Viney12

Yes but some of the early information has proven to be true, hasn't it?

Perhaps they weren't stabs in the dark.

No, who's seen the contract Scully has been offered? Who's seen the $5m figure over 5 years?

No one

all we hear is "....tom scully has REPORTEDLY been offered $5m over 5 years"

Fair points.

1/ Could be argued that the crowd turn up because it is a big game. Chicken and egg, it's only my opinion, no facts to back it up.

2/ They will struggle for the first couple of years in comparison to Gold Coast, but I actually think that GWS are smart going after younger players. Gold Coast will not be in a position to challenge for a flag for 3-4 years, at that stage Ablett, Bock, Brown and Brennen will be in their 30's, Risca will be 28. The players GWS are recruiting will be peaking at the right time. The AFL are giving GWS concessions over two years, so they should be able to draft a least as good as Gold Coast.

3/ I read some info and seen them driving past. With a blank cheque from the AFL they will be very good.

4/ Maybe because they are stuck inside in the freezing cold 100 km from a decent beach

5/ The difference between the two amounts could mean setting himself up in a nice house with some investments, or never having to work again.

1/ Players often talk about the big game occasion, crowd noise spurring them on etc. How many times have we seen a team come from behind after the crowd getting involved. I'm sure it plays some part. Look at Essendon the other week against Port, Melbourne a few years ago against Freo in that massive comeback, the crowd noise was amazing and you could see it lift the players

2/ they'll be shell shocked after getting beaten by 100+ points every week, not all will turn out to be good / great, some will leave to other clubs. It ain't as simple as saying they'll win flags

3/ Ours are regarded as some of the best in the comp

4/ or maybe because they have no interest ????????

5/ Not really, $600k a year for 5 years goes a long way to setting yourself up if managed well. Plus, future earning potential in Vic as a football surely is higher than in NSW after football.

Don't even begin to analyse this Herald Sun crap.

the Robinson piece is all supposition, no sources, just a stab in the dark when they had nothing else.

it's shelf life was a couple of hours until someone spoke to gws

Exactly my point

The whole Scully debacle of the year has been full of stabs in the dark, supposition, numerous unnamed sources etc.

Is everything written/said by a footballer truthful? Hmm.

No, but who's going to come out looking worse by lying?

If it's proven Scully lied, he'll be labelled that way forever

If Schwarz is wrong, as rfpc said, he can say he got fed bogus info

Fair points, my opinions are

1/ I think players have to say that, they don't want to tell members who are paying hard earned money that it really doesn't matter. With Scully being such a professional, I don't think the number of spectators would rank high on his motivating factors.

2/ Gold Coast were much better than I expected this year, imagine them in another two years. GWS will be one year behind them, with the full support of the AFL behind them. When the AFL wanted success in Brisbane and Sydney they got it, this will be no different. Meanwhile Melbourne is in trouble on and off the field, with no improvement this year, and no success in a hell of a long time, I'd back GWS to be winning in a grand final before Melbourne

3/ AAMI facilities are good, but we don't always have access to them. I have not seen them, but from what I have heard Casey facilities are well below what other clubs are using. Last year the ground was not up to standard and the team could not train there. Most clubs have pools, medical facilities and indoor training areas. I don’t think Casey has any of this. It seems that even North and Bulldogs have gone past Melbourne. The GWS will be first class, the AFL will ensure this.

4/ I'll go for quick surf after work tonight. Can't do that in Melbourne.

5/ Lots of money.

1/ Players of course would prefer (for the most part) to play in front of large crowds. Hence why "big games" are often played a higher intensity

2/ Gold Coast were better, but still not great. Without Ablett, Bock, Risca they would've been much worse, all seasoned players. It's looking like GWS won't have this. GC also came in to the comp in a boom draft and cleaned up. This draft where GWS will benefit is meant to be thing. They have also aimed for younger uncontracted players to recruit. They are far more than a year behind GC IMO

3/ Have you seen GWS facilities? do we know they are any better?

4/ not everyone surfs

5/ $600k p.a. for 5 years isn't a lot of money?

Nothing can be proven unfortunately. I'd like to have keycode to Adrian Anderson's filing cabinet so I could slip into AFL HQ and go retrieve it. But alas, I can't.

Someone has come out and said he knows how it went down ... David Schwarz. His tweet was strong and unequivocal. "Don't be so naive he got the offer last October".

From that cat-out-of-the-bag statement ... which no-one seems to want to acknowledge ... I extrapolate my theory and everything makes perfect sense.

It has to be accepted that one of them lied. I just don't think it was the Ox.

Schwarz' comments have been acknowledged, doesn't mean they have to be factual

Is everything written / said by a journo truthful?

What repercussions have we seen against journo's for getting Walker wrong? None

You need to stop taking everything you see at face value and start using a bit of grey matter.

"Lying is football's second language and clearly it's biggest blight"

- Patrick Smith

Seriously, your arrogance is astounding

I'm wondering why they didn't parade Davis around today. Perhaps they're hoping Scully commits and if the rumours of the captaincy carrot are true they'll present the two co-captains together in the fullness of time.

Davis is being "unveiled" at a presser in Canberra tomorrow

Happy? Yes ... but it would be tempered a little by the fact that I think he dragged this out unecessarily.

More accurately I would be embarrassed that my analysis was so off key and would probably post some sort of apologetic mea culpa that will be howled down and laughed at by those who hold the opposing view to mine.

My question to you then is ... will you, Rpfc and others feel similarly embarrassed when he leaves or will you let your ego get the better of you and steadfastly buy into the nonsense that he made his decision this week?

I suspect it will be the latter.

Let's put it in to perspective though

It's announced GWS are interested in Scully in Feb?

Scully holds a presser in March, at his request, where he denies an approach / discussions

In may Stynes states he had a sit down with Tom, Tom told him to his face no approach

Scully has maintained he will decide at seasons end

A whole lot of rumour, innuendo, speculative journalism follows

Positions from some in the media get watery

Journos are shown up to be making wrong calls (Carlisle from Port, Walker from Crows)

They nail a couple (Ward / Palmer) however, these guys state their decision wasn't cemented until late (Ward says late last week he'd pretty much made up his mind)

We hear Scully is going to tour the facilities

GWS CEO says its news to him, Tom's been given an offer and is obviously deciding, including talks with Melbourne

So surely it's simpler to believe, Scully is merely doing what he said initially, deciding after the season is done

Otherwise it's Stynes, Lyon et al. lying to save their / the clubs reputation (which in reality is BS as if anything we'll receive sympathy from many if he does go) AND the GWS management who have all agreed to extend Tom, GWS and the MFC the courtesy of delaying the announcement so we can save Tom face, and the club face and allow them to spread out their marquee signings

Maybe you just need to simplify your view of the whole thing

C'mon Vines. Harden up a bit. Compared to the sprays I've copped over the year for holding my opinion that's nothing.

I'm not perturbed by it, not by any stretch

Merely trying to demonstrate you are passing it off as fact

Holmes was confident the AFL's 18th side, who will play in the league for the first time in 2012, had made a strong pitch to Scully.

"I think he has to work through the process with Melbourne, obviously they've got some discussions going on. From our point of view, we're clear about what our offer was, that's for him to consider," he said.

"Tom and Melbourne are obviously going through their discussions. Where that ends I don't know.

"It's well documented we're interested in Tom. That's been on the table, it's up to Tom to decide what he wants to do."

So here we have the CEO of GWS - again we either believe him (Holmes ergo Tom) or he too is in cahoots with a long list of "liars"

(reading the entire article - even he is rubbishing the journo's - "We would need a salary cap of $20M")

Where's that article from?

His manager is on record as stating that Tom wouldn't look at the GW$ offer until the season is over (a ridiculous stance but nevertheless the one he took). Thus, we have to sit through this charade of Tom opening up the envelope, mulling over the offer, visiting the facilities and then 'making a decision'.3 days isn't quite long enough. A week is about right to make a 'careful, studied decision'.C'mon ... time to wake up.

Disagree - certainly a bit of [censored] for tat - aggression met with aggression but I have been sparring with RR for 6 months on this ( embarrassed to say) and disagreed with 98% of his opinion but havent been called an idiot yet ( the day is still young). I dont think he has passed anything off as fact

What about above?

I'll back you on this one RR ( love the courage of your convictions)

I am on the record as not agreeing with your opinion in any way shape or form. I am guilty of reading every one of the gazillion posts on this subject and lots from RR and there is nothing in what RR has said that is not possible or illogical and according to some scribes ( Ox) they would probably tell RR he is 100% on the money ( or in Ox's case 98% on the money).

Again, I dont agree and as long as RR doesnt pass it off as fact ( which he hasnt) then its just a different opinion to mine.

Postscript - RR got banned for calling Tom the "L" word - but if you take subtefuge into account all the way down the line as Ox has (and RR) then there is nothing in the RR scenario that you can state categorically is wrong ( in the absense of facts)

He does try to pass it off as fact - by implying any one who thinks other wise needs to "wake up" or is an "idiot"

Will you be happy or sad if Tom decides to stay?

Honestly, I think he'd be sad, but I'm sure there'd be another messy story to go along

"Tom had signed, GWS checked out his knee, didn't give it the tick, revoked their offer, he begrudginly accepts our offer, he'll be off after Free Agency"

His manager is on record as stating that Tom wouldn't look at the GW$ offer until the season is over (a ridiculous stance but nevertheless the one he took). Thus, we have to sit through this charade of Tom opening up the envelope, mulling over the offer, visiting the facilities and then 'making a decision'.

3 days isn't quite long enough. A week is about right to make a 'careful, studied decision'.

C'mon ... time to wake up.

I'm sorry I just don't buy into convulted soap opera conspiracy theories

If it makes you happy to believe that's it's been a lie and a web of intrigue and deception etc, the good for you

Don't make out like I (and others) are idiots because we choose to subscribe to simpiler theories

Again ... according to my view ... Tom did the right thing by the club informing them early and they have repaid him by allowing the charade to play out as we are now witnessing it in order to protect his reputation.

Don't worry, it will all be over very soon and the compensation dance then will then begin in full voice.

So it's now mid week - his commitments to the club are over - why don't we know by now?

Is there a set deadline is there where his reputation becomes "safe"

Your linking of the two issues is incorrect.

Protecting a player's reputation is about upholding the club's image as well.

It would not have been a good look for Schwab not to have come out and defended Tom they way he did.

So now the season is over, and Tom's had "some time" to decide, if the club knew, we'd know

I've said this many times but ... to protect the player's reputation and further its interests of maximizing the quality of its compensation.

Go back in time to the Schwarz/Schwab SEN interview and the motivations of the club will become quite clear.

I must have missed "Players Good Reputation" part in the list of things taken into account for deciding compensation

I thought all I saw was Age / Size and Length of Contract

So it was just the Ward conference?

Yeah Ward and Palmer

Carp.

Any position is defensible if it is backed up by sound logic and not proven incorrect by incontrovertible truth.

Your logic hasn't been sound, in my opinion

You've created a vision of a soap opera

If Melbourne knew, we'd know. Why would they play along with the so called charade?

In the last. no idea, not sure anyone does bar Tom

Perhaps he doesn't even know

I'm still in the gutfeel will stay, open to this possibility he may go, but I don't buy into the tinfoil hat conspiracies

I'm firmly in the don't know category

I'm just making out official that I don't know.

It's the only defensible position. Any poster who thinks they do is full of [censored].

Bingo

I can't really be stuffed to be honest, have a look through this thread there are a vast array of reasons. Perhaps the biggest one was early on when Stynes said something along the lines of "this situation is making kids lie to firends / family" was the first time alram bells started ringing.

Heard from a few people close to the club that they are fairly sure he is gone as well.

If anyone wants a $100 on it let me know.

Stynes stated that and then about 1 - 2 months later in an article / interview, stated he sat down with Tom, Tom looked him in the eye and he said no decision has been made

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/player-profiles/

So Rhys Palmer's player profile is up on the GWS website. But....but I thought his manager said they would talk to another club? Oh you mean they just BS'ed everyone? Surely not?

I really find it hard to believe anyone thinks Scully will stay at the MFC. To me it is so blatantly bloody obvious he is going it's quite laughable.

His manager stated that there was another club interested, and they would talk to them

However, Palmer accepted the GWS offer

What possibly could his manager gain by saying another club was interested?

He is gone. Alistair Lynch on Insider last night basically admitted it. Dunstall and Scott got it out of him. He's gone up there to check out his new home, not check out what its like compared to our facilities. Deal will be done end of the week.

Lynch said a decision will be made by the end of the week