Choko

Or he is getting more support from a dominant ruckman, more and better midfielders rotating through. Which means he has more time, gets more shepherds, builds more confidence.... It's crap that Jones would have been told not to take on the man. The FD gives the opposite instruction.

I'm not so sure. This is hypothetical, but if CEO's and other admin officers were paid bonuses based on performance, then they might have obtained a financial advantage by deception. There might also be breaches of directors' duties, contract/statutory declarations, etc... Not that I think Aussie culture would lead to charged being pressed or litigation proceeding, but I think there is every chance corporate and personal crimes and civil wrongs have been committed.

I think you will find that if he remains injury-free in 2010 and the club wants him to stay, he will play one more year.

Exactly. Get your heads out people. If Brisbane wins, do you think they go to the rooms saying "Gee, that's a real shame, Melbourne had Watts, Wonna, Jurrah, Morton, etc... out. We didn't learn enough". No. You take your luck when it comes - hell knows we deserve some!

For crying out loud, the guy is 22 and for 2 - 3 years has been basically out best "extractor". He has been under a lot of pressure by virtue of the quality of our midfield. Put a guy like that in a good side, he would be a dead set gun. It's no coincidence that he is performing when those around him are performing better. Have we become so good or are people such keyboard heroes that we have nothing better to do than find fault in a 22 year old that has been holding our midfield together for 3 years and is performing terrifically at the moment?

And you know the coaching staff have been happy how?

Oh come on. Am I really missing something that Rivers doesn't get a game before Joel MacD? MacDonald played on Cloke, Burton. Which of those couldn't Rivers have played on, and done it better?

We have the bye this week.

Look. You will get nowhere here using facts. How dare you. Using people's online anonymous prejudices against them with facts is just below the belt. Pathetic mate!

Disagree. Because it was within 5m it was fair game. I thought it was sensational. Showed the ferocity of Mitchell and the sheer competitiveness that quite frankly pinched the hawks a flag they should never have won. Those bumps hurt, but they don't injure. What Guerra did injures. What Mitchell did was inspirational. I loved it.

You have to be very patient with ruckmen. Sandilands has been in the system for close to 10 years and is only in the past couple of years playing at his peak. He was a hack in the early days. Though I agree he wouldn't get a game based on his performance, it takes years for young ruckmen to come good, and there is no better way to speed up your development than playing senior footy. So in the absence of any viable alternative, I can understand why we are playing him. At least he isn't afraid of body contact.

Ins: Cheney, Martin, Maric, Out: Spencer, Bennell, Dunn Cheney to play on Didak, with Junior a back up if Cheney is being beaten badly. Joel MacD on Medhurst, and Grimes to run off Davis. We have the talls to go with Fraser, Cloke and Anthony, so that's fine. Bruce the job on Swan all day. Bruce to try to float forward and take Swan with him. If Swan doesn't go, Junior to pick up Swan in the Collingwood forward half. In the middle, NO MORE THAN ONE SLIGHT BODY IN THE CENTRE AT ANY ONE TIME. Collingwood is far too physical for us to play kids without protection. Last week, we played too many new players against men. MUST have Moloney, Jones, Bruce, Green if absolutely necessary, Sylvia, McDonald assisting Grimes, Scully, Trengove etc... Davey and Maric both forward. One of Miller and Bate deep at all times with Maric at feet. Maric told he will be judged on pressure and tackles. Petterd to present with Bate/Miller at half forward, with davey to maintain pressure round the forward 50m arc. Green to play forward, preferably by making Shaw accountable for him. McKenzie defensive midfield role. With mids in Moloney, Jones, Bruce, Jamar, Martin, Scully, Trengove, Sylvia, we can win enough ball if the forward structure holds and we can keep the ball in there.

It is a hell of an assertion to make that Bailey does not have the PASSION. It's one thing to criticise Bailey's demeanour, game plan, tactics, etc.... because any mug can do that from the sidelines. But to damn his passion is to claim a knowledge of his character. I would like to know how Grant Thomas knows Bailey's passion? Has he worked with him? Has he observed that Bailey doesn't have the same work ethic as other coaches? Have MFC players told him? Is it is just his "vibe" based on what Bailey projects? In all likelihood and knowing the tool Grant Thomas is, it's the latter. In which case, he can get stuffed.

Ha! Harsh! But if Newton plays, I'LL SPEW UP!

But we did play with more endeavour and we drew the second half, so doesn't that shoot down your argument? The other thing is, I actually think the media and some supporters have it wrong re saying we didn't demonstrate endeavour. We got 6 holding the balls and our tackling was good. To me that's the best sign of endeavour. I don't even think manning up was a massive issue (although granted we had a "zoning" rather than man-on-man game plan). We simply executed skills poorly, had a poor game plan, lost confidence and played a more seasoned, better drilled and hungry side.

Not true. We were slightly older (and even then, that's only because they were missing a lot of their older players and we have Green, Junior and Bruce) but they had more experience than us. We were playing 3 first gamers FFS.

Hawthorn forwards push up the ground too. I don't think that's the issue. I reckon the issue is that the players lack confidence to kick it to a contest, and with good reason. We have a terrible forward line, and worse still, cannot keep it in there if the forwards manage to bring the ball to ground. So instead, we try to break the lines by hand, but we do not have the skills. We would be far better kicking it to advantage of our forwards. If they are not good enough, well that's where we are at. But pick a side that will give us half a go when the ball goes to ground. Law of averages. 15 handballs on the backline, turnover. 50 inside 50s, more scores that 30 inside 50s.

Yes and no. Sometimes there is no-one to kick it to because instead of backing our forwards with a quick kick, we screw around for ages in the backline and Hawks get opportunity to get men back. By handballing over and over, law of averages is that you will turn it over. And instead of turning it over in the forwardline, it is on the half back line. I think Bailey failed to pick players or set up a structure that gave any confidence to the players that the ball may stay in the forward line if it spilled.

Agree entirely about Cheney for Bennell. I think Bennell has some glaring weaknesses he needs to work on. Dunn must be dropped for the game he had. Maric to take his place and be told that he will be judged on his forward pressure and not his goals. Sylvia to play if fit, for Strauss. I just don't think 3 2nd gamers against Coll is a good idea. But not so fussed if Strauss plays and Joel MacD dropped. Martin in for Spencer.

I really don't like responding to your crap, but honestly, if you're gonna come on here, show some f*cking respect man. McDonald is our captain, he tried hard all day and had a good game. You're real hard sitting behind the computer showing such disrespect to our captain. Soft.

Well I just wanted to say well done to Junior Mac, who I thought was superb today. His leadership was simply outstanding and he chased, tackled and harrassed all day and showed tremendous leadership in the face of adversity. Other than that, the youngsters got a game into them.

No Chance. Crap team with a crap coach. So many passengers and so one-paced.

I think most fair minded supporters would agree that it is almost impossible to say whether Dean Bailey is a good or bad coach yet. He cannot be blamed for poor execution, and in terms of list management, he has been fairly ruthless in pursuing our next premiership. On the other hand, at 12% winning record, we have definitely not shown the ability to beat sides that perhaps we could, and our improvement has been slow at best. I think the comment around patience is the best we can do. If Dean Bailey is a good coach, that will be obvious as he grows the list around him. If he is not, we will in my opinion have a list that someone else can work with towards a premiership.

Yeh, I agree. Outstanding initiative. I think this is a positive step in involving and communicating with supporters, and is very much linked to the "Brand" he discusses and in fact concedes needs to improve.

Took my little devil. Was very good. The players were all very accessible and admin were all there too. Jimmy was there playing with kids. I am not sure if the crowd would be considered a success or not, but there seemed to be a healthy crowd and it's always nice to see the next gen of kids. Seeing the players was like watching the walking wounded. Belly, Liam J (who was excellent with the kids) etc...