torpedo

If he had a valid contract how can he have no choice?

Maybe ask Footscray that. No he doesn't. His KPF experiment at the start of the year was a complete & total failure, even Bailey conceded that in the press. All his best work has been playing a role similar to a medium forward, despite him being 190+ cm.

That is only ever an option in extremely rare circumstances, the belief that this can be done whenever the club feels like it is a complete myth. There is absolutely no incentive for a contracted player to volunteer for a demotion to the rookie list. I'd love for Mark Stevens to be right, I cannot see how the AFLPA would accept such an arrangement though.

I find it very hard to believe it is as simple as Mark Stevens has put and that and that the AFLPA accept this strategy. It is a massive demotion part way through a contract which makes you unavailable for senior selection, why would any player agree to that?

It appears the coaches rate a) very highly, based on recent selections & trades. You certainly notice it when teams are getting clean use of it out of the middle whereas around the grounds the influence seems less profound, more astute observers of ruckman may think otherwise though. You don't want the 'extra midfielder' type if they cannot ruck, then you might as well just have an extra midfielder. Ideally you want someone with more than one string to their bow. Cox dominates the hit outs as well as playing as an 'extra midfielder'. If they can provide a strong marking option its invaluable. If they can snag a goal each week you'll be very happy. I think I'd have to say a) though

Same here.

Yes, your post included it. As you said the comment was made in relation to 'him', being Valenti, in which case it makes perfect sense. You cant just take a comment made in relation to one player and then apply it to another and say haha you're wrong, thats retarded.

Perhaps waiting on final list lodgements on 13 November

OK

Fairly useless stat without TOG. What is interesting is that the Cats played Blake ahead of Mumford in the GF, even though it is a universally accepted view amongst Cats & non-Cats fans that Blake is a dud footballer. Ultimately Blake gets them first use most often so he got the gig, coaches rate that highly. I think its fairly obvious from his height that once he gets some frame on him Spencer will dominate tap outs, something which a 23 year old Mumford has been unable to do.

I am sure RR can speak for himself but the fact that one is a 23 year old, AFL-ready midfielder and the other is a 19 year old developing ruckman is a glaringly obvious difference. Incomparable. The comment makes perfect sense in regards to an AFL-ready player, Spencer is not.

ffs I'd hate to be an ex-girlfriend of yours, you'd be a lunatic. Ball owes us nothing. To come out and cry about it just makes MFC supporters look like bitter sooks so can you give it a rest, it is a poor reflection on OUR integrity, not Balls. Its a shame he does not appear interested but I believe its no great loss from an on-field perspective. I doubt Jess Smith would be interested given he is specifically leaving for better medical & fitness support, aside from our obvious lack of money our injury list in recent years has been appalling. Mitch Thorp is worth further investigation I think, if he passes the medical get him down to training and see what his attitude is like first hand.

Its missing a big man so I cannot see us lining up like that just yet. Like it or not I think Miller has to play and people may be jumping the gun a bit thinking we can get by without him or someone of similar size out there. Bate is great playing as a medium forward, dont like him as a focal point though. Good exercise.

I think the FB / CHB distinction is becoming less and less relevant, if its not redundant already, where Frawley & Warnock line-up will be determined by match-ups on a week to week basis.

Agree with above. Everyone seems to have very strong feelings on his attitude for someone who they no doubt have never meet or even seen play footy live. The kid is only 20. Lots of 20 year olds are [censored], I probably was. His body is the concern for me.

Fair enough. Its just frustrating his primary role is now where competition for spots is hottest.

Personally I think the need for KPFs is massively overstated around here. As you noted we got 2 marking forwards in last years draft, I don't think you can look at the ND and PSD in isolation, we ended up with 2 senior listed marking forwards and thats all that matters. I would say 2 out of 7 is a good amount, especially now that we already know LJ can play at AFL level. And it should also be noted that LJ currently is & looks to be 10x the player of any of those mentioned, yet if we picked on a 'needs' basis like people are requesting & went specifically for a tall forward earlier on we may never have picked him. We have players with KPF potential such as Martin, Garland & Morton who are still developing. Then we have players such as Green & Miller who have 4-5 years left in them while we develop others. We should always be picking and grooming KPPs as part of our general list management strategy, I don't want us to go picking a player ahead of their ranking specifically to play full forward though. If we keep picking the best kids and some of them have KPP potential we will end up with good players & plenty of options. I also find the versatile KPP prospects generally go onto become better players than those touted only as KPFs. Given the picks we have I would not expect us to take more than one tall in the upcoming ND. As a side note I don't know where this obsession with developing a twin towers set-up has come from. Geelong have been the dominant team of the competition for the last 3 years and they have nothing of the sorts. Hawthorn proved how useful the twin towers are without a dominant midfield & defence, they could not even make the finals. St Kilda is an example of nothing as yet & I do not rate Koschitzke's contribution at all.

Much clearer than the forward line task. No Bartram? I think you really need a Utility option for Bruce, thats been his role for a number of years. He'll be used all over the place depending on match-ups, generally defensive roles though, so I picked Defence. I don't buy into the 'too tall' thinking either, Garland & Frawley are both capable rebounders, have pace and can play small, Garland in particular. I picked Strauss as the 8th, only because getting games into him is a priority, I hope to see both he & Bennell as regular picks though. It pains me to say it but this task just reinforces my view that J-Mac should have retired, may be I under value the importance of leadership & experience out on the field though. I am still unsure on Cheney, initially I thought his 2009 in-roads dictated retention, then I thought it was perhaps neither here nor there, I'd probably still lean towards giving him another year as small defender is probably not Bennell's best role, I am not sure Cheney is a better player than Bartram though and we only need 1 player of that type, he doesn't hack it like Barts but Barts is better at checking his man. Bell is finished, like others I once held hopes of a midfield role, cant see that ever happening with the kids we'll have to play there now. Interested to see how T-Mac goes if hes retained, could be a wildcard.

Good golly, thats probably become the most important role in the modern game, that would be an absolute disaster.

I voted Miller & Watts. Bailey will want to play Watts as much as possible and Miller is our best option at CHF. I am suprised some people think Jack may play CHF next year, I don't see how that will be possible at this stage of his development, I think its more likely he'll he spend some time, if not play a regular role, on the wing while he finds his feet. Petterd kept doing enough to hold a spot in the forward line last year, I can't see where he fits in if all those players listed are available though. Maric & Jetta are interesting. I cant see them fitting in if Wonna is playing at the same level he was in 2008, thats cetainly not a given though. Jurrah does a lot of the things small forwards do also and I think that will impact on small forward selections. I am not banking on Maric to making it to be honest, I haven't been particularly impressed with his efforts to date, he is only young though and its certainly not a criticism, I just don't hold any expectations. I love Jetta's grunt and would love to see him find a place in the team, better players keep him out at the moment though. I think its likely we'll see Sylvia playing in the midfield a lot more next year given he will be coming off an even stronger fitness base in 2010. His goal kicking is one of his great strengths but I've noticed that he kicks a lot of his goals when he is playing in the midfield anyway. I'd expect to see Trengove playing forward next year while he builds his engine and from all reports he is AFL-ready, be great to see Sylvia finally graduate to a full time midfielder and Trengove cut his teeth playing his forward flank / rotating midfielder role I don't think its as simple as playing him to protect others, you need at least one big bodied marking forward as part of your forward line structure and Miller is our best option at the moment, Watts is still some time away yet. Bailey did drop him last year but I think Miller would still be very much a part of our 2010 forward line planning. I agree that he must maintain form to hold his spot, I think you measure form a bit differently with someone playing Brad's role though, even he is not playing well his presence may still be an overall benefit to the team. You often see big forwards getting games when they are out of form, or just not very good players at all, because of their influence on forward line structure. Ideally your big forwards kick goals and thats what we will try and develop over the next couple of years, I think Brad's still got an important role to play in the meantime though and he is capable of kicking goals, he was doing it in mid-late 2008. I have similar views. I queried whether he was overrated around here before the start of last season, he probably proved me wrong though, he certainly did enough as a forward to keep his spot each week, albeit in an injury ravaged side. I still doubt whether in time he will be as damaging in the forward line as other options though and if he doesn't play there where does he play? He doesnt seem creative enough with it to play as a rebounding defender, where most people had him pegged before the start of least season, he may be a clean user, not at all penetrating though. And what do you make of a Brad Johnson? No doubt he's an exception but he is successful as a full forward nonetheless. Greeny used to play as a leading forward quite a bit and was good at it, everyone agrees he's a beautiful kick and he's also a very strong pack mark. Size works both ways, many taller defenders would find it harder to match up on players his size. The only issue with his size would be forward line dynamics as a whole, he wouldn't bring your crumbers in to the game as much as a traditional pack busting full forward, thats not a definitive negative on its own though.

Sheesh, we dont need any of our kids losing 5 kilo of muscle, lets hope he can get it back quickly. We could certainly use his field kicking in our 22.

I would say pack marking is one of PJ's weaknesses. And as for pack busting, the whole problem with PJ is that he has the body to do lots of things but seems to lack the ability to use it, in particular he seems totally devoid of presence & aggression for a big man, which are generally the hallmarks of successful big forwards. PJ has been trialled at full forward several times both last season and in 2008, the fact that you haven't mentioned this highlights how much of a non-event it was. I agree with the current calls for Brad Green to be played at full forward. Massive tangent here but I think he could play on for another 4-5 years in that role which would make drafting a player able to play full forward less of a priority. All clubs need to draft key position players on an ongoing basis but I think we'd better placed from a list management point of view drafting in key position players who are versatile and capable of playing back or forward, rather than a Butcher type who seems rather one-dimensional.

Dylan Grimes does not have, and has not been reported as having, the same raps as Jack. Where your post is makes no difference to that.

Huh ? I think you've got your wires crossed there.

No idea. I don't know why they would need to approach anyone to use 'Lions' though, its not like they have exclusive use of it, there are hundreds of clubs that are the Lions. They may have just retained 'Reds' because they wanted to, history of the other club, etc.