Dappa Dan

HA! I just posted that last one, went down to get a coffee, and got the paper.... felt a bit sheepish... We're having a brekkie/lunch here with the local dees fans, Jackattack and a few others... celebrating the big day with drinks. This is the closest thing we'll get to a celebration over the next couple of years, so LAP IT UP!!!

Yep. Read it. Still didn't see anything definitive. They said Melbourne had turned up to their house. There wasn't an interview, a press conference, no-one from MFC was quoted definitively... Seemed like a [censored] fluff piece to me. With little readership other than MFC supporters who'd be online at 1:30am. But who cares, Jack was coming to the club a LONG time ago, as you rightly suggested.

I don't really see how it makes it certain... seems like even more he said, she said stuff. But I hope it's true. For a guy who wants Naita, you seem very excited Freak...

Though actually winning it will make him the media darling, and put him in contention. Mostly because of our lack of leaders. Not holding my breath though... let's just get more than half a season out of him first.

68 kgs at age 20... that's a real worry. Unless you play like Davey.

Yup. And as I said this is really the only major concern with him I reckon... when it comes to match-ups. I don't like the idea of him leading against Fev out of the square, or wresting Brown in it. In the past when he's marking them he pushes them wide, takes them up the ground, plays smart. People talk a lot about the death of the power forward these days. I think the stories are exaggerrated, but I think there's some truth to it. There's only a few big guys I really fear, and it's not like there's one in every team. Many of them have resting ruckmen, or Brett Burton types, which Jared could outbody. In any case, the point is moot unless he A) gets on the park, or B) plays one of the roles we talk about here.

Get in for her 1st membership!

:D I could add to the list, but there'd be 26 names... 25 players and a coach. And even then I think we still haven't even got the list that will get us there... even playing at its best. I reckon what would be more pertinent would be a list of players who have not done enough to warrant their paychecks, reputations, drafting positions relative to their draft years, trade price, or the faith shown in them with no return as yet. The list would be the same except I reckon Bate has shown plenty, Sylvia and Moloney have had injuries, and Jones has done enough for us not to be on his back. Also add Jamar, who still frustrates the bejeezus out of me, and PJ who had a really good year this year, but if he falls in a heap, it'll all be for nothing. The reason I suggest this is that in my mind the plan, since Neale was dumped, has always been to recruit as many young players as possible over the space of three drafts. '07, '08 and '09. That's six a year from the draft itself. In '07 and '08 there were enough retirements, obvious delistings and dead wood that it was easy to see who had to make way for the 6 draftees, and whoever we took in the PSD and rookie draft. But '09 will present a far more different equation than the past two years. We will only have JMac likely to hang them up, and maybe Robbo/Whelan... who both would be entitled to keep going if they play ok. Past that you would hope we'd make way with another 3-5 spots depending on trades etc etc... So those names we talk about... the Bells, Bartrams, Jamars, Newtons... They suddenly have to be in the gun. In other words the young players who don't come on the way we hope, most likely the later draft picks, will have to be let go... Which will be tough to stomach I'd imagine. Certainly it'd be tougher to see, say, a Cheney or McNamara go than a retiring Adem Yze.

Summed him up in a sentence there. Riewoldt's engine and his hands are what set him apart. If he could kick straight he would be feared like Pav and Brown... but alas. This is, I reckon, the reason we see the Nicnat/Watts debate rear its head so late in the piece. We've had a number of players recruited for their flexibility, and in the long run not having a home only has detrimental effects on their confidence. Perhaps there's concern that Watts will do everything BUT be a KP player or ruckman. Our need to recruit a spine and good big man in the ruck may have them thinking that the team's growth will be stunted as we are chock full of good tall wingmen... I reckon as good as it is to have a big name in the square, I think it's more important to have a contest caused, like Neita did for the latter 5 or so years of his career. Watts is the kind of player, looking at the tapes, who will use all but his size to impose himself on games. We will need him to finish, and to create... we have a few guys now who can take out a big defender or two, and if we need to recruit another there's always going to be a lot of Brad Millers around. For the record I reckon one of the big drawbacks with NicNat was that he's a one position player. And now it seems that's considered a pro instead of a con. Less than 24 hours to go now before we find out if H will still be with us in the coming years.

Not really aimed at you... I like to give RR soft but significant jabs in the ribs, just to keep him honest, and to try to lighten the poor bloke up... That said, my original post was a passing comment on how I believe "third tall" doesn't begin to describe the role he plays. I've seen him repeatedly stand toe to toe with some terrifying opponents... in games where I gave him no chance, yet again and again he proves his worth by either beating his opponent or taking them out of the game. And all this when not playing as third tall... I get frustrated when I hear people say he's limited to this role, as if it's the only job he'll ever do at MFC. My point about the pedantics was that certain posters see someone get excited about a player, and feel the need to disagree with EVERYTHING they see, even when it contradicts other disagreements they've made in other threads. So back on his strengths and weaknesses. What strengths does a KP defender need that Rivers doesn't have? He has strength, he marks an opponent beautifully, corralls them, takes them up the ground or deep if that's what his coach wants... At the end of the day Rogue, there are plenty of his strengths that are good for BOTH jobs. My comment is a response to the fact that he has played on KP forwards and beaten them.. more often than not. That's probably the biggest reason 'd be confident if he took a dangerous forward... or a forward who'd been dominant to half-time. He's done it superbly in the past.

Hmm. I seem to have mentioned goalkickers there... and that's to be expected... but midfielders strike fear. Especially the ones that stream forward damagingly... a la Goodes, Judd, Bateman etc etc... Brock may not have searing pace... and I must admit I'm always stunned at 1/4 or 1/2 time when I look up at the scoreboard and see Brock is 5 possessions clear of the next highest possession getter. But yes... he's never been a guy that makes the opposition cheer squad go quiet... which is what we all like to see. Davey, I'm not sure people are really that terrified of him TBH. The last time I saw him contribute to the destruction of a team was that amazing second half comeback at the G a few years ago... and on that day Neitz kicked 8 anyway... To give you some idea, Milne has done more to be considered dangerous than Aaron, and that's saying something... Interesting stuff though.

I think it comes down to how great you believe the change is in the last 2 years vs Rivers' judgement... I try to look at the glass half full, and as I said before, I think a brain like his is like gold dust in the AFL... moreso than athleticism, mobility etc etc. Riewoldt is one of the most athletic KP players EVER and Rivers had what it took to go with him, even though he was fresh out of his teens and giving away height, weight, experience. I don't think of Harley as particularly quick either, and he has a place in a premiership side. A pretty important one too... Actually the more I think of Harley, the more I think they're very similar in many respects. Oh and consider that it's not like we're swimming in third talls at the moment. It;s not like Rivers will have to fight his way into the line-up. I think the support he has in defence, and for that matter the pressure brought to bear on him by an underperforming midfield will actually have a greater say on his form, should he return, than anything. When he was playing well a few years ago we had an effective midfield, one of the best forward lines in the comp, a top-3 ruckman, and experienced if flawed rebounding defenders that could alleviate the pressure if needed. That's all gone now, and with Carroll and Holland out of the picture too, Rivers is now the old man of the defence. RR, I'm going to bookmark this debate for later in the year... Or next year... or whenever Jared feels like pulling on a gurnsey again. I feel this might be an interesting side note this year, and God knows, we're going to need some...

That's the thing about Col isn't it... We've all gotten so used to just waiting, it's as if we're just resigned to the fact he'll continue in much the same will-he-won't-he fashion for the rest of his career... But if he WERE to actually play a season unhindered by major setbacks, or form curtailing pain... he would actually be the kind of player sponsors, members and potential barrackers could really be excited about. People ca it X-factor... but more specifically, I would say I am most excited by the fact that Colin is a player that could potentially make opposition fans and coaches take a moments' pause. Sort of more a fear factor than an X factor... Think Andrew Symonds in the AUstralian side. He gets a game because opposition players must tremble juuust a little when they know he's coming.. not necessarily because he's definitely going to dominate, but because if he DOES switch it on, there'll be hell to pay. With that in mind... how many guys on MFC's current list make opposition supporters and coaches worry? I'd say probably zero. Maybe Brock, but even his influence can be curtailed in the current list as his exploits against taggers have shown. So out of the other 32, how many could POTENTIALLY be considered dangerous players? Col's one of only a few. - Maybe Morton one day... certainly a long way from it yet. - Davey is too hot and cold, and is only really scary when he has support and is playing close to goals, where his inventiveness pays big dividends. - Robbo in his day did, but probably won't anymore. - Wonna is a long way from striking fear into anyones heart, but he's off to a good start. Depressing when you look at it like this. Which puts Col's skillset into perspective. If he can really muscle into a game and apply a physical presence along with his pace and marking ability which are both considerable... and then you add a 60 metre kick... I know if there was a FIT player like that in an opposition team I'd be concerned come match day.

I knew this would happen. I could even narrow down the names of the pedantics that would come out to pick fault, like it needed to be done... ooooook. Rivers is a KP defender. In my opinion. He contests one-on-one superbly when it's his turn, causes contests with guys way bigger, faster and more athletic than he is (eg. Riewoldt) His footy brain, as alluded to, gets him in the right place at the right time just about every time. His shortcomings in terms of class, things like lack of kicking penetration and accuracy, lack of rebounding pace, size, height... in years gone by these weaknesses have never hamstrung his effectiveness... and I see no reason to think the game has changed so much in his absence that they would start limiting him now. I respect what you say RR, but I disagree wholeheartedly. If we were talking about a new recruit then I would apply that logic, but Rivers has a lot of runs on my board, and has earnt my full confidence on all but the biggest and scariest gorilla KP forwards... such as Hall and Brown. And as for the 2 years out/3 years out... I would suggest that would be true for a midfielder/small player, but for a KP player who is yet to reach his peak years, Rivers still has time... Only my opinion though, for whatever it's worth.

Can I just say, in a Spike Milligan octave... *clears throat* Whooooo Caaaaares!!!!

The guys a KP player, no matter what people say about him being a third tall... His pace has never been a hallmark. It's his incredibly astute footy brain that does the work, that and a spoonfull (or bucketfull) of courage. With that in mind, it's post 25 that his injuries will hurt MFC. If he can get on the park for the majority of his late twenties and early 30s, then we will have gotten our money's worth.

I've got this image of H sitting in the corner of a padded cell, sitting on the floor, arms wrapped around his legs which are up against his chest.... HUGE bags under his eyes, messy unkempt hair, rocking back and forth muttering "Watts number 4, Watts number 4, Watts number 4, Watts number 4" Over and over again... If we take Niknat, we can probably get used to this image for a good year or so...

Time. Prismall is closer to his peak time as a footballer. Also Selwood was a bargain for the cats because of perceived injuries. Everyone wants the speculative pick that works out a treat... When a player is recruited they're not expected to dominate in their first few years, so you allow time to pass for the injury to completely clear up, and for whatever rehab to happen. Also... watch how he moves post injury. The guy is a ball magnet, on top of being able to move as well as just about anyone through the packs... Oh. And I think perhaps there's a little bit of that thing in our minds where we bounced back from injury quickly as kids. Perhaps that plays a part... Oh the carelessness of youth.

13? Lynch = the Frawley of the 2008 bunch...

Yeah, look... I'm not saying he'll be Hird's equal. Even if he was there's no telling if a Hird-type player will find a home in modern day footy as it seems to change every year... The best we can do, especially as fans, is take what we know (Hird = pretty bloody good player) and if we see a player emulate him, identify the parallel. The amount of times players get compared to established stars, and then turn out completely different.... it's a wonder anyone does it at all. I've heard Bizzell - Ablett, Dunn - Schwartz, S. Buckley - Judd... I rate Matty... but am conscious of the fact we don't need two of him. The second one would be redundant, unless due to his average kick he goes into defence. I reckon Lynch at best will be known as a fiercely competitive 1-on-1 defender one day. Bears all the hallmarks, including the overblown arrogance of a Scarlett/Fletcher/Michael/Martyn/Leppitsch... But for me it's just not enough for a top twenty pick in a draft like this. It's like the Alwyn/Aaron debate. You have one, and with a clone, you don' really buy any variety... And you become conscious that opposition coaches might consider you predictable. - McKernan would be ok. But I'd prefer Shoenmakers... has class written all over him. - I've put a lot of thought into the Hughes thing. If he;s dropped after another injury then yes, I'd be [censored]. But he had talent... was just SO skinny. If you KNOW he can play, and you get 100 games out of him, then that's a win for your average rookie. Worked for Robbo didn't it? And hey, it could be worse. We could rookie Weetra. Wouldn't that set about 10 cats among a pigeon... - I've cooled on Hislop... just my 5 cents. On the Weetra thing... we delisted him at the end of this season. I can see us putting him in a rookie spot. That's he kind of thing MFC would do.

That's actually disturbingly true. If they pass up on Watts at 1 because of the predicted order of 17 + 19, then that would be a stuff-up equal to a Milne snap over the head in the goal square that goes out of bounds on the full... Overcomplicating an issue that should be straighforward. Seriously? I reckon this might be one of the first things you've posted I can't respect. This really would be the kicker for a recruiting department. How good can a great ruckman really be? Even if he's the next Cox, what does that give us? First use and an extra midfielder? No. What we want is the next Hird, not the next Fraser... I can't believe no-one's made the observation that Watts bears a striking resemblance on the field to James... Or am I the only one who thinks this? Oooook. So which is it? You'll still be a member, and you won't jump ship to another club... but you'll stop offering support?

Swift, all the way. Pick 19 could be any one of a number of KP players. Nothing, if we get him. I hope we don't. Shoenmakers would be way better. Even McKernan. Sound logic, and I hope you're right. When I saw his name in some mock drafts, I got a bit worried... but I have been having a look at him recently, and I'd be happy with him at 19 now... especially over Lynch and Roughead who will be fairly uninspired choices. Lynch could be a Justin Leppitsch type, simply because he has the work ethic. Roughead sounds like an average version of his brother... who without Franklin wouldn't be nearly as highly rated. Draft for needs with picks 35 and beyond... Please.

Hmmm. Fair enough. There's no reason to condemn him... But I guess this is just a footy forum. Ben has left himself open to some criticism... It's not like people are telling him to rot in hell, go away and die... Like I said, as long as he takes his attitude towards drugs, (which isn't quite reformed, IMO) away from the game and back into seedy nightclubs, I'm happy. There's a place for self-destruction... the AFL isn't it. I think SEN has fed the debate in the sense that, as with ALL footy issues, fans hate it when people sit on the fence. EVERYONE has to have an opinion, and unfortunately that opinion seems to have to be all the way to one extreme or another. An it's up on their soap-boxes that the air gets a bit thin an they start thinking a bit closed-mindedly. When they come on and claim that Ben is being given a raw deal, and that there are other players on two strikes who don't have any restrictions... what kind of crap is that? Perhaps those guys should be punished... yes... but just because they're NOT, doesn't mean Ben shouldn't be either.

Sheltered? Maybe... Uneducated? Quite possibly.... Wrong? Absolutely not. The guy took drugs, kept taking drugs, and while you can feel for him and wish him the best all you like, there still shouldn't be a place for men of his moral character in footy. Talk about sheltered and uneducated? There is a LOT to be said about reintroducing him to a league where he's going to be hero-worshipped by kids. If he plays again, he'll likely play pretty well, simply because he's a quality footballer (though not for ALL that much longer), so kids will get behind him... and I tell you what, if you don't think that'll make drugs seem like less of an evil to impressionable minds, then you have some thinking to do. The caveat here is that if he returns, and remains clean, renounces his past alignments with criminal elements, and IMMEDIATELY and permanently jumps on the anti-drug bandwagon, then he could resume his place as a role-model to kids. In fact it's conceivable that he could be an even more powerful anti-drug message if that were the case, but I don't see him doing any of that. If anything, he smugly smiles and nods and avoids the attention. And how much more impact can he have in the media with only a couple of good years left in him anyway? None of this is intended to assassinate his character... I DO hope the guy can find some peace, and recover fully. But unless there's a dramatic shift in his public persona, there shouldn't be a place for Ben in the public eye.

I started the Tom Hislop news on here (only cos I was posting and listening to the SEN report as it came on air), despite the thread originator being WC... At the time, and for a good week after I was probably more vocal on here than anyone on recruiting the kid. I thought perhaps a smack in the jaw with the reality stick might do him good, and he might grow up and realise he should be down on his knees thanking the maker that he got to play AFL at all, instead of behaving in such a way that his career might be under threat, for no other reason than (one of) arrogance, disrespect for authority, unpreparedness, bad attitude. Surely if it gets to this point the kid would take note and straighten up? Other factors included the fact we'd be taking him from the Scum for nothing... (offsetting the CJ debacle) AND the fact that the PSD was bereft of talent at that time, making our first pick look pretty darn useless... Something that made me very, very grumpy. After going through the draft prospects in detail, and perusing our currently listed 33 players, I'm of the opinion our list will be complete as of the end of next seasons draft, perhaps even very close to being complete at the end of THIS draft. ALl that will remain, recruitment-wise, after 2009 would be the usual 3-5 players being culled (or retiring) and we'd have the team we'd be following for the next ten years... more or less. With that in mind, there's no room for the Hislops of this world. Angwin was a highly rated player who was let go, and it's been revealed as a good decision, as he was a first-class peanut all along. Hislop could be revealed to be similar. The only way I'd look at him is if we had no-one better to look at in the rookie draft, and we offer him terms... no negotiation. He puts up, shuts up or he's turfed for good. The reason? EVEN IF the guy gets recruited again, and proves he can play with a good season over his two years, you know for sure the arrogance will return and he'll probably end up holding whatever club he goes to to ransom. Say no to TH... It's that simple.