Choko

I thought Petterd was terrific. But honestly, at the end of the day, taking away that he's 18, first game, etc... I didn't think he had more influence than the ones above him.

Great report and observations. I have noted it elsewhere, but there is no doubt that as you say, leadership was one of the biggest factors out there, and it was Bruce, McDonald and Trav that let us down in that regard. In fact, I saw minimal encouragement, very minimal self-management on the field, and no support for our backs. I think the other ting that has been terrible about our performances - and this has nothing to do with the men we have in or out of the side - is the absolute lack of pressure on the ball carrier through the middle. No chance for the backmen when the ball is coming in with quality because there's no pressure. The SCG is a small ground, so we have been and are going to come more unstuck at the G against a quick Port side. I also thought we were pumped tactically in the middle. Sydney had 2 men defensive side at most ball ups, and almost inevitably, the ball would get to them from White's tap. Basically, either Sydney would get a clean handball to them, and then players would break, or they would clutter it up and the ball would spill that way. Why we were blitzed tactically was that MFC was clearly trying to also push the ball forward, so both teams were trying to do the same thing, only Sydney was set up for it. Very disappointing given that we never reacted (coaching and on-field leadership) and that we have Paul Williams on our panel, which should have given us an advantage like Rock did for the Saints.

6. Davey 5. Rivers 4. Moloney 3. Godfrey 2. Petterd 1. White Unlucky Bruce.

100% agree with you that pace is an issue, and moreso pace of moving the ball off the half back line. That's why Wheels is such a bad loss, and an in form Bizzell would be a plus. But against Sydney, we were totally shown up in that area, and that's why we needed to have Flash behind the ball. It's why Ward and Brown have been getting games (even if not doing it well). We have too many similar backmen that don't give us drive. Still, that's a fact. Leadership exists within whatever facts are present.

Sydney and Adelaide also lack genuine pace in their midfields. I'm not talking about our other deficiencies, of which we have many. Specifically talking about leadership and the effect a lack of it has when we go a few goals down, when we get a few goals in front, etc... The other thing is, we have to be careful not to confuse leadership and talent. Whilst a bloke like Cam Bruce may be talented and also run hard, they are only subsets of leadership.

Fair enough. Would you drop Dog? If so, for whom?

Ins: Green, Neitz, Ward, Jones Outs: Garland, Bate, Brown, Jamar

I was at the game in Sydney, but my comments below are not linked only to that game, although I think it's a fair analogy for the way we perform, and the way we are seen, as a club. David Neitz was a reluctant captain way back when. Now he is a leader, and a very good to fantastic one at that. Brock seems to have leadership written all over him. Who else? Maybe Robbo. Scraping the barrel now. When we got the first 3 goals kicked on us on Saturday night, the most obvious thing I saw was 2 of our senior and most skilful players WALKING back to the centre, heads down. It was obvious we were shot. 5 minutes into the game, our so called leaders, if they are honest with themselves, gave up the thought of winning, or at least gave that appearance to the youngsters. When our captain plays, he's at full forward. Who leads in the middle? Who leads the backline? I'm not suggesting we need 18 leaders, but 2 would be good. Our coach, after 10 years, has not done enough to pick up or develop leaders, and I think shows a lack of thought leadership himself. We had no forward line against Sydney. Yet, we put Miller on Hall. Yes, he has done well in the past, but for goodness sakes, Millsy was just getting some confidence up forward. It was obvious coaching, poor coaching and predictable coaching. And what do you know? We could muster 1 goal for the first quarter, a lucky one at that. Part of leadership is setting an example. One of the misnomers about our plight this year is that we have been crippled by injuries. Now, I am the first to say injuries hurt us. But, the blokes that have come into the side are NOT youngsters who are not yet capable of competing. They are mainly the same old faces. Ward, Brown, Wheatley, Bizz, Holland, Fergs, Godders, Jamar, Johnson. Not to bash these blokes, but each has inherent flaws in their games, and which one has improved their flaws in the past few years? Leadership involves personal intraspection and honesty. Some of these blokes need to have a good hard look. Add to that the fact that Petterd was one of few willing to drop into the hole on the weekend, Pickett is too fat to contribute (5 possessions on the weekend is pathetic) and certain players consistently go missing when the heat is on. I am really disappointed with where we are at as a club. I hate being negative and rarely am, but seriously, I think we are back to 1997 again in some respects. Rant over.

I have to say, some people here really have to get their priorities straight. Bagging a guy like Bell, who is learning, growing and trying and was definitely not near our worst last night, get some perspective.

Not true. They are certainly not totally unrelated. Since the new centre circle rule took running leaping ruckmen out of the game, Jeff White has had reduced impact. The big winners are the bigger players. Also, the in the back rule helps the bigger ruckmen who can plant themselves in the goal square. The 2 best ruckmen in the league are probably the 2 from the west, both over 200cms. Players like Darcy, Goodes, only do limited ruckmen because height wins. That's how Peter Street sometimes gets a game. I think one of the reasons you can't name too many is because they take quite a few years to come on (look at Hamish McIntosh), and the new centre circle rule only came into play in the past 5 or so years. I agree, a better player over a taller player, but height is definitely related in this day and age.

I'll be there and I'm happy to vote if you like.

So the ski slopes of Canada far far away? Or Buller, just to hedge my bets? LOL I think we may well make a late run. And fall at the last hurdle, Carlton.

Yeh, agree. Headland is a moron. If he didn't want his daugter brought into it, he shouldn't have bashed Selwood. Then, he celebrates like they have just won the grand final and points at his tattoo. bringing more attention to it than ever. What a f*ckstick.

Agree. He is to brains what Brett Lovett is to pace. But he bleeds red and blue and is an eager learner and should be persevered with.

0 - 4. I thought before today that when we lost to the Shockers the season was over. But looking at the fact Essendon and Hawthorn are 3 -1, Freo is only 1 - 3 and we went with them for a while, I am now caught in 2 minds as to whether the season is officially over in terms of any possibility of finals. On the one hand, we would have to make history. On the other hand, there is a lot of upside, and it's a better time to slump than rounds 19 - 22. Anyone think we are still a chance, or is it a case of 2008?

Yeh, no doubt at all Bater would be playing at Sandy at the moment if we had a list. Icdeally you send him back for a couple of weeks to work on some areas - particularly hardness and decision making. But he is young and definitely doesn't lack endeavour, so I think people should give him a bit more of a fair go.

John Northey blind?

I think 90% of the skill erros came from 20% of the players - and they are the ones who would not be playing if we had a semi-full side. I didn't have a big problem with our style of play per se, and in fact had we kicked straight early or been a bit luckier in the 3rd, I thought we were in a reasonable position to give the win a shot. In terms of work ethic, I agree. We did not pressure their ball carriers nearly enough and they kept getting men free on the half back line. But it does hurt losing Trapper and Moloney before the game, having an underdone Dunn, Pickett and Sylvia, losing Bell for a fair whack of the game, and losing Wheels, Jones and others and having to have 3 talls on the ground. So in context, it's not so bad.

Miller played at CHF and played quite well in the prelim. Not sure what Danners has in mind for Sunday tho, as we are more undermanned this time. I would have thought we should do everything we can to keep our best possible forward line in place, including Miller, Green, Davey, Yze, with in and unders in the middle, including McD, Jones, Moloney (if he plays), Bruce, Godders. Maybe Bruce and Green rotating through the forward line. And the club has said from the very outset what is going on with Col - they don't expect him to be avbailable until round 6. Anything earlier is a bonus, but they have said it all along.

Still not the same thing, and not an appropriate analogy

The second you introduce a ridilulous fad like that, you say that some games are artificially more important - and where are you as a club when you lose a crunch game? As far as the original post, you will find that the difference between most work scenarios and the footy is that in the footy, 2 teams are trying to get it done, and are trying to achieve the total opposite of each other. So just to "get it done", whilst it would be nice, is simplistic.

Haha - I thought I was having a go at you! Hilarious. It's like my Brisbane supporter mate, who, when having an argument about the 2002 grand final against the Maggies, and the Coll supporters go "We was robbed! Rocca's was a goal", he just says "Yeh, straight through the middle!". That pretty much ends it there! But it doesn't get them the silverware!

Well I'll be there at the SCG with my bro, as I often am with interstate games. Very fired up.

Why don't you try supporting mate? Just 2 posts earlier you have had a go at Danners for not playing Petterd and you probably have said the same thing about Sylvia, then you say you reckon one of them will play. In tyhe Cam Bruce thread, you pick exactly that thread to point out that Cam isn't a champ in your eyes. Get a life and stop whinging.

Tremendous running ability and stamina, courageous and loves the club. Congrats Cam on your 150.