IvanBartul13

Putrid example Nuffy - Neitz was a state of origin rep in 1994 at 19, kicked six in a game in 1993 as an 18yo and was 2nd b+f and all-australian in 1995 at age 20

the reason people were having a go at him was because he was shying away from contests, not because of his football ability, and I think the people that had a go at him, and I was one of them, had every right. He was good today, but he still took his eye off the ball a couple of times. Once he starts hitting contests 100% all the time, he will be a good well-rounded player for us.

Spot on Deanox, but he needs to string a few together to cancel out the question marks that a pretty horrid first month placed upon him

He came off of his own volition, Jaded, coaching staff had nothing to do with it, put his hand up called for the trainer and then limped off - definitely injured, just hope its a low grade strain.

Well Petterd limped off so must be in doubt (though it may just have been tightness in hamstring, not a strain), Warnock will probably miss cause the dogs are small up front, with Pickett a chance to miss if Ricky comes up

Pretty certain he limped off with a hamstring strain??? Any news

He was v.good but he still drops his head in marking contests, which is an unconditional don't do...another thing to consider is that his dominance was when he was playing on Thomas and Surjan, both of whom were giving away plenty of height. A good sign, but one swallow does not a summer make.

Jaded your diatribes of players is very patriotic, but almost always misguided or inarticulate, saying Bell has higher possession average than Johncock is ridiculous - Johncock has played two games, one of which he was carried off on a stretcher, still his average is less than .5 lower than Belly's, thirdly, they are completley different players and finally Johncock is in a different class altogether, why the comparison!!! Pointless blabber!!! Bell was destroyed by Goddard earlier this year. Bell is an honest, improving player who will probably be remembered as a good player when his career is over, but really he is nothing to sing and dance about, DemonAndrew is kind of right but a bit harsh. Sylvia is ordinary at best at the moment, but injuries have crippled him severely, not anything near the player he was as a junior, just gotta hope he can get some continuity in his career.

It was an ordinary game...Crouch blanketed him well

Molan was a very, very unlucky footballer. Saw him play last week for Spotswood and he was amazing. Obviously its a massive class drop, but he has talent just never got to show it

joeboy did some shifty editing and added one in at the bottom

thats only 21 players joeboy

Well actually he has played like this incredibly often in his career, which makes it hard to cop the persistent derision he recieves in favour of unproven, anonymous, young buzz players.

The villain of the club, needed a post after such an excellent game

You are joking, Jaded, why you consistently sink your knees into Yze is beyond me, fair enough he is not playing well, but to emphasize him as a dropping candidate when there are the equally or more bad Ferg, PJ, Jamar, and Bate and then support CJ, who cant earn his own football at senior level and has never done anything is a disgrace. There is no way in Hades' hell that CJ shouldnt have been dropped, he was dreadful against St Kilda and barring five minutes against Hawthorn was anonymous in that game. Time I think you took a quality not quantity approach to posting and maybe do a Level 1 coaching accred, while your at it. I think weve all got the point about Yze.

Its a pretty reasonable selection, given the circumstances - CJ unfortunately has been invisible and needs more time to get his body strong enough to allow him to win his own football at senior level - We need talls to counter Mooney, Ablett, Hawkins and Ottens - so Ferguson Carroll, Holland and Wheatley are needed, you could argue we are still overmatched for defensive height and PJ comes in as Neitz replacement. Yze shouldnt have kamikazed himself after round one, where he was not in our worst 11 players, aside from the droped mark howler, and comes back into the side to provide some proven goalkicking power. IMHO Bate is lucky and Bizzell unlucky, but cause he didnt play any football last week, thats prob why he misses out. Its an ordinary team, but I can understand it...Newton is very raw and needs some more time...he will get his chance and Petterd and Buckley are pressuring Ward, Brown and Bate.

Actually we wouldnt have won tghe flag in 87 had we gone through - Flower, Wilson and one other would have missed through injury and Carlton thrashed Hawthorn in the GF

Nathan Jones - started OK, doing some nice things and then fading from view for a quarter or two before being a primary factor in the last quarter rally. He has a few rough edges, but has the requisite hardness and ball winning ability - 5.5 Matthew Bate - I mentioned last week that Bater plays a lot smaller than he is - and his perfomance yesterday refreshes that view. At this stage, he is not performing to AFL standard, too many times he refused to contest aerially and on a couple of occasions he fumbled, predicting body contact. He runs out on to the field as an AFL player and so he must cop the criticism that he recieves this week and adjust his approach to the game - he did a couple of exciting things and gets a lot of the ball, but there was a lot to suggest he is not ready yet - 3.5 Brad Miller - really responded well, leading up and providing an option in centre field but also taking the odd contested mark and showing hitherto unseen composure in front of goal. One of the bright sparks in a dreary day - 7 David Neitz - started well before injury ruined his day - 2 Daniel Ward - I like Wardy, but there is little doubt he hurts the team too much by burning the football too much and he was quieter than usual yesterday - 4 Travis Johnstone - completely subdued by Sewell, Johnno had a miserable afternoon and spent most of the day chasing, laid seven tackles which boosts what was an otherwise dismal afternoon - 2 Chris Johnson - CJ started OK getting a few kicks and distrtibuting the ball well, unfotunately so far this season he has shown a complete inability to win his own footy and have a physical impact on the contest. He has the skills but similar to Bate looks like a kid playing a man's game - 2.5 Brad Green - Greeny's copping a fair bit of flak, but he is certainly trying, putting his body in and being accountable for his man. His lack of leg speed is a concern in the midfield, he just doesnt seem to get the space required to have an offensive impact - 4.5 Daniel Bell - I thought Bell was very ordinary in round one, but played a great deal better yesterday. He showed a bit more poise and certainly a willingness to be a bit more creative, which you need from your small to medium defenders. Thought he coped quite well with Williams, when swung onto him, which was positive - 5.5 Brent Moloney - certainly tried to stamp his mark, but at times was overzealous to the team's detriment. Did some good things but had no real bearing on the contest - 4.5 James McDonald - another honest game from Junior punctuated with a terrific last quarter that got us fleetingly back in the contest. 30 touches is a good return but it wasn't, in truth, a damaging 30-touch game -7 Russell Robertson - played with his usual zest and tried to conjure opportunities for himself from left field, but found the task beyond him. Missed chances he would normally have slotted before injury took hold - 4.5 Nathan Brown - put simply he is the archetypal 'can get it, but cant kick it' player. One peace of play summed him up in the last when he won critical contest using courage and pace, fed to a team-mate, worked his arse off to get it back and then gave it straight to the opposition. He does a lot of good things, but they are undone by poor distribution technique - 5.5. Jared Rivers - had a good duel with Franklin who tried to run him and his suspect hammy around. Never looked like being a consummate Rivers game, but he was a solid contributor on a day when that puts you in or near the best - 5.5 Simon Godfrey - much to the chagrin, no doubt, of many, Godders earnt another by game by working hard, providing an option and finishing quite neatly as well. He is clearly a player that understands his limitations but is trying to improve - an attitute that hopefully spreads. Well done! - 6.5 Paul Wheatley - did one or two nice things but on the whole was very ordinary, bordering on anonymous. Carried a shoulder injury in the latter part of the game - 2 Cam Bruce - got a lot of the football and was one of the better players, but is wasteful and burns the football too much - 6.5 Jeff White - without being a bad player, he just didnt have the impact he should have had against the calibre of Campbell and Taylor - 4 Aaron Davey - just having no impact offensively at all. Chased and harrassed well, but more is expected, needed. Hobbling in the last quarter by lower leg pain - 3.5 Mark Jamar - an omission certainty were it not for a decent last quarter when he started to ruck well - two goals inflated his performance up forward, which was, in a word, abject. Has ability, but the sublety of an axe murderer - 3.5 Nathan Carroll - his opponent played well but Carroll was far better this week, doing some hard work and involving himself in some nice link play. Still prone to the odd calamitous mistake, though - 5 Matthew Whelan - played out of the square, he could neither contain Williams, nor provide his usual mop up and creativity. Seems out of form - 4

Bate is a peaheart, pure and simple - got the body, the athleticism and the kick, that will allow him to play at this level, but he will never amount to anything if he is this soft.

Jarman never came across and Wheatley played some ressies for Collingwood

Sinclair definitely did play reserves as a TAC top up player for us - played at the MCG - but was never a supp list player, which entrenched a player to a club for a season - ala Peverill Bruce etc. Other TAC cup top ups for us were Paul Chapman, Ryan O'Keefe, Mark Bolton and Jason Saddington, i'm sure there were others.

You make several valid points...unfortunately a horrendous display form Nicholson in the ruck a few years ago against the Dogs mean i am reluctant to go too low. Davey laid 5 tackles so he wasnt to bad - 1 in attacking sense but i raise because of his chasing. Im a bit rusty with the ratings, im back after a year out with an ACL so they will be improve as the year goes on.

Best: Moloney, Holland, McDonald, Neitz, Robertson, Ward Nathan Jones - started well and did some nice things, before being consumed in the horrors of the middle two stanzas - 4.5 Ben Holland - the medium of some unfair criticism after the game on this board, I thought Holland was very serviceable. Had a good duel with a very talented player in Koschitzke and tried very hard. Yes, he made some mistakes, but one of few who played to expectation - 6 Brock McLean - did some outstanding things and some uncharacteristically ordinary things before leaving the field with an injured ankle - 4 Matthew Bate - Hard to assess. Got a bit of the ball, presumably in the labyrinthine handball exhanges of the 2nd and 3rd quarters, because he really had no influence. Is a player who doesn't seem to bring his size to the contest, plays as if he is 180cm, not 190cm - 3.5 Brad Miller - Certainly tried hard, but he is - and there is no doubt about this - a limited footballer. St Kilda had a player in front of him for much of the day, meaning he often had to beat two opponents, when one quick close checking foe will usually stifle him. He doesn't deserve the fierce criticism he receives because he is a worker, but while is expected to be the team's fulcrum at CHf he is going to receive it - had no impact and made under 15s mistakes - 2.5 David Neitz - the captain, starved by his team-mates' thirst for indirect handball, was still an effective contributor with three goals...get to him quicker boys!!! - 5.5 Daniel Ward - the one player suited by the handball overuse was Wardy who did try to provide run and did try to use his legs to propel the ball forward. Unfortunately the hallmarks of his routine - the too high kick, the too long kick, the grubber kick and the wobbling kick - all made appearances and thus contrived to reduce what should have been a good game into a mediocre game - 5 Adem Yze - the guillotines are out on 'Ooze' but in reality he was far from our worst player. Yes, he argued too much with the umpire at one stage and may have cost a 50m penalty, and yes he dropped a mongrel kick inside 50, costing us a goal, and yes he overran the ball in the last quarter - a positive error in my opinion, because he was trying to the right thing - but on at least three or four occasions his skill level got the team out of trouble and he used the ball well overall. A mediocre game, but not anywhere near our worst player - 4 Travis Johnstone - Johnstone's game was the souffle that didn't rise on Friday, something about it was nice but really i'd rather it be returned to the kitchen, never to be seen again - 4 Chris Johnson - Of Johnson's first half, the less said the better - it was one of the most dire displays of football invisibility I have seen. He got nowhere near the football and looked very substandard. His second half was much better, he tried to run, create and, better, kick!!! Unfortunately, he was overzealous at times and made some bad mistakes. Has got obvious talent so more exposure at the highest level will help - 3.5 Brad Green - Greeny played a dull game, got a bit of the ball, but had little influence - spent some time in shutdown mode quite effectively, though - 4.5 Clint Bartram - thrown onto Milne after Whelan self-destructed and was run ragged by the Saints crumber. Bartram chased hard and Milne didn’t really hurt us, but Clint had no offensive impact whatsoever - 2.5 Daniel Bell - outclassed by Goddard early and then seemed to retreat into his shell and into pure defensive mode. Was OK in that capacity, but with Wheatley and Bizzell belting the door down for a spot in the side, he needs to do more. Some shambolic kicking also spewed from his instep - 3 Brent Moloney - started extraordinarily well but couldn’t sustain that level of play for long. Still, our best running player - make that, best player. Well-groomed, he sported an extremely efficient mullet - 6.5 James McDonald - prototypical McDonald scrapping, working, harrassing game. Cant fault his game, but you don't admire his play nearly as much when the glitz players don't turn up - 6 Russell Robertson - his mercurial goals kept us in the game and presumably gave his team-mates the hope needed to not completely capitulate. Annoying that he seems to grab a body part after each contest though, but he was one of our best - 5.5 Cameron Bruce - one of the worst games he's played in a long time and he was moronically used, spending vast periods inexplicably minding the anti-dangerous Blake at CHB. Needs to lift several cogs, if the team is to - 3.5 Jeff White - tried very hard and made a goal or two for the team with his endeavor alone, but was bested by his opponent - 5 Aaron Davey - chased hard but his class at ground level was absent and he had no impact offensively. On the back of poor preseason performances, won't be long before the knives our out if displays like this are consistently served up - 3 Mark Jamar - did nothing wrong, but had no influence on the contest - 3 Nathan Carroll - if you are going to present yourself at a game of football looking like that, then by golly you had better perform. Carroll was destroyed by Gehrig and is an embarrassment to the football club in his current disguise. That bouffant may help him at Revolver, a reported haunt, but he will disappear into the obscurity of a footballing joke if his play continues to be as bad as his hair - 2.5 Matthew Whelan - started well, but left the field after Ball headbutted his shoulder, a costly waste - 3

As useful as his performance today was, it must be noted that the standard of today's game was nowhere near VFL standard, let alone AFL, and as such it is going to be very hard for Sylvia to 'break through' this season. That said, he was good and if he can build base fitness in the next month or two, he should make a very positive contribution, leading into what will hopefully be a cracking 2008.

Left midway through the third - Sandy infront by 15 points Sylvia playerd the first half only - played inside forward fifty - kicked three goals, took a couple of nice marks and his set shot goalkicking was superb. He needed the run as his best touch deserted him when he dropped a couple of marks he normally would have taken and fumbled a couple of times at ground level but, overall, he played well and got stuck in when needed. Bartram played off half-back with spurts in the middle, probably had a dozen touches til midway through the third - his pace was a standout, broke away from traffic a couple of times very impressively, but against that he tried to do too much at times and got caught, kicking looks to have improved. A good but not great display. Warnock was steady in defence, covering his man well and taking a couple of nice pack marks, but wasnt in the play that much. Weetra didnt play. Collingwood's only listed player to play was Medhurst who did a couple of nice things but was, by and large, well held and would have been a disappointment for Pie fans.