Grand New Flag

Is it Neelds fault that Watts was played earlier than he should have been?

If it Neelds fault that Watts lacks hunger and heart?

If Jack leaves because he lays the blame for not living up the hype at MFC then I hope he has a good look at whether he has done everything to give the most to the MFC.

If Jack leaves because he wants to be part of a successful team I hope he understands he will be held higher creating that at MFC and not jump on the coat tails elsewhere.

Happy for him to stay but if he does want to leave there will be plenty of interest and we should benefit to position to get the mids we desperately need.

I somewhat agree. However, I am not sure this is the point. The point is: How has it all come to this?

Absolute crap.......You don't like him, big deal......I can see a lot of things in our defence that have improved.....I think you are just blinded by hate and any improvement the team has will not be acknowledged by you.......

Did you just say improvement?????????

Are you kidding, we are at least a 10 goal worse team than when he took over. We are a worse team then even last year. We have won just one game (not including expansion teams) since Neeld took over.

Mate, hate to break it to you, but we are going backwards, we are being compared with the worst teams in the history of the competition!!!!!! Statistically we worse than Fitzroy in all but Fitzroys last season. What is worse is that we have a young team of 1st and 2nd round draft picks, we should be improving.

Can I remind you we won 8.5 games in 2010 and 2011, including some big wins against top 8 teams.

The only thing I am blinded by is how pathetic we have become on-field since Neeld took over.

Incredible comment.

Watts has been managed appallingly since the day he arrived at the club. It was my hope Neeld would put an end to this poor management. How wrong was I.

Neeld making him a scape goat for the round 2 flogging was disgraceful. According to Neeld he had the flu. As such he should not have been playing. Blind Freddy could see he was struggling to run that night. Neeld subbed him off, but instead of coming to his defence and admitting that in hindsight he should not have played as he was still suffering the side effects of the flu, Neeld publically sprayed him and then dropped him. It was unprofessional, and disgusting publically humiliation. Neeld (not for the first time) made him into a scape goat for the teams terrible performance. Despite being sick Watts was far from our worst that night. In fact I will say that half the team played worse than him.

The following week he was then left on the boundary as an emergency, while hacks who played worse against Essendon and have 10% of his skill played.

Absolute appalling player management. Its as if Neeld went out to try and destroy this kids self confidence. It worked. No wonder he wants out under Neeld.

What are you going on about? Ablett left the cats or is that differant. He left for money and missed out on a flag. Do you mean the leadership group which has tolerated sub standard performances for years? Another post has already stated some of his best football has been under Neeld. Running away won't make him stronger. If we can get a suitable trade then so be it.

Ablett equals 1 player. Not 5 of your top 10 over 2 seasons.

Ok then.....I'll just go out the back yard and pick a successful coach from my coaches tree, shall I?.......Which one would you like

a/ One that the players love??

b/ One that the supporters love??

c/ One that can rebuild in 6 months???

d/ One that can change the culture and playing group immediately??? (if not yesterday)

You pick..... and make sure that he is the right one....One that can change everything NOW........But don't be wrong because you will be the one whingeing and moaning when he doesn't.....

The damage that Neeld has and is still doing is untold. It is a unprecedented disaster.

It is hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job. At this stage anyone would be better than Neeld.

Carlton and Freo are certainly keen from what i have heard, not sure who the other six would be, North were in the mix last year weren't they?

I know as a fact the Carlton are all over Watts. Multhouse has approached him personally, plus Carlton players. No doubt an orchestrated campaign. They would "love" to have him.

We all know your views.........You do not have to rant on and on and on about it...........You highjack every thread with your anti Neeld sentiments..........I don't think you have posted in any thread where you have not called for slash and burn of Neeld......Geezzz...

Bossdog: I highjack every thread because of the seriousness of the situation. I truly believe we are in a death roll. Doing nothing or pretending things are not as they are will bring us to extinction.

By now most here should know my opinion. After round 5 last year I started writing posts outlining the terrible choice we made in making Neeld Coach. I said that he had divided the players, he had lost the players before he even coached his first game, I said Neeld did not have the personal skills or management skills to be head coach, I said after round 6 Moloney and Rivers would walk, midseason I spoke of a major falling out (fight) between Neeld and Martin and that he would never play for Melbourne again. I spoke of a falling out between Jurrah and Pettard with Neeld......... but few listened.

I told all that would listen that Neeld was the greatest mistake since firing Norm Smith and that if we did not remove him quickly he would drive us into extinction. I said we were in a slow motion train crash.

I was and still am called an alarmist, a nutter, other people asked for me to be banned from this sight, however, everything I have said on this subject has turned out to be true.

This season, I have said that as things currently stand, Frawley, Sylvia and Watts would leave season end. Again as recently as yesterday I have been smashed.

My information has never been made up, it has come from within the playing group and player managers.

I love this club and l will do anything I can to help ensure its long term viability and survival. I have made significant donations to this club via debt demolition. I only want to see my club survive.

It is time for those who still have their head in the sand to wake up. We are deep in survival mode. We should no longer be looking at Premierships, we must put all effort into survival. Make no mistake, we have 2 to 3 years to turn this club around or we will be relocated or merged in time for the next broadcast contract. If we lose more senior players that task will be close to impossible. Its time to look at the big picture, everything must be done to hold all our top 25.

I will make things very clear to all who will listen.

Mark Neeld may not be the person who started the rot, however, he is not the person for our club. He has divided our playing group, he has lost our players, he does not have the motivational or personal skills required. He is a cancer, he is part of the problem rather than the solution. He was a terrible choice in head coach.

The ONLY chance we have is to fire Neeld immediately, replace him with a motivational coach that can unit the players and do whatever we can to land Roos or then next best experienced coach. Only then may our players stay. Only then may we survive.

This is the train wreck I told you all was coming. I am devastated.

We must move quickly while there is still time. I again call on the board to fire Neeld immediately.

Blame the spin and constant conditioning of supporters, lowing our expecations by our failed coach for this. The problem is it also lowers the expectations, confidence and self belief of our players.

The pass mark given for the Richmond game makes me sick. Hell we were smashed. If it was not for their poor set shots combined with our excellent conversion rate per forward 50 entry, the losing margin would have again been embarressing.

Enough of this crap!

Lets get this straight. A player manager who looks after all of Moloney, frawley, rivers, Sylvia and watts seeks you out to tell you that all of these players are seeking a trade because of mark neeld, just so you can run to demonland and create a large enough protest and have mark neeld sacked.

And my head is in the sand?

Perhaps you should read my posts before making comment. Show me where I said any of this? Its total BS?

Mate, if you don't want to believe what I am saying, that is fine, keep you head in the sand, but if you are going to quote me quote me accurately. Also please consider your comments with the predictions I made last year. I was smashed for what I said on here, mid-season I said Moloney and River would walk, I said Martin had a massive fight with Neeld and would never play for Melbourne again. I said Neeld was losing the players with a militant approach. You guys smashed me and at the end of the season almost everything I said would happen turned out to come true.

Spin and bs? http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=2013&PlayerName1=Stef+Martin&PlayerName2=&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&Compare=Compare&SelectedPlayers=2081%2C have a look at each players stats and tell me if you think we actually lost ANYTHING substantial. I'm not saying pedersen is a world beater, but you used him as an example. Martin was 3rd or 4th in line for ANY position he could play here, and at Brisbane he still can't get a solid run at it. You do realise some players just aren't up to it? You used Martin as an example of a player who left directly of not getting along with mark neeld. You then go on to claim you "know" that Sylvia, watts and frawley are all headed off, even though frawley is contracted and watts can't leave anywhere unless via trade or PSD. I put it to you that you are a muppet and you live in a drama filled fantasy land where you think all players and coaches at other clubs get along like BFFs from high school.

Nothing but hysteria and tunnel vision in any of your mindless rants. Try finding something positive to look at. Like the fact we have found a couple of very commendable players in dean terlich and Matt jones, or that we played with some genuine mongrel and fire on Sunday. We all know the scoreboard hasn't gone as well as we wanted, but at least we aren't holding onto as many poor players as we were over the last 2-4 years.

This is what I am hearing from a player manager who directly looks after a number of Melbourne players including one of the following:

Watts: seriously considering asking for a trade, has been approached by a number of clubs. Is said to interested in Carlton, Multhouse has been his mentor and he wants to play for a coach he believes in, and believes in him.

Frawley: Likely to ask to be traded

Sylvia: Likely to take free agency

This is on top of last years walk outs. Make no mistake Martin, Moloney and Rivers all left as a direct result of the coach. That is 6 players in 2 years. 5 of which are in our top 10.

Get your head out of the sand!

What are you talking about?

What blind faith?

Am I a supporter if I would give him until August before I removed him? Just because a number of posters do not want the immediate removal of the coach does not mean that they are happy with the status quo or that they would not endorse a new coach for 2014.

And, you and all the others who demand immediate removal, are just not giving any solid reason for Jackson to - 21 days into his job - make a decision like that while still trying to restrucutre the FD.

Are we not trying to be more professionally run? Do we not want Jackson to make his recommendations and have his will - AFL endorsed - to be implemented?

rpfc: You make a very good point in regards to Jackson. Although I feel August would be too late, 21 days is not enough. You would think the board is waiting for a recommendation from Jackson, simply he has not yet had enough time to make that recommendation. We would all prefer to wait a little longer and make a the best decision on timing, and transition.

oh really, we are 'set to', it is 'likely' huh? Please inform us of how you can make this prediction and then describe how it is you have the insight to hold Neeld responsible for this. You know damn well that we MIGHT lose ONE of those players and that will be for a host of reasons, one of which MIGHT be Neeld. In reality if anyone leaves it will be because another club throws more money at them - that is the only real reason anybody goes anywhere. Some of you blokes are so spineless it is disgusting, why come on here with your drama queen alarmist rubbish making statements as if you know something the rest of us don't when you are clearly just talking CARP. If this is not the case, why don't you put your aggots on the line and bet me right now, TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, that we don't lose all of Watts, Sylvia and Frawley this year. There is no chance you will do that, because you have no idea if the confident prediction you have made will actually come true because you are a poser, furthermore, you know damn well that your common sense, if you have any, tells you that such an outcome is actually incredibly unlikely.. but you go ahead and say it anyway, for what reason? I don't know ask your therapist. The other extremely annoying thing about it is that half the people here burn calories every week arguing just how rubbish Watts, Sylvia and Frawley are.. one whisper in the media they might be leaving and it's all of a sudden ammunition against Neeld. Unbelievable.

Mate, there is no need to get personal or aggressive. I am entitled to my opinion and also entitled to voice my concerns in what I see and hear. What I hear is not C Grade gossip but comes directly from a close friend who is a player manager and directly looks after a number of Melbourne players.

If you care to look at my predictions and concerns revolving around Neeld, which I started publishing this time last year, you will see that virtually all my fears, concerns and predictions turned out to be true.

Your post demonstrates classic blind faith.

I bet you unplugged all your computers and waited to fight robots at the turn of the millennium! Have a look at what you are saying. Martin left, and in a Brisbane team screaming for someone to grab a tall forward post, Stef Martin languishes playing for the Brisbane reserves. Jared rivers left for Geelong, has played 3 games and is stated to be out for another 2-4( I guess that's mark neelds doing as well mate?)

And for the 100th time, Brent Moloney had been at the club for 8 years, a club bereft of on-field leaders since junior was pushed, and instead of working hard, he chose the option of feeling pity for himself and trying to create a divide between the players.

They've all left. Boohoo! No amount of your Moloney-esque sulking about that is going to change it. You frequently bring up gysberts too. Well hasn't that set the club back! Ill have a little wager with you, grand old flag. I put it to you that both gysberts and Martin are delisted by their clubs before mark neeld is moved on by us. You can throw Jared rivers into that deal as well if you like. The loser of the bet can start a thread titled "apology to demonlanders for being so wrong"!

Clearly I think this post is spin and BS. As an example are you trying to tell me that Paterson who is a direct replacement to Martin is better than Martin???? I could go on and argue most of the points here, but it is circle work, people no hear have read it before and know my opinion.

How anyone can defend Mark Neeld is beyond me. It is defending the indefensible.

I have said this before and I will say it again.

The only hope we have of holding onto our senior players is to change coaches imminently. Neeld is a absolute disaster. Last year Moloney, Rivers and Martin left as a direct result of the coach, this year we are set to lose Sylvia, & Watts with Frawley likely to ask for a trade. I am not making this up. Pretending these players are not important and brushing this crisis under the doormat is beyond stupidity. River's may have said he wanted to play finals, no doubt this is true, but he would have stayed at the MFC if we had a coach he believed in. This is not speculative talk, this is well known in player management circles.

We must change coaches to someone that can create self belief and inspire our players as soon as possible. Someone who not only believes in our players, but also makes football enjoyable for our players again. The very existence of our football club depends on it. We are starting to resemble a 2nd division team that is nothing more than a player feeder club to the 1st division clubs.

A head coach is responsible for the entire football department. This includes on-field performance, list management, player satisfaction, culture, confidence, self belief, and recruiting. I challenge people to tell me any part of the job Mark Neeld has had success in.

I love the MFC and I fear the way we are headed. I will not stop until Neeld has gone.

To me the continued support for Neeld is mindboggling. Simply it is beyond me that anyone can support, what has been a disaster of an appointment. How much more pain do you guys want? Talk about blind faith!

Obviously in dream land by saying this. But imagine a 3 way swap:

1 - frawley to GC.

2 - Ablett to Cats

3 - Harry Taylor to us

Forget Harry Taylor. He will NEVER come to the Dees.

I just completely disagree. See comments.

Neeld is the coach - for good or bad. having 4 months of caretaker means you take the fear of having a 'lame duck' coach and merely confirm it. No a 4 month coach could possibly end up with the main gig. Look at Roos. The point of having a caretaker for such a long period of time is to essentially give them a extended interview and at the same time allow the greatest possible opportunity to nail the best coach available. It would be a significant head start on other teams.

I am intrigued to see how this group goes in the next three months. I know they are not going to win many games but there are about 15 players playing for their careers and I would prefer they do it with a coach that is a chance to be coaching them next year.

Craig, Viney, or Rawlings as caretaker is a waste for 5 games. If we are doing it for 12 games it becomes nuclear waste. I simply disagree, we are going backwards, Neeld is not our man. There is no point in keeping someone once you know there not the one. Maybe Craig, Viney, or Rawlings can develop some confidence inside. Once confidence return we will realise are players are not as poorly skilled as currently displays suggest.

No, I don't think that yesterday will save Neeld, but effort like that for the next 4 months will give him a chance. Surely this is not good enough. This is not the public service.

He is not a cancer and he is not cause of our off-field issues (he is only subjected to them and suffering from them). He is head coach he is ultimately responsible for everything on field, its a train wreck. He is responsible.

Agian, we have the bulk of the list we had before Neeld got here and ALL the good young players that are the future. Most are playing without confidence and without a midfield. Simply untrue, over half the list (26) have been brought in since Neelds arrival. They are his hand picked troops.

Neeld will own their lack of confidence and their effort - but I won't put our midfield at his shoes and that is why we are at where we are at. Everyone knows the main problem is our mid-field. So why did Neeld waste so many picks on KP rather than mid-fielders. The loss of Moloney is 100% Neeld. Sorry Neeld is head coach, recruiting is his responsibility, he does own the mid-field

Excuse me?

So we are throwing 23 years of irrelevance on that fateful decision on Smith. And nothing unrelated to that or since then has had more repercussions than hiring Neeld?

Talk about hyperbole. Our issue isn't the one obvious decision that we screw up - it's the death by a thousand cuts that we have chosen since 65.

We stayed at the Junction too long. We didn't move into Olympic before Collingwood when we could. We allowed ourselves to be run like the other amateur clubs aligned with the MCC, we went over the salary cap and got hit with penalties that led to our cliff falling in 2007, we went into debt, we fired a CEO then the coach and kept the CEO - all in the same day, we let go of James McDonald, we have spent picks on players for little return in 2007, 8, 9, and 10.

This malaise meant that we were the last club to get decent facilities, we have an small, ageing supporter base, we have a dearth of good players 25 - 29 that we drafted, we have a number of kids that have not made it because they were never up to it, and had a administration that has been all over the place and is now being run by an AFL-assisted appointee.

Neeld doesn't get a look in as a cause of our troubles.

The players have a lack of confidence in each other and themselves, and our drafting and trading has had mixed results.

These are hardly debilitating or unrectifiable.

Neeld needs another three months of what we showed yesterday to keep his job, but don't tell me he is the reason for all our ills.

If the club could kick the backside of those that are to blame for its issues - it would have a very sore behind.

I am not arguing with any of this. Except surely you too are not know comfortable that yesterday was a pass and all Neeld needs to do to hold his position is get the team to try for the next 15 weeks?!?!

I just see your post as a completely different subject.

We are stuffed, no its not all Neelds fault, yes he is along way down the list on the horrors board.

What I am saying is that the appointment of Neeld has been an unimaginable error by the board on the same level as the firing of Norm Smith. Simply both were appalling decisions that have both cost the club untold damage.

Not having a crack just giving you an idea for a new thread GNF

I think the problem with what you're saying is that current board approved Neelds appointment and I beleive have also green lighted a full list reubild...

I do not believe this statement.

Like many here I have my connections inside the club. I am certain the board was not of the view that we needed a complete re-build when Neeld took over in 2011. If you believe this you are falling for Neelds spin. In 2011 the board believed we needed to harden up and needed to be more defensive and accountable. They did not want our kids to develop without accountability and believed a tougher coach would be better in developing our young, early draft picks. I agree with this. Unfortunately the board chose the wrong coach. They did not expect this level of redundancy, no one expected our team to deliver this level of ineptness. The red flags appeared for me from the very first press conference. The problem is that until now the board has had its hands tied. Simply you can't dump a new coach without giving him an opportunity. Most of us saw what was going on and have gasped, and have chosen to look away or put our head in the sand, wanting, wishing ,willing that the board was right, that the Neeld experiment would work. That Neeld knew what he was doing and positive results would soon be seen. What we have instead is a complete, utter and absolute train wreck. Pretending it is anything else is denying blatant reality.

Let me remind you in late 2011 when we were looking for a new coach, so were 3 other teams. It was widely considered that of the four, Melbourne had the best young list and was the most advanced in any re-build. We were 4 years into a re-build, our list was full of young 1st and 2nd round draft picks and numerous top 5 picks completed with a smothering of older experienced players with finals experiance. We had won 8.5 games for the previous two seasons, with some tinkering we were set to continue our progress up the ladder.

What has happened, the performances that we have now become accustomed to, are a result of poor coaching at every level. From developing an appropriate on-field game plan that matches the strengths and weaknesses of the list, to developing confidence and self belief, to recruiting and list management. Ultimately everything on-field is the responsibility of the head coach. Neeld has failed terribly at all performance indicators. The results are there for everyone to see. This disaster is of Neelds doing. It is time for those who still have their head in the sand and have blind faith to wake up. Our club is at the cross roads. Make no mistake if we are this pathetic in 3 years time the AFL will look to merge or relocate us in time for the next broadcast deal. Neeld saying the club is 5 years away from finals may well be true, but its true because Neeld has lead us into the abyss. The game against Richmond has again highlighted to all the horror story Neeld has developed and how far backwards we have gone since he became head coach. It is now a good performance to only lose by 7 goals to a mid-tier team who only two years ago, before Neeld s appointment was considered in a very similar position and stage of development to Melbourne. Neeld has literally driven us over a cliff and if he does not go soon he will drive us to extinction.

The board is no longer in a position that they must give Neeld a go before firing him. The writing is well and truly on the wall for all to see. They must take responsibility and accountability for their poor decision. It is now time the board do what they must do and rid us of this cancer. As I have said now for over 12 months, appointing Neeld is the single biggest mistake since sacking Norm Smith.

No point playing Watts at Casey unless he is unfit. He is far to skilled for the VFL and as such does not need to work hard enough to get his 25 possessions and be in the best.

He must be brought in place of Tompus, he must play forward, rotating on the wing.

do you mean this game >

Melbourne v Richmond MCG, Sunday 21 August, 4.40pm (AEST)

TEAMS

MELBOURNE

B: Colin Garland, James Frawley, Clint Bartram

HB: Aaron Davey, Jared Rivers, Joel Macdonald

C: Sam Blease, Tom Scully

HF: Jack Trengove, Stefan Martin, Jeremy Howe

F: Ricky Petterd, Jack Watts, Brad Green

Foll: Mark Jamar, Colin Sylvia, Nathan Jones

I/C: Lynden Dunn, Cale Morton, Jamie Bennell, Neville Jetta, Liam Jurrah, Jordie McKenzie, Daniel Nicholson

In: Brad Green, Jamie Bennell, Neville Jetta, Liam Jurrah

Out: Luke Tapscott (soreness)

OUT:Clint Bartram, Brad Green (retired), Jared Rivers, Brent Moloney (free agency), Stefan Martin Ricky Petterd Cale Morton Jamie Bennell Liam Jurrah, Tom Scully (),

RICHMOND

B: Bachar Houli, Alex Rance, Will Thursfield

HB: Brett Deledio, Jayden Post, Matt Dea

C: Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, Shaun Grigg

HF: Daniel Jackson, Tyrone Vickery, Shane Edwards

F: Robin Nahas, Jack Riewoldt, Jake King

Foll: Angus Graham, Shane Tuck, Nathan Foley

I/C: Matthew White, Mitch Morton, Mitchell Farmer, Jeromey Webberley, Ben Nason, Jamie O'Reilly, Brad Miller

In: Matthew White, Jeromey Webberley, Ben Nason, Jamie O'Reilly

Out: Jake Batchelor (shoulder)

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-match-preview/melbourne-v-richmond-20110818-1ize7.html#ixzz2Tn9LrRIXNo Round 13, 2012

No, that is a 2010 game. I am comparing to Round 13, 2011

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/scoreboard/20110141403/2011014/14/

This club has fallen so far under this coach that a 7 goal loss to a mid-tier team is now considered a positive. FFS!

As has been previously pointed out, this match just two years ago was billed as the battle of the up and comers....... the teams on the rise, the likely future dominant teams in the AFL. The winner was in the 8. At the time we were well in front in terms of development, had lower draft picks and won by 4 goal, Watts was a standout that game. Today we are a laughing stock of the competition, are widely considered as worse than Fitzroy, we are in consideration with the worst of the worst teams in the history of the competition. As a result the club is on its knees. Meanwhile Richmond have continued the long, slow march up the ladder. It is indeed a tale of two clubs. Simply one team made the right choice in coach and the other made a disastrously wrong appointment.

Yes, we had a crack but don't be fooled by a semi competitive performance against a mid-tier club. We still lost by 7 goal, we were smashed, if it was not for our excellent forward 50 conversion rate and Richmond's inaccuracy, the game would have be all over by half time and we would have been again humiliated on the score board. The performance was still appalling, as has been virtually all performances since Neeld took over.

So what has happened, what has brought us to this point? How did it all come to this? Well there is a long tale to be told, but there is just one common denominator, and that is Mark Neeld.

Neeld has squandered our talent, failed to develop our kids, failed to implement a positive or winning culture. He has divided the players, installed an inappropriate out dated defensive game plan and if that's no bad enough he now tells us we are a further 5 years away from playing finals.......... and that is if everything goes right. By any measure, he has utterly and completely failed.

Mark Neeld has destroyed the Melbourne Football Club, he is personally responsible for where we are now. He has personally recruited more than half our list (26), our players are now his hand picked troops. Yes, we do have other internal problems but there can be no excuse for the unprecedented backward path this club has taken under the watch of this coach. The incompetence is breathtaking. How anyone can support him, how he still has a job coaching is completely beyond me.

It is time to cut this guy. We chose the wrong coach. He has done untold damage and is continuing to hurt this club everyday he remains in charge. I truly see Neeld as the source of most of our failure and pain, and personally responsible for it. I hate him for what he has done to our playing list, our club. It is time for the people who are responsible for his appointment to take responsibility for their poor choice.

I again call on the board to immediately terminate the dud of all duds, Mark Neeld.

It is beyond me how anyone can defend Mark Neeld.

Defending the indefensible!

Right about Sheahan, apart from that MN's work doesn't look that bad (see below)

Are you serious?

On paper it looks poor, in performance it looks diabolical.

Just watched the 2000 QF highlights.

Good God I needed that.