Viney12

you know..strangely ...I did !!

hes attempting to out cart before horse.. chicken before egg etc.

He also supposes that acknowledging a reality is the acceptance of crap. I can assure you I dont do the latter.

But lets call them as we seem then huh . The Hawks have Won 3-1/2 games more than us winning 15 more Qtrs in doing so.. Their % is a healthy 31 per ahead of us. Theyve shown a greater abillty to putting 3 or 4 good quarters together as compared us . theyve accounted for WCE, SyD, Sainters Doggies. Twice been in range of the Cats......

I see nothing to suggest we can currently be more competitve than be withing 5-6 goals of them.

You think players are attracted to clubs based on their supporters ?? really ??

Ha obviously you didn't read....actually, understand mine

With more supporters becomes more members, with more members becomes more money, with more money becomes better sponsors etc. with more money comes attracting more players

By the way, I think we'll get smashed, i'm not defending that point - I'm talking about his notion of supporters making a club a better club

How on earth do you arrive at that logic. it suppsoes that teh list is defined in some manner by talent ascribed by a judiciary that judges worthiness on the basis of crowds, supporters etc etc.

The club determines its list. The players ability /ocahing abillity determines success. We go and watch..Thats the length and breadth of our REAL influence..

Not really - if we have supporters who want to sign up for membership and who want to turn up to games and who want to put their hand in their pocket for the club, we end up with more funds.

In turn we attract better established players / coaches etc which improves our list / coaching ability etc.

Read his words "...we will be a better CLUB..."

I don't know, why did you?

You have no right to tell me to 'drop it' TimD. Who the hell do you think you are?

I'll listen to the Mods and abide by their rules, even if I don't particularly like them. But I won't be bullied by an upstart like you who thinks I have no right to ask questions.

I am as passionate and patriotic as the next supporter and I reckon something stinks about what we've seen unfold with the Tom Scully saga this year.

Our own President Jim Stynes has said that the entry of GWS into the competition has "just caused a lot of deception in our game" and that it's "causing players basically to lie --- lie to their families, friends, their mates".

That's a very sad state of affairs but if the big fella is saying it, then I sure as hell believe him.

Whether that is what has occurred here with Tom Scully, I don't know conclusively. But what we've got is a former champion of the club - David Schwarz - coming out and saying that it has. And he's now backed up by a host of journalists who are saying or implying the same thing.

As supporters who invest in and support our club through thick and thin, surely we have a right to know what the hell is going on!

Problem is ... I doubt we ever will.

The hindsight with that March Article is nothing

2 months later - this

Make no mistake, Schwarz, Barrett, Stevens and others are inferring if not outright stating that Tom stared directly at the cameras on March 4 this year and flat out lied to the public and to all Melbourne supporters.

The charges are very serious and if unfounded are a slur on Tom's character and he should sue.

So why doesn't he? What is going on here?

Makes this article from March 28 kind of interesting in hindsight doesn't it ... Recruits Forced To Lie, Stynes Says

So you'll conveniently ignore the May Article?

So can we add Jim Stynes to the list of those you think are lying?

That's rubbish - we have to offer Tom a sustainable amount that enables us to pay our other required players what they deserve too.

The only argument that stands up is that we'd have $600K/year to look at other players - that's what it's costing us.

Fair point

Rubbish. The MFC is doing what is in the best interests of the MFC they cant put all their planning on hold for the sake of one player. They have done the right thing in my opinion and have compromised by not forcing the issue earlier in the season and not waiting until the last second when they have other players to look after as well aslook at other options such as maybe luring a player that the $600K could go towards if Scully heads to GWS. If Scully was fair dinkum about wanting to stay at the club he could easily make a decision now I mean seriously it's not rocket science. Either you stay here for less money or you go to GWS for a hefty payday. It just depends what he wants out of footy I guess does he just see it as a job or does he live and breathe it. It's fair enough to say that he told the club last year contract talks would be on hold til after 2011 and yes other players have done this before but this is a different situation. You can't compare apples with big Orange and black watermelons.

I've backed him to this point but I'm starting to think the kids gone. His manager says it's not the type of decision you make between training sessions? Well for the love of god surely this has been weighing on the kids mind all year and he'd have an idea of what he's going to do. Are we seriously expected to believe the kid will not even think about his future until the final siren in round 24 (or finals) and then meditate on this decision like a monk for a week? He knows what the MFC can get him and yes there may be some discussion about the particulars but if he wants to stay surely he can agree to an in principle contract with Melbourne and let his manager work out the particulars. Through no fault if his own the current situation has the kid putting himself ahead of the club and whether he intended it or not that is the way it's played out not he wants to stay with the MFC fine come to an agreement if he doesn't in the next couple of weeks then see you later don't let the door hit you on the way out.

This is my one and only issue with what Scully is doing

I respect his right to put off talks to the end of the year, I respect his right to look at offers from GWS, I believe IF he decides to go to GWS that decision will be made after the season is over (gut feel is he will stay).

However, the knock on effect this causes is a potential issue

If we don't know if he's staying, we don't know if we have that reported $600k to play with. This delays finalising contract negotiations with other players, i.e. Sylvia

We may be happy to pay Sylvia $600k p.a. without scully, but only $350k p.a. with Scully

Sylvia may want to deal now, but he's not happy with what's being put out to him and may not take an assurance "there may be more if tom goes" type situation. He could decide he wants to be traded - effectively meaning we lose Sylvia AND potentially Scully

This is the one Issue I have with it being dragged out

Jaded...what you say holds water...but so to does the view that Velocity would use the Dees offer to leverage a better one out of GWS...it does unfortunately cut two ways !!

But the "actual" GWS is the same as the offer that's been reported for months now

Seeking Melbourne's offer didn't seemingly get used as leverage

$1m a year for 5 years is still $1m a year for 5 years

Maybe, but not when he is 20 or 21. The $600k is the average over each of 5 yrs.

Apparently. It too was on potential, which he never delivered (please, no new Bruce thread). Also, we had to get total player payments up to the minimum - there weren't too many others worthy of highish $s. We have plenty, potentially, now.

No way Martin is on $3m over 5 yrs.

Martin signed a 2 year extension on $400k per annum

Scully Worth An Ablett

And now Caro and The Age weigh in on the compensation issue.

What a surprise!

Yep, she's so well respected *rolls eyes*

whether you sources are good or bad if you go into the public domain and shout for al lto hear and read "X" and its provable as either Libellous or Slander then the Utterer/Author is up for it irregardless.

You will note many are guarded and careful in crafting their comments. Invariably the paper/radio/tv for which these work would cop the fallout ( and pay the damages) so often these 'identities' are cautioned by legal depts.

It is still interesting that so much is bandied about.

You honestly believe Mike Sheehan putting forward an opinion that "....I believe Scully has signed"

Or the Ox ".....I'm 98% certain"

is going to lead to civil action?

On what? Reporting their opinion?

And you think EVERY news outlet is going to cop it?

They've all had a go

You can't. But I disagree with this notion that journalists get everything wrong.

Research would show that they get a hell of a lot right, a lot of the time.

Who says journo's are never wrong? No one

But they're not always right either

Did Pavlich end up at Gold Coast?

The problem with saying "you got bad info" is that the next time you try to break a story or go on the record people will doubt you.

Your reputation takes a hit. Like The Boy Who Cried Wolf, you lose credibility.

That is the ramification.

It's not that hard to understand.

So the majority of Sports Journos are going to lose their credibility if they're wrong?

Name one sports journo who has only ever posted 100% fact

I I dont know about some of this lack of repercussions etc. I would have thought that anyone in the media ( or otherwise for that matter) would need to tread carefully before besmirching anothers good character. There are such things as Libel and Slander still.

But a lot of Sports Journos are implying this about Scully

If they're all wrong and he signs with Melbourne, they can just claim they got bad info

Do you think we're going to see all the big named sports journos sacked en masse?

Don't know. But amazing that the Ox would go on record and say that don't you think?

Why is that amazing?

What are the ramifications for him if Scully stays?

Name a journo that has only made comments and opinions when they're 100% certain?

How do you know what is going on with either of them?

Neither have signed, we do know that.

The report on Sylvia mentioned talks were continuing - his management haven't put off talks as far as anyone knows

Managers certainly haven't been shy about doing this in recent times

I think we'll keep both

I believed that you were serious but I didn't take it seriously if that makes sense.

You have been making the same noises for some time "making Scully sign" "ending the charade" etc.

I took those posts as being serious also.

Sylvia hasn't delayed talks though - they are continuing

Big difference

^That has gone over my head.

A neurotic Gary Numan guest starring on Seinfeld? That wasn't my hidden gem.

why you [censored]

When my St Kilda supporting buddies were having a go at Goddard they didn't he just wasn't 'tuned in'...

They called him soft, and precious, and rubbish.

Just as with Cale.

Agreed - Goddard was often referred to as a pea heart

Oh yes, the annual hilariously repetitive Dick jokes. How I've been hanging out for these.

How so full of joy you are

Would like to see the players warm up in # 9 guernseys, then come out and tackle north relentlessly from the first bounce to final siren

Didn't Beams recently score about 400 runs in a cricket game down in Tassie? IIRC he played football on the Saturday and then went out and smashed it on Sunday at the cricket....

Paul Prymke....suffered back injury and didn't play again?

What about Luke Ottens?