Viney12

Free Agency begins this year. The work should have started already.

tbh Viney i cannot give you specific names as i have no idea of opposition contract details. The club recruiters should know this info backwards.

We should be the most active club in the draft this year. We are that deficient it aint funny.

BP should be ashamed of his tenure at our club. Junior being delisted i agreed with at the time, but to not then seek out an experienced player to cover that HUGE gap was pathetic.

The club has grand visions for the future, but seems to forget how important tomorrow is.

We drafted too many kids and not enough big bodies. The ratio was wrong. That has always bothered me.

But as a paid up member i am not inside the club.

I personally don't believe Free Agency is going to explode like others do. Firstly, there is still a salary cap. Secondly there is still team loyalty.

Where we are lacking is experienced players, yet people are wanting to trade out 2 best experienced players.

I'm sorry WYL, but until you name some viable picks, this is all irrelevant

Name some wishes then, not ones we'll get, but some players you'd like to trade in for Moloney / Sylvia

And be realistic

There was the binge drinking episode last year for a start.

Then there may be things that are not in the public domain and it would be unfair to bring up here if that's the case.

The binge drinking episode was the biggest load of horsepoop I have ever seen

Firstly, complete lies were told about Moloney pissing on a bar, he was vindicated for this

Honestly, I was furious at the club when they took the VC of him, it was a non issue for mine

And don't imply [censored] like you just have with your second sentence, ludicrous

Then, if they are not performing on-field, what is their value?

Let's give them some more time under Neeld before they're chopped

We're not trading them mid season, so at least give them a chance to perform

Sylvia had a fractured back, comes back round 5 as sub, and his next game against the cats at KP (which was never going to be an easy game)

Moloney played round 1 when clearly he shouldn't have, he was obviously struggling with injury, misses 2 weeks and comes back in the midst of our horror draw

I just don't think we can be so quick to flush 300 games of experience (and lets be honest, they are both at least good players) when we have so few experienced mature bodies

How about one and a bit good seasons? And as far as the homesick WA boy argument goes... wasn't Clark a homesick WA boy?

Edit: ok, on reading a few comments saying Clark was not homesick, he was still convinced he could manage his "family reasons" without returning to WA... money can cure all kinds of ailments.

I wouldn't say he's had a good one and bit good seasons yet

He was ok without being great last year and needs to string a few more together IMO (not doubting his talent, I think he'll be a great player but he's not get)

The question remains....what could we offer Bennell that he isn't going to get at the Gold Coast?

Nobody has ever said we Trade for Trade. We trade for what we need, just like other good clubs do. Otherwise this club is wasting its time.

The MFC is ripping my heart out right now and i am tired of it.

This is my point though

Who are we going to trade in.

Name some (realistic) options of players that've played 120 - 150 games that are going to make a difference AND be available AND want to come to Melbourne

The MFC have been ripping my heart out for 31 years, I get what you are saying.....but that's irrelevant to what we are discussing

Name 1 decent experienced mid that was traded in 2011 trade period? Zero. We got the pick of the trades with Mitch, the rest were in experienced talls (Tom Lynch / Tommy Walsh types)

Name 1 decent experienced mid that was traded in 2010 trade period? Zero

In 2009 there were 3 good mids traded. Burgoyne (who had clearly pre selected the Hawks), McGlynn and Kennedy (clearly our strategy at this time was youth and draft picks anyway)

2008 Farren Ray who was soft and outside at the time (hardened up at the Saints) and Brent Primsall (Moloney mkII)

So The point is, there isn't a huge availabilty of decent and experienced mids to trade for each year

People have a notion in their mind we can wriggle anyone loose from their club, but the facts remain, very few trades are actually done each trade period.

So, and not having a go, who are the players we should be targetting?

Sylvia- air head, only plays 1 good game every 6, always goes missing, not a leader,

Moloney- Not a leader & should have been captain, but issues of the field

Both these guys have had issues of the field, how can you create the right culture when your experience players are not leaders?

Please explain off field issues for Moloney.....

I'm sure I've heard this sort of statement made before .

Then we landed Clarke.

I was actually going to mention that in my post, but thought against it

With Clark - he predominately wanted out of QLD AND we were able to throw a massive offer at him to entice him over

What would we be able to offer Bennell?

He's guaranteed a lot of game time, he's going through with a group all his age, with a chance to build something....we have little to offer him

It's not just a couple of games - it's the way he handles the footy, his skills, the way he effortlessly glides over the field, and the way he plays like Jurrah with intensity (but without the high marking).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but I would like to see him string together a few more of those performances

Geez everyone froths after a couple of good games

Let's see him do it for the next couple of years before he becomes a love child (not go at OP, more at the media drool)

Anyway, no chance, he's a WA boy who was heavily rumoured to be homesick last year - doubt there'd be a chance to entice him to Vic

We recruit the best available as we did with Mitch Clark.

We certainly do not hold on to players who are average at best just because they have experience.

Fact is a Mitch Clark doesn't come around every trade time

Fact is we've wooed players for trade in the past with no luck

We were fortunate to have a very attractive package available for Clark

People seem to live in hope we're going to be able to dislodge these experienced guns from other clubs, but it's mainly fantasy and wishful thinking

Who are we going to dislodge and intice over.....and let's be realistic

People seem to think we can just make an offer to Adelaide / Dangerfield and he's ours.....if it were that easy, we'd be doing it every year. All Clubs would.

But let's look at reality.

How many guns get traded each year?

So the reality of the situation is, we'd be trading in average experienced players, and delisting / trading out average experienced players.

Trade for trades sake.....and pointless

We'd then be facing yet another bout of "ripping the heart out of the club" as we did with Jnrmac and the subsequent flow on effect

Before last year he showed next to nothing IMO. First year he didn't look as slow. First year he started to kick to the advantage of his team mates, rather than his signature up and unders, which he'd made a facet of his game since moving from Geelong.

I've never rated him. Last year he [censored] me off, performing against weaker sides and not giving a yelp against ANY decent opposition. He is indicative of where we are at. The fact that some supporters are wraps for him is more to do with our dearth of midfield guns over the years. Just as it was with McLean. So glad we got rid of him, yet still people were whinging about that trade. Can't get a game for the Bullants now. Moloney is a B grader at best, with no defensive side to his game whatsoever.

Last year against St Kilda, Collingwood and the Dogs (all losses, all teams better than us) Moloney was one of our best

And please enlighten me to WHO in God's name is whinging about the McLean trade????

Agreed. But what happens when these experienced players are teaching our kids bad habits or in some cases the wrong way to play?

Viscious circle has been created. We do need to recriut experience i have no doubt.

I agree with you also, but recruiting experience isn't as easy as some tend to make out

What's the good in cutting players and recruiting as experienced yes equally average players?

Agree Key Deefender, especially the part about the dearth of leadership

Brad Green is our most experienced player with 243 games, then Aaron Davey with 155

Green is looking like he's on his last legs, as is Davey, so if these 2 go at seasons end (may not happen, but possible) as well as Sylvia and Moloney, we'd be left with only 5 guys with 100+ games (as it stands right now)

We think we have experience and leadership issues now, imagine it if we threw all experienced players away

The term barometer is so misleading - we were not losing games in 2011 because of Moloney not finding it 9 times less than in wins, and we were not losing games in 2010 because Moloney found it 5.7 times less than in wins/draws (BTW - out of the four games he missed in 2010 - we won 3).

If we lost a game - Moloney would be one of the culprits, not leading the way.

The finish in the Brownlow is misleading - does anyone think that he is a top 10 player, or even midfielder, in the AFL?

He is an elite clearance player who is inconsistent and struggles against better teams.

At times yes, other times no

The reality is in the last few years, when we've won, they all look great. When we lose, they all look bad

It's like supporting Jekyll and Hyde

However, he's had plenty of good games in losses over the last few years

Gets plenty of touches, plenty of clearances, plenty of tackles.

There were a few noteable down performances last year when we were getting smashed by top 4 teams, and everyone is hanging Moloney's career on these

He had

27 touches, 7 tackles against the Swans last year (draw)

25 touches, 7 tackles against the Saints last year (loss)

35 touches, 9 tackles against Port last year (loss)

25 touches, 6 tackles against Richmond last year (loss)

25 touches, 7 tackles against Collingwood last year (loss)

2010 he had

38 touches, 7 tackles against collingwood (draw) - eventual premiers

27 touches, 7 tackles against carlton (loss)

22 touches, 6 tackles against hawthorn (loss)

24 touches, 6 tackles against collingwood (loss) - 1st game

In fact, of his 18 games in 2010 only 3 did he have under 20 touches and 1 was due to early injury

He played in 12 losses that year and was one of our more consistent and better performed in these matches

In 2009 of his 21 games he only dipped below 20 possessions on 4 occassions. He played in 17 losses that year and was one of our more consistent and better performed in these matches

Your post was generally supportive of Brent but you are killing him kindly with compliments:

- 12 months of exposed form isn't long enough to form judgements? It's a long time.

- "GENERALLY poor against the better teams LAST YEAR" used in support of Brent...

- Going back to the 2010 QB game and the years 2010 and 2009 for evidence of consistent performance...

I agree that he can give more, that is why he gets so much attention and criticism. It would be worse if we weren't talking about him.

The way that we have a seeming indifference to the disappearance of the pre-2011 Brad Green - and how very few expect more from him.

My point was that Brent's ENTIRE career is being viewed as the last 12 months. Brent has not always struggled against good teams.

He's being called lazy etc. by a lot of people, which I think is completely unfair based on his career.

Hence my comment re 2009 / 2010 he was very good despite the fact we were very bad.

I used QB 2010 as it was a game where he dominated against the eventual premier (just checked stats, 38 touches, 7 tackles).

You say I had to go back to 2009 / 2010?? Because my point being that everyone is defining his career on 2011 as being always a down hill skiier.

Well he wasn't a down hill skiier when we were at our absolute worst in '09 / '10

Here's Brent's career stats

Yes stats dont paint the whole picture, but they give some idea

It's an undeniable fact Brent struggled at times against top teams last year - newsflash though - all players did

That tells me that he may in fact be a barometer

Reality is, he was top 10 in the brownlow and won our BnF

Name one game that Moloney has dominated for the MFC against good opposition. I go every week and cannot think of a single occasion. It's always against weaker sides or interstate sides in Melbourne.

As people are rightly noting in this thread - when the chips are down, he goes missing and even when playing his best footy, doesn't run the other way.

It's funny really how people's perceptions are based all in the last 12 months

Sure, Brent dominated weaker teams last year and was GENERALLY poor against the better teams LAST YEAR

However, in previous years, Brent has been one of our better performer in losses against good teams

Brent had a very good 2009 and 2010 and we had plenty of losses those years

(oh and if you want an example, QB vs Collingwood in 2010 (eventual premiers) Brent had about 35 - 40 touches)

Cons

Having a 105kg beast crashing into him time after time

I'll never forget what Jamar did to NicNat in their first encounter

Mining interests outside the cap ie Judd-Vi$y maybe?

Nope, can't happen.

I think the reason they can squeeze in Cloke is the fact that Pav is Veteran listed, only half of his salary will count to the cap. Also, Sandi is going to be available for veteran's list next year which frees up more space.

Although, I know we have a fair bit of space (using 92.5% or something like that?), and don't disagree that we should go after a classy midfielder with some experience.

Incorrect, the Vets List rule changes and now only $100k of vets salary will go off the Cap (as opposed to the 50% it used to be)

Freo may be able to afford Cloke now, but when their young guns develop, where's their money going to come from

What would people think to a Petterd-Mitch Clarke trade at years end?

Nice insight :thumbsup:

It doesn't matter!

The coach should not talk!

He should only converse in hand signals, face contortions, or possibly onomatopoeias like 'hurumpf' and 'arrghh.'

Too much talk!

I honestly can't believe all the tripe I'm reading on this thread about us doing deals with GWS/GC, and anything else that has been mentioned.

At the end of the day, if we finish 16th (as per the current ladder), we have pick 3. If GWS or GC wish to pick Viney with either Pick 1 or 2, then we have to use our Pick 3 on him. If the MFC believe he is worth that, they spend it, quite simple.

The solution is simple. We could be in a fantastic position to go in to this draft with pick 3, 4, 11(ish) and get Viney with our 2nd round pick. We MUST do whatever we can to ensure GWS/GC don't want to use Pick 1 or 2, but one thing is for sure, this DOESN'T involve some secret deal - give these bastards nothing. If they still want to try and backdoor us by putting in a dummy bid, I'm all for calling their bluff and letting them have him. We will get either Whitfield or whoever else is rated a top 2 pick - I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I honestly don't think GWS or GC would risk missing out on a true, potential pick 1 or 2, just to shaft us by trying to force our hand on a potential pick 5-15. Anyone thining otherwise really is jumping at shadows.

I agree with this also

If we have to use (going by current ladder position) pick 3, and the club thinks is worthwhile, then great, if we get him for a 2nd rounder, even better

I can't see teams potentially squandering a # 1 or # 2 pick in a supposed super draft merely on spite, purely because of the potential to backfire

Personally, I'd rather see some bloody wins and end up with a lower pick in the 1st round - i'm sick of losing

I'm scared that we are creating too much hype around the poor kid (Jack Viney).

Will he become the next Jack Watts next year if he doesn't perform up to our elevated standards we are unfairly setting for him?

I can see threads full of hundreds of comments from us arguing, bickering and verbally slaying one another (just like the Watts thread) about whether Jacks gonna make it or not, and what draft pick we should have used to pick him up in light of how he is/isn't performing on the field.

eeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkk!

I agree with this

If we're forced to take him with a low pick (a la 3) and he doesn't perform, we'll cop it left right and centre

GWS bid Pick 1 for Daniher. Essendon locks in pick 12.

GWS bid Pick 1 for Viney. Melbourne locks in Pick 3.

They can do both.

Can they make 2 bids?

He's had 11 games without making much impact for mine. Just doesn't seem to get enough of it. I would love to be proved wrong but 11 games without leaving an impression of any sort apart from that horrific injury in slightly bizarre circumstances is not encouraging.

11 games in a horrendous team, being absolutely beseiged in the backline - and we wonder why he wasn't starring?

Strauss showed a bit for mine. Had a few 20 + possie games, used it well, is reasonably hard at the contest, good runner, nice kick, bulked up a fair bit

I'm happy to let the lad have a few more games before we call it bust

A fit Rohan Bail is a very valuable player

Definitely not a mistake at pick 64

If he stays injury free and retains some early form, he'll be a steal at pick 64