Viney12

Some of you blokes need to grow up.

There is nothing wrong with this article.

Mark Stevens was in a privileged position for that draft and he has gone back with the benefit of hindsight to give us who weren't there some insight. It's a perfectly reasonable journalistic exercise, and pretty interesting.

So you don't like it, too bad. Shooting the messenger is always the easiest thing.

I don't rate Bennell at all and clearly we could have done better out of that draft. Broken leg or not, the mistake was Strauss for mine. I can live with Blease. He does have blistering pace and if he gets the confidence to use it he could develop into a valuable player.

Pick 19 was where got it wrong.

And once more on the subject of Watts, it was absolutely the right call. Others here have said it already but I'll add my voice to those who reckon NicNat is all iciing, no cake - plenty of highlights but little football sense. Watts is an innate footballer and highly skilled below the knees as well as balanced and able to take a contested grab as well as a reliable and accurate kick. He is about as well rounded as Mark Stevens, one of the better H-S journos.

You point to Blease's elite attribute in speed saying he could be valuable

What about Strauss' elite kicking? is that not a valuable asset? Look at Hawthorn, loaded with elite kicks

None of them where top 5? I think I've been very consistent - I was going to throw in Selwood.

& I will repeat early draft picks are gold in the right clubs - but if you actually read what I said you would know that.

Think I also said modern day drafting says if you are spending the money - you can pick up quality in the WHOLE drafting process - kinda sad I've got to continually repeat myself for you.

- but keep digging!!!

Continually repeat yourself for me?

My first post to you

I'm not disagreeing with your sentimen,t in fact to some extent I agree with you - just saying, you stuffed up putting Bartel in the list, implying he was a "late pick"

Clearly you're too arrogant to even admit that mistake though

But you were arguing "top 5 picks are gold" YOUR words not mine - chuckles cant you count?

So pick 8 is in your definition a "late" pick???

Shifting the goal posts now to say the argument was top 5

You've named a bunch of late picks and rookies and then plonked a pick 8 in there

I have no issues with Watts and still think he is devloping nicely, ifact I still believe Watts will have a better carreer than Nic Nat (although his highlight video will be much better). Strauss is to early to make the call on but Blease and Bennell are useless. Blease should go and joing his mate in GWS.

HA unbelievable

So Strauss has played 11 games, and it's too early to call

Whilst Blease spent near on 2 years recovering from a snapped leg and has played 6 games but he's useless?

Unbelievable

Agree RR we have enough nice boys to start our own Tabernacle Choir

God deliver us a fit narsty pricks who just want to win at all costs in the next draft

Is it ? I would suggest that none of Tapscott, Gysberts, Strauss, Blease, Fitzpatrick, Gawn ( yes I know he's injured), Cook, Jetta ( yes again), Bennell have yet shown enough to suggest they will make it. I would offer the suggestion that they are, collectively, one dimensional selections which might provide a clue as to why they went to Magner & Crouch in the pre-seasn Rookie draft.

Ticks to Trengove, Watts ( both obvious choices I would suggest ), Howe, Martin

Question marks on Bail, McDonald. was Morton one of his ?

Maric already gone.

Average performance with the picks we have had

Wow this is the issue I have with this kind of talk

Blease has played 6 games (after suffering a horrific leg injury just prior to being drafted). Could we give the kid a few games and preseasons before predicting whether he's "got it" at AFL level?

Tapscott, injury after injury - 16 games

Gysberts, injury after injury - 18 games

Bail - injury after injury - 21 games

Cook hasn't played...injured. Gawn looked pretty good for a young man mountain in his 4 games.

Fitzpatrick....1 game

Bennell I'll give you, looks a potential bust. 50 odd games in and he's still showing little progression (no good under pressure, shouldn't be playing back line). Jetta's shown a little, always injured.

We cannot yet judge BP.

what's killing us in the Cameron years

We have an absolute DEARTH of experienced 25 - 29 year olds

THIS is killing us

Is it no coincidence that Geelong SLAUGHTERED the 2001 draft and look at where they are now?

If Brock donated so much to the debt demolition then why did he leave us not long after?

I'm not bashing him but I am curious.

At the time we were stockpiling low picks with guys like Scully / Trengove to come in

Brock was battling injury / pace

Perhaps he saw the writing on the wall and wanted a nice contract before his time was up?

Specualtion but who knows?

How depressing

3 rounds in and all we have to look forward to is the draft

This whole father son thing can be a bit of a disadvantage now. Viney looks the goods, but lets just say he was only rated a top 15 pick- and we had pick 3. We would be forced to use pick 3 on him because other clubs would know our intentions on drafting him and force our hand. As it is we will have to use our first rounder on him- which will probably be pick 2 or 3 at this stage, and that is probably where he would have gone anyway.

So where is the advantage of this father/son rule? Apart from being guaranteed a particular player?

The reality is, if he's rated a pick 15, and we finished 3rd last with pick 3 (GWS and GC below us) there is NO WAY they would bid on Viney (if he was rated at 15) and force us to use Pick 3, not a chance in hell

Look at Sydney and Carlton this year, both got a father and son with relatively late picks

Thats not true. He got a "free kick" when a supporter introduced Kaspersky. If the sponsor win reflects the efforts of the CEO then he should be congratulated.

Thanks. On the basis well done CS.

Pity its a 1+2 yr contract and not a full 3 years. Hope they renew.

Jesus, how about we just take the 1 piece of good news we've had in well over a month and breath a collective sigh of relief

Pity this

Hope that

Good job Cam :thumbsup:

1. We advertised the position. Anyone had the right to apply

2. Its not all about Collingwood, Geelong lost one too.

3. It didnt affect the Grand Final

4. Did Eddie play by this motto when he poached Malthouse

5. Neeld wanted to stay and coach the finals, but it was Malthouse who told him to leave.

6. I'd rather get the coach I want than want for the smorgasboard after the season ends to find a coach. Id accept a fine for the right coach!

7. AFL is introducing free agency - isnt that a type of poaching?

8. AFL is riddled with corruption, they need a big clean out. AD has all his puppets licking the cream off his hands.

9. Integrity? Well AD, why dont you mention Scully? Oh thats right, it was a masterstroke wasnt it.... well you know what, so was us getting Neeld.

10. AD GFY.

Pretty much how I see it

Especially the part re Collingwood poaching A SENIOR PREMIERSHIP WINNING COACH in Malthouse

What I would also like to know - take the Neeld scenario for example

A lot of talk before we'd announced Neeld as Senior Coach was that he was going to be offered the gig at Adelaide

Under this scheme would Adelaide have been fined also?

I have listened to posters with the luxury of hindsight tell us how we recruited badly and who we should have picked.

Lets step up to the plate right now.

Name one player after Taggart and Tynan picks who we missed out on (without the benefit of seeing them play).

At least that way you can have cred by saying - I told you so at the time.

Looking at the draft - nothing stands out

We picked 2 in and under players, which we needed plus a mature age KPP (Sellar)

The only one really standing out to me at the moment is potentially Aaron Hall - he looked pretty good for GC in the NAB

can we name them all.

I can see K O'D, viney, one of the febeys, Neita, Connolly,Robbo, Strawbs.

Check shirt -is that hoppy?

Who is leaning over in pink ?

And green tshirt on the right under Connells ? who is that ?

Yes definitely Hoppy

Pink and green shirts - not sure

I agree Dr... but I suppose the point I was trying to make was that regardless of what they "should" be doing, and whether we like it or not, they will be playing with the added/perceived weight of responsibility - the "doing it for the gipper" (to quote an old, urrrgggghhhh, Ronald Reagan film) effect; being such a young team, will they be up to that?

To answer your question straight, in my opinion - no

It won't be through lack of trying, however, talent wise, cohesiveness with gameplan, experience etc. I don't think they're quite there

Shattering

RIP Jim, inspirational man

When I saw this thread title I thought to myself- what senior players??? O yeah the ones that turn to water and fold like a deck of cards as soon as the going gets a little tough. The ones that show no leadership or direction whatsoever. The ones that are lucky to get a game every week. That's right I'm pointing the finger at you Davey,Green,Moloney,Sylvia and Jamar. The two that are excused are jones and riv as they always give a consistent effort,show immense courage and lead by example on field. Can't say much for the rest at all though.

Bit stiff on the Russian?

For those sprouting that all other clubs have FOJ sponsorship ( bar PA) and we dont - are you aware of how much each club gets for their FOJand BOJ sponsorship ? How does the compare with what we are getting from EW ? What is the total amount of our sponsorship compared with other clubs ?

I think these broader questions are the benchmark for how our commercial division is performing rather than worrying about one name on the front of our jumper.

Agreed

Financially EW has taken us to a new level

Surely this allows the club to bide it's time to get the right deal

I think the argument is that these senior players are setting a terrible example, and that we'd be better off if our younger guys forged their own way.

I can't disagree with that, however I also think it's important to allow the senior players redemption under a new coach and regime

I know it is early in the year and most demonlanders will probably disagree or throw in the usual 'Its just the start of the season' comments but i wanted to ask what peoples opinions would be of trying to trade off some senior players at seasons end if they dont pull there weight this year.

Players like Sylvia, Davey maybe Rivers can be a class acts if they are motivated right with the right game-plan and team mates who protect them.

I have always felt that the reason that they possibly do struggle is because there are not many/enough senior players for them to work together and protect each other, and that there never will be for these boys at the MFC.

It seems evident that these players careers are on the balance at the moment at the MFC when they could be flourishing elsewhere, and that they could have some good trade value seasons end. Possibly pick up some 2nd round draft picks in the super draft, or pick up a player who could grow with the rest of the crop who are coming through. I saw on bigfooty someone suggested a Sylvia for Caddy trade for example.

Long term I think it would be better as I can't see any of the current senior players becoming a premiership player at the MFC at the moment sadly.

We've traded, delisted, retired etc. enough of our senior players in recent years

I really don't think we can afford to lose anymore

That's the same attitude that saw St Kilda get nothing for Luke Ball and Melbourne get nothing for Cameron Bruce.

Really? I thought it was Bruce not signalling his intention until AFTER trade period that led us to getting nothing

^{Watch the last}

You're speaking rubbish. There's far more to it than one poor NAB Cup showing. I've had the same concerns since he started his career. I had the same concerns watching him at Casey. His talent is undeniable and it seems that his talent is the only thing you're able to focus on. Others have a broader perspective.

You're entitled to your opinion, I just don't share it

I certainly think in that very dark patch for us last year, he was one of the few showing fight and intensity

After he was made sub against GC I think he showed fight and intensity for the rest of the year

I'll agree in 2010 he did seem to coast - but I give him leeway due to the fact he was so skinny and finding his feet

My point is the intensity he showed for a long stretch of games last year is forgotten due to the one poor NAB cup game

Read what I said - the old perceptions (which were probably true) resurface

It's hit the fan because 3 highly respected player/coaches/special comments (respected is debatable) all had the same opinion on Jack and then the journalists all scramble like seagulls to a Sunday afternoon fish and chips picnic and feast on these comments. Plus he carries the #1 DP tag which carries more emphasis than a pick 19 say.

The facts are he was relatively quiet in a game that was won (which seems to have got lost), after showing glimpses in 2011 of what we come to expect as his biggest fans. We want him to continue on the J curve of improvement. It's a big ask and it requires some patience for many. Let us see what he produces this week and over the first half of 2012 with a new look forward line first . I'm sure the plaudits will soon come and Mick and co may be the first to hail young Jack, seeing as they're on the cutting edge of commentary.

Just because these guys know the game, were champions etc. doesn't mean that they're not sharing the same level of disdain against Watts that most of the football community seems to

Like I said, his good form of last year is erased in these guys minds due to 1 poor showing in a NAB cup match

Watts clearly isn't afforded the benefit of a quiet game without all the old perceptions resurfacing

Dont want any dispute with your grandad but tigers may move to tassie???

The MCG is already being diluted as our home with other clubs sharing it as home on game day

while new facilities may be fanrtastic would it have the same heritage as the melbourne park sports centre containing MCG

and should we be the club to move from AAMI if problems there???

Why in gods name would the tigers move to tassie?

Viney12, You can still have an influence and make contests, it doesn't have to be J.Brown like. What people are saying is they would prefer to see him have an impact or have urgency to get involved and impart some physicality instead of sitting out when it suits.

That in part is what Mick is saying, and it won't be the last player he has an opinion on in special comments in 2012.

As for Jack, he'll take it in board. I have no doubt Neeld will be expressing some of these thoughts to Jack one on one for the betterment of his development.

He did this, though, last year - he showed everyone he could take a contested grab, and have an effect on contests (and apply pressure in the forward line - a la his goal against Richmond where he made Houli crap his dacks)

He was poor round 1 NAB cup in torrential rain that didn't suit tall forwards and yes, he had little impact vs, collingwood and looked as though he couldn't work his way into the game

My issue with the media, commentators, supporters (Melbourne and opposition alike), is that it's like we go on rewind with Watts after a poor or quiet game

Everyone shut up during his purple patch, where he was showing hunger and desire, where he was one of our shining lights in an otherwise dimsal period. 2 rounds in to the mickey mouse stuff and all of a sudden were back to 2009 vs, Collingwood levels of criticism