigated disaster for the club if Watts: our #1 draft pick, Watts: our poster boy, Watts: our great white hope, in the footsteps of former #1 draft pick Tom Scully, turned his back on the club. Regardless of your view of him as a player it would be a deliberating wound to the club.Despite talked up traded player(s), there would simply be no way to sugar coat it.