sue

If that is applied as a sign of deliberate OOB, you wouldn't want to risk a look-away hand pass near the boundary line. As long as there is a target nearby I don't think umpires should guess the mental state of the players. It's hard enough to guess whether the OOB is a skill error or not without adding more mind-reading.

As someone who has despaired of OD's despair, I have to say OD has been unusually positive several times this year.

I think we are really in furious agreement. I don't for one minute suggest winning is not the goal. If we haven't worked out how to win the close ones, perhaps it is because we have had so little practice of being close in recent years. If we are still losing close ones frequently in 2017 and beyond I'll be worried.

So the man who WON'T BE SILENCED has cancelled an appearance at the South Bendigo Football and Netball Club on Saturday. Why does anyone in AFL-land (or the universe) take this guy seriously.

Your position is that no matter what you only deserve to win if you kick the highest score and actually win, no ifs buts or exceptions. But logically there are - surely if we were 20 goals ahead by half time and then 10 players got injured by the grandstand collapsing on them at half time and then the opposition had only 12 opponents and kicked 21 goals, I trust you wouldn't say we didn't deserve to win. And in-between that ridiculous scenario and yesterday's match there has to be a point where it flips over to 'didn't deserve to win'. So we can reasonably argue about where that point is. And more importantly the extent of improvement. But I find it downright silly to just say unless we win it means nothing.

Dank: "I don't have enemies or debts" Dunno, about Dank, but the sort of people I had debts to aren't the sort who shoot up houses. The fact that he used those words speaks volumes.

Some of those boundary thrown-ins were terrible, but drawing a long bow to say they were on purpose. Not that 65metre penalty was something else.

Well a lot better than a 10 goal thrashing for a start. Though to read some of the stuff on here, you'd think it was a bad as that.

I really admire the influence you think the majority of supporters on Demonland has on what actually happens. I wouldn't be happy if the majority of players hated losing. I'd expect 100% of them to. What they think matters, you'd need to find an electron microscope to see the effect of our influence.

I wonder what this thread would have looked like if we had managed to squeeze over the line - which could have happened as it can in any close game. What would all those posters who like wearing hair-shirts have said. Probably that the scoreboard flattered us.

OD, we are not the players. Our mental attitude does not affect what will happen in the next few hours. I too enjoy wins and I hate losses. But I also can see that a closely fought loss is more enjoyable (or less hated, take your pick) than a miserable pummelling by 186 points.

I think both of us know what Praha meant. What would you prefer a 10-15 goal loss or a competitive effort where we go under by a few goals? A win would of course be better than a 1 point loss.

This sort of statement which several people have made puzzles me. Surely the obvious next question is "Why would he love him?" But the question seems to go unasked. Leaving aside some romantic attachment or blackmail, the only sensible answer is that Roos sees that Dawes brings something of value to the team. It's reasonable to say "I don't see what Roos sees in him" rather than this 'loves him' nonsense. More interesting to discuss what he might see in him that you don't.

Is Misson responsible for this mess?

Much better than Hawthorn's OAPs. It'd be hard to leave Hawthorn for obvious reasons.

And I expect/hope that that loss will be motivation in 2017 to never lose a winnable game.

unfortunately Saints fans could well say the same given North's loss.

I'd be more impressed with the importance of selection errors if people could point to selection errors in games that we won. As others have said, there is a lot more to a loss or victory than selection errors.

Good to see the selectors have replaced Jack Watts.

Fortunately for the experts on this forum their teams never get to play so we never know if they'd have done any better. Sorry chaps, I have more confidence in the pros who have more information than we do even if they make lots of mistakes. It is harder to make mistakes if you are a selector for Hawthorn.

The fact that they have acknowledged they've made mistakes in the past gives me more confidence in them, not less.

Not sure what's worse, the commentary or the umpires. These 50m penalties when a player is inside the 'zone' when a mark is taken and just wants to run forward, in no way affecting the player with the ball, are ridiculous. Why should the player have to run off for 5-10 metres at right angles before going forward? What if they run off at 80 degrees, 70....? When does it worry the umpire - who knows.

Would require a fair amount of computing power. But possibly not far off. Certainly doable off-line already I'm sure.

The biggest problem is for the TV broadcast. Hard to adjust the aperture for half the shot in bright light and the rest in shadow. Can't say how it is for the players or even for a spectator doomed to be there, but it is bloody awful on TV,

But in two of those GFs the Hawks demolished their opponents by large margins. Opponents would have thrown in the towel pretty early on making it easy for the hawks to get unusually good stats.