Viney12

Railroaded ? maybe nudged to step up to the plate and man up to his stuff up...possibly. But you stuff up..you wear it !! surely

What stuff up? Getting on the [censored]?

If some moron hadn't have rung Eddie on MMM and made up some BS that Beamer had [censored] on the bar, this would've been a non issue

The fact he lost the VC for this was a disgrace and to me it seemed as though to justify losing the VC, the club made him get up and repent his 'sins'

Now you're cookin' V12 ... work-shopping some solutions finally!

But you can't say 'fact is' Dangerfield aint coming. Until ink hits contract at Adelaide, anything is possible.

Mitch Clark signing with us was gold in more ways than one.

Difference, everyone knew Mitch was leaving. He'd tried to leave earlier as well, but no trade could get done

Dangerfield hasn't made any noise about leaving and IMO seems pretty happy with the freedom the new coach has allowed him

I'll change from 'fact is'.....but mate if we landed Dangerfield this off season, I'd be very, very surprised (I don't think he'll leave Adelaide....if he does, I don't think he'll end up at the Dees)

Sorry if you think that's pessimistic, I think it's just being realistic

By the way, I had a feeling of confidence re landing Mitch when we threw out hat into the ring, quiet confidence, but confidence none the less

V12...Far more trading will happen with FA

The Players voted for this...We do not know who is doing what until the player managers start spruiking

The old rules have been superceeded V12.

No doubt....but I don't think it's going to have a major impact in the short term

Once it's been in place for a decade, once moves have been made, once it's more accepted as part of the norm, we'll see far more moves IMO (and wouldn't be surprised to see mid season moves coming in)

No one in this thread, but back when it happened people did.

But you said "people are still whinging" re the Brock trade

No one is still whinging, very few whinged at the time (other than people being [censored] at Brock for wanting out)

Again Moloney can go, but if its free agency we get nothing in return??? And keep Jamar at all costs, our ruck stocks would be terribly exposed!

AFL grants compensation

This is exactly why the MFC should be very busy this year, off field.

We can make FA good for us if we are proactive. Otherwise the same system will rip us apart.

And I'm sure Neeld / Craig / Viney and co. will be exploring as many beneficial options for us as they possibly can

However, being proactive and wanting something doesn't automatically make it happen

Just look at the Mitch Clark issue. We went after him because he'd said he was leaving. That was a given. The club saw an opportunity and threw their hat into the ring.

However some of these other guys haven't signalled any intention of leaving

I'm sure that the club has made / will make enquiries about all suitable trade / free agent targets, that's their job, that's their responsibility

Problem is a.) not all of the wish list will move b.) some of the wish list may have more attractive suitors we have to contend with

Every year virtually every football fan bemoans how uneventful trade period is. A huge number of mooted trades never eventuate, and they were probably never going to. It's all rumour to create interest.

Very few big targets get traded at trade time

In it's infancy, I see the same thing happening with FA

Could someone please show me where it's been confirmed Jamar's talks are on hold?

V12, lets do the Footy Maths,

How many years do you reckon Melbourne would offer Jamar, who is 29 this year?

Two years?

How many years do you reckon GWS would offer Jamar?

Two years + a tempter year to lure Jamar to Sydney = 3 years, at least.

How much money do you thing Melbourne would offer Jamar?

x

How much money do you think GWS would offer Jamar?

x + more.

= Jamar leaving.

You may well be right, you may not

However, I think we're in a position to offer Jamar 3 and reasonable money

Jamar is a leader of the club, he's stated he loves the club, he rejected a big offer from Port to return back home

But after the Scummy debacle, who bloody knows

No.

Baseless internet rumour with no verification holds as much water as "I want to be a 1 club player"

"If a contract were in front of him he'd sign" is the latest version of "I want to be a one club player" and both hold about as much water as "We back the coach 100%."

You can only believe Jamar will stay when you know his signature is on a Melbourne contract.

Well as you seem so certain, verify your source

You read it here first. Or, at least you did, until Demonland deleted it on May 3.

So Jamar's said about a week ago that if a contract were in front of him he'd sign, now he's heading West, when Freo and WC have very strong ruck divisions?

Tad confused

Media rubbish surely re Jamar

There's been no word of Jamar putting talks on hold at all and recently said if there was a contract in front of him he'd sign

Re Moloney, disappointing news

I'm actually quite torn as to whether ir reflects badly on Moloney, or the club

If a life long Melbourne supporter, gets his wish to play for the club he bleeds for, and is disillusioned and wants out then is he being a prima donna or are there greater issues at the club

Dangerfield is set for superstardom. 4 AA jumpers minimum. Mark it down.

But you go on championing the same old-same old. See where it gets you.

What's that saying about the definition of insanity?

No I advocate getting Dangerfield, absolutely 100%

But fact is he ain't coming

Offering up solutions that are unlikely may make you feel better, but sooner or later reality sets in

Every single year there's thread after thread after thread on all supporter sites about "Lets get 'player x'"

And 99% it's pipe dreams

Ok, so you want me to offer up suggestions

Let's get Brendan Goddard. Unrestricted Free agent, throw a bag at him, make some ancilliary trades for Moloney / Sylvia if the price is right, delist Green. Keep Davey, but exclusively as a crumbing forward (but sound out the market and see if there is interest). Recruit gun mids in the apparent super draft (along with Viney all depending on how that plays out)

with the later picks we receive for Moloney / Sylvia, get some top line VFL players to inject some mature bodies, and recruit players who can and will play to Neelds Gameplan

If trades for good mature mids can be made for Moloney / Sylvia then explore that option as well.

Sound them out to clubs with deep midfields who may have a Josh Kennedy langushing in the 2s

Other alternative, throw everything + the kitchen sink to get Sam Mitchell, and offer him an ongoing off field role (midfield coach) after his contract is up. Get him to show the likes of Viney, Gysberts etc how to go about it

Have a look at your signature RR.

Dangerfield fits is the type of player that recruiters love - pace, nice kick etc etc, but hasnt been consistant over his career to date. Untill he completes this season consistantly and then has another season of the same ilk i'd put him in the sylvia bracket.

Kicks 3-4 and gets 30 touches every now and then and then has a few games where he does nothing

In fact last year he seemed to beat up on weaker teams, and play poorly against stronger teams

Sylvia v Dangerfield

or Jack was targeting Wojo..?

Didn't see the game, so no idea

All I've seen is wojo's crude tackle, holding Viney down, punching him in the face when Viney pushed him off and then cleaning him up resulting in a broken jaw

You keep ignoring the top 10 draft picks we have this year. Why?

Your attitude is defeatist V12.

When Neeld and Co sniffed a chance with Clark they got on the first plane they could and had a massive crack at him.

That's the attitude we need and thankfully Neeld appears to be the type of person who has it.

Ignoring them?

Suggest you read my post again "....and an unknown quanity in a draft pick"

A draft pick in ANY draft is an unknown

And yes, they had a sniff because Clark had announced his intentions of leaving

Has Dangerfield? Seem pretty happy to me

Big stain on Wojcinski's career for mine. Real 'hero stuff' to get stuck into an 18yo first gamer the way he did.

A one-off reflexive incident is one thing, but he clearly targeted Jack V. for attention. Weak as pizz.

Agreed, if you look at the tackle he laid on Viney before the jab, that in itself was crude in nature

So a crude tackle, he then held him down, when Viney pushed him off he punches him in the face, then later cleans him up when he clearly could've gone for the tackle

I have no doubt he was targetting him

Same amount of time?

They will be given more time than a Watts or a Bennell to 'get' it, and they should 'get it' quicker than their inexperienced counterparts.

Your senior players dictate your fortunes and if we want to win some games this season - those two will have to lift.

So Sylvia has to "lift" after 1 and a quarter games after coming back from a spinal fracture?

Yes I know he's been frustrating to watch over the journey, but as I said earlier, we're not trading midseason, so lets see what these guys have to offer for the rest of the year

It depends what Sylvia produces this season but I still feel he offers something attractive to a challenging side like Adelaide, Freo or Sydney.

Moloney's best hope would be a 3-year deal at the Suns or GWS ... but at this stage of his career you never know, that may appeal to him.

So Adelaide will happily replace up and coming gun they've put 4 years into for an inconsistent 27 year old with numerous off field indiscretions and an unknown quanity in a draft pick

As I've said elsewhere ... put $3.5m - 4m over 5 years in front of someone and funny things can happen.

And you don't think he'd be offered that at Adelaide?

History is on player loyalty

Plenty of big offers have been knocked back, moreso than big offers have been accepted

What I'm saying is you're not offering up a whole lot in terms of ideas about how this club is going to get up off the deck.

And 'experience'? Pffft. Overrated term. I'll take a 20yo who plays like Prestia over players who pick and choose when to show up (Sylvia and Moloney) every day of the week.

I would love to get a player like Dangerfield, but it's fanciful

I would love to get a player like Prestia, but it's fanciful

wishful thinking, and hoping to trade in A graders doesn't mean squat, i'm sorry because the reality is it ain't going to happen

What we need to do, in my opinion, is actually develop some of the existing list into A graders

Have enough depth so these guys are consistently pushing themselves

Phase out these guys gradually as the younger guys get more games under their belt

Bear in mind that Green is done, and probably wont be on the list next year, and who knows if Davey will be

They're our leading game players with 243 and 155 respectively

If they're gone, as well as Sylvia and Moloney, we're then losing about 600 games of experience

We've seen what happened after we delisted all of our experience a few years ago

I don't know if they'd go for it but you've got to have a crack don't you?

Maybe they come back and say "okay we'll trade Dangerfield but we want your picks 5 AND 6 plus Sylvia".

I'd seriously look at that.

Prestia is everything you want in a modern midfielder at the age. Quick, hard, skilled and relentless. Forget his age, he's a man already.

But it comes back to what I said before

Let's look at realistic targets

It's good and well to have a wish list, and I think there's 17 other teams in the comp that wish they could have Dangerfield

So if he were to leave, why would he choose us?

He's playing for a team that's risen substantially in terms of output since last year, they're a finals chance, they're a team that's never down the bottom of the ladder long, he'll play plenty of finals with Adelaide

Or he could come to what appears to be a basket case going no where real fast

What we need to find, and really one of the only realistic chances of trades, is finding a Josh Kennedy (Sydney) type

Playing for a very good team with midfield depth and not getting a chance

The only thing we can offer a trade in, is gametime

If they're getting game time at their existing club, and their existing club is doing well, why would they leave to come to us?

Don't use the last few years as a bench mark V12. The waters have changed.

18 teams, free Agency & a non weighted draft change the trade parimeters considerably.

There will be a few huge suprises during trade week, that is my bet.

I disagree

I don't think free agency will have the impact others do, not initally anyway

See my post to Bossdog above.

How about coming up with a solution V12 instead of sitting from the sidelines taking potshots?

Potshots? who the hell have I taken a potshot at?

Whilst Dangerfield and Prestia would be nice gets, it ain't going to happen for 1

But it still leaves us with a massive black hole of EXPERIENCED players

That is what we need, experienced players

Prestia's played about 23 games and would be adding just another 19 year old inexperienced player

Where we have failed so badly is with experienced players 26 - 30

It's too late for all that love BJ. Beamer is a great bloke i do not doubt it, but our midfield is 18th in the comp & he has had more than enough time to prove his worth.

Beamer beats up lesser opposition on the MCG.

Nothing more for 7 years.

We must demand more.

Let's look at Beamers history since being traded to us

In '05 he played 21 games - and the buzz around at the time was the Cats had made a massive blue in letting him go

in '06 he played 7 games due to injury

in '07 he played 10 games due to injury

in '08 he played 8 games due to injury

in '09 he played 21 games when we absolutely sucked and week in week out amongst all of those losses, he was consistently one of our best

In '10 he played 18 games and win, lose or draw, he was consistently our best (capped of by 38 touches against eventual premiers Collingwood in a draw at the G)

In' 11 he played like a yoyo, like the entire team FFS, belting a team by 90 points one week, losing by 90 the following

I recall that during Jack Watts' 8 game purple patch many a poster saying that Watts was the only one standing up

So it doesn't sound like Beamer was on his own with up and down form

Not to mention the fact that clearly last year Moloney's success relied upon his and Jamar's relationship. And when Jamar went down, his dominance was quelled

I think to say that for 7 years Moloney has been beating up on weak teams is a stretch

I can cop people saying in 2011 Moloney beat up on weak teams

Yes, let's have a look at reality for a moment V12 (and Bossdog) because it seems like you two fellas are having a problem with it.

Fact is ... we are sitting 0-6, an abysmal 17th on the ladder and on average shy of 100+ possessions on our opponent each week.

Fact is ... we have the worst midfield in the competition bar none.

But the good news is - and you both keep conveniently ignoring it in your posts - is that we will likely go into this year's draft with a booty of prized draft picks. That puts us in a solid position to trade for one, possibly two guns that can, along with Jack Viney, slot straight into our midfield.

Sylvia and Moloney can serve two purposes here. 1) As trade make weights (do you understand that term?) to get any deal over the line and 2) Moving them on greatly helps free up the necessary cash to bring in the quality we need.

There's no way we draft a fresh batch of 18 yo's in October. As a club we simply don't have that luxury anymore.

Neeld needs some genuine class in the engine room or he may as well give up now.

You watch. It's a no-brainer for mine. One or both of Sylvia and Moloney won't be wearing red and blue in '013.

No I get all that

My point is WHO ARE WE GOING TO TRADE IN

If there was a viable experienced midfielder we could trade in, I'm all ears

But look at trading in the last few years

Name 1 midfield gun being traded that we had a chance of getting in the last 5 years

I know where we are at as a club

I know where our midfield is at

I'm not saying we don't try and trade for some quality experienced players, I just don't know which quality experienced mids we can entice over

I personally didn't like the way the matter was publicly handled, but Moloney himself stared into TV cameras and confessed a binge drinking problem.

Hardly 'horsepoop'.

It felt like he was railroaded into it for mine

I told you above i do not have all the contract details in front of me, and as i am at work do not have time to search.

That is Todd Viney's new job. He is a much better judge of a hard nosed midfielder than i.

Sorry but i have had enough of Beamers ill directed 50 metre bombs that are so often turned over when a player like Matty Bate is well positioned to recieve as an example.

Fair enough, but the fact you have no one specific in mind, it just makes me think trade for trades sake

The history of trading needs to be looked at, very rarely are experienced gun midfielders traded

And if they are, I can't seeing a lowly Melbourne being a preferred option

As this is hyperthetical. Jack Darling IS what we have wanted Sylvia to be. So we have blown that chance haven't we.

Moloney would love to play like Cameron Ling when he can be bothered, but he is not that good at it.

But you rate them a lot higher than me.

After last years 186 Moloney should have been read the absolute riot act. Maybe he was, and is still sulking.

I'm not talking about how you want these guys to play

I'm talking about who you want to trade in

Who can we bring in that improves our list in terms of talent and experience by losing Sylvia and Moloney?