Whispering_Jack

I haven’t seen enough of Hill but in respect to the stats of Pickett and Spargo, they’re superior to those of Hill, although not by much. The difference is that Pickett is kicking more goals and Spargo, about the same as Hill but also, the pressure they both bring to their games and their overall roles in the side are significant. They do have the advantage of being in the Melbourne system with it’s great midfield pumping the ball down, of course. Hill would appear to be more advanced than Kade Chandler but the club and the player have made their decisions so we move on. Hill’s future appears to be an issue that’s out of Melbourne’s control but let’s get some popcorn and enjoy what transpires with his proposed move to Essendon.

At this level, Taj plays a solid but unspectacular game of football, accumulating possessions without doing anything that stands out. However, I think on the basis of his year’s work as a regular in his team’s best players at Colts level for East Fremantle and in his state level appearances with WA Under 19s, that he’ll probably take the last spot on our list. The players who impressed me were Angus Sheldrick who is the type of player Goody would like and Jack Williams who has hitherto presented himself as a potential key forward but also took a lot of the ruck work in this game. I’m not sure about the relative strength of the other rucks and he’s not tall enough at 195cm to be a regular ruckman at AFL level but, if he’s around at #17, he’d be worth a long hard look for his versatility as I believe he could play key forward or back. There are others worthy of consideration for #17 as well - Jacob Van Rooyen who didn’t play would be great at that pick. SA midfielder Matt Roberts was slow off the mark but nearly won the game for them in the end. I think he’ll go top 10. And there’s a lot to like about Jase Burgoyne who is a Port Adelaide father/son prospect.

Especially when you’re chasing a Burgoyne!

I hope GWS gives Dodoro the royal treatment.

They weren’t going to take Jake at pick 3. That was the whole idea of the attempted Trengove trade to enable them to get Lever with Richmond’s pick.

On a slow news day, the Sunday Herald Sun has a story today on pages 82 & 83 (sorry firewall and can’t do the link anyway) entitled, “CLOCK IS TICKING” in which Marc McGowan and Matt Turner “run the rule over trade deals that are still cooking.” It’s refreshing to see that the reigning premiers have pretty much locked in their playing list and barely feature in the article but here’s a summary of who else, on top of the 13 players who changed clubs last week via trade or free agency, could have a fresh start in 2022. • JARROD BRANDER (WCE) told by the Eagles to explore his options. Met Carlton but the Blues aren’t interested. Category: Up for grabs. • LEVI CASBOULT (Carl) linked to Brisbane but the Lions are pursuing Darcy Fort. Category: Up for grabs. • JON CEGLAR (Haw) Hawks have encouraged him to explore his options. Geelong and Western Bulldogs appear the likely destinations if he leaves. Category: Up for grabs. • JORDAN CLARK (Geel) Wants to go to Fremantle but the Cats want an early draft selection. Category: Bit to play out. • TOM CLUREY (Port Adel) North Melbourne, Carlton and St Kilda inquired. Category: Staying put. • CHARLIE CONSTABLE (Geel) Screaming for opportunity. Category: Up for grabs. • MASON COX (Coll) The American forward is in limbo. Category: Up for grabs. • JORDAN DAWSON (Syd) Wants out to Adelaide but the clubs have not been able to agree on the picks. Category: Lock it in. • TRENT DUMONT (North Melb) His only exit route now is via a trade or as a delisted free agent. Category: Up for grabs. • DARCY FORT (Geel) Brisbane’s trade priority. Category: Bit to play out. • JACK GUNSTON (Haw) Melbourne were interested, also linked with Brisbane. Category: Bit to play out. • OLLIE HANRAHAN (Haw) Carlton, Gold Coast and Geelong are monitoring him. Category: Up for grabs. • BOBBY HILL (GWS) Wants to be traded to a Victorian club. Category: Bit to play out. • BEN KING (GC) Victorian clubs circling. Category: Back off. • PETER LADHAMS (Port Adel) Had a medical with the Swans. Category: Bit to play out. • PATRICK LIPINSKI (WB) Bulldogs and Magpies haggling. Category: Lock it in. • RORY LOBB (Frem) Lobb wants to be a Giant again. Category: Bit to play out. • BEN LONG (St K) Saints are willing to trade. Category: Up for grabs. • MAX LYNCH (Coll) Hawks loom as his landing spot. Category: Up for grabs. • DARCY MACPHERSON (GC) Once appeared to be headed to North Melbourne. Category: Don’t count on it. • TOM MITCHELL (Haw) Would be the biggest name to move clubs. Category: Don’t count on it. LACHIE NEALE (Brisbane Lions) Wanted out. Back in. Category: Staying Put • JAEGER O’MEARA (Haw) Port Adelaide considering. Category: Don’t count on it. • SAM POWELL-PEPPER (Port Adel) Was going west but looking too hard. Category: Don’t count on it. • SAM TAYLOR (GWS) Dockers interested in trade for Rory Lobb. Category: No chance. • JOSH THOMAS (Coll) Still without a contract. Category: Up for grabs. • MITCH WALLIS (WB) Not much interest and likely to re-sign. Category: Up for grabs. • JAKE WATERMAN (WCE) Rival clubs said to be interested. Category: Staying Put • CHAD WINGARD (Haw) Regularly raised in trade dispatches but he’s made it clear that he’s not leaving. Category: No chance. • TRISTAN XERRI (North Melb) Requested a trade to St Kilda midweek. Category: Bit to play out.

Ever since I was a kid in the 50s and Melbourne had a ruckman named Dick Fenton-Smith running around, I was conscious of the importance of hyphenated names in the club’s history. After all, we produced the great Ivor Warne-Smith (pictured) who won Brownlow Medals in 1926 (in a premiership team) and 1928. In 1996, the Demons created a league record of players with hyphenated names wins David and Donald Cockatoo-Collins and Tent Ormond-Allen on their list. They had that record all on their own until 2019 when the Tigers muscled in and equalled it with Callum Coleman-Jones, Riley Collier-Dawkins and Derek Eggmolesse-Smith. But now, North Melbourne are homing in on a Melbourne record for the number of players on a club list with hyphenated names. That will occur when the Roos draft Jason Horne-Francis in the November National Draft. They already have Luke Davies-Uniake and, after receiving Coleman-Jones from the Tigers, they are set to equal the record when Horne-Francis comes on board. Could someone pluck a quartet of players out there in the draft with hyphenated names to help us keep our record intact. Hat tip/Swamp on Twitter

Agreed … and the best way to listen to the recruiters is to hear what the real ones do on November 24 and November 25.

No because Gawn and Jackson play primarily in the ruck and that wasn’t Mac Andrew’s role in the game against Vic Metro. He started as a key forward and also also played key back. Kicked an early goal, hit a bit of a purple patch in the second quarter and faded badly in the last quarter and a half. The team’s main ruckman was Toby Conway and most of the ruck duels forward of centre were taken by Josh Rentsch who was playing in the forward pocket. Andrew showed a lot of spring in the few ruck duels he contested but not many went to advantage. If Max or Luke played games like that as ruckmen, we’d be scratching our heads wondering what was going on. Your assumption about him backing it up in a number of NAB Boys League games is off the mark. He played in 6 of a possible 9 games for the Stingrays and finished 13th in their b & f. As I said many times, it was important for him to persuade us of his ability/promise by performance on the big stage, in particular in the national championships and in the NAB Boys League but the lockdown prevented that from happening. Again, good luck to him but I haven’t seen the evidence with my own eyes of a top 20 draftee.

I don’t view the draft as a spectator sport and he seems like a nice bloke so I’d be quite happy for him to be selected at any stage in November. More so from Melbourne’s point of view, given my opinion that he’s not top 20, because if he does get selected in the first round, it leaves an extra potential top 20 player available for us at #17.

Never is or was. It’s about having opinions and mine is that it’s not worth spending a first rounder on a speculative tall player who, according to my observation, is likely to take several years to develop into a decent footballer (if at all).

Precisely why I’m raising it now. That and the fact that I lived through the successful era when we won lots of these 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆. The philosopher Santayana said, “those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”. It’s worth remembering for that reason.

Now that the premiership flag’s been won and the season’s over, we can discuss various topics from a new perspective. Why not start by facing one of our greatest demons - 186? The events of ten years ago that saw a coach move on and massive upheaval are now a thing of the distant past. This article looks at the players who took part in the game against Geelong at Kardinia Park that came to be known as 186. Where are they now?: Melbourne’s 22 – Round 19, 2011 What are your recollections and views on that game now that most of its “Demons” have been well and truly buried?

The irony is that in his two representative games Andrew wasn’t played primarily as a ruckman and didn’t produce numbers that would suggest that’s going to be his role any time soon. Both games are linked in this thread if anyone wants a look for themselves.

Thankfully, the Tigers and the Kangaroos saved the day by finally came to agreement over the Robbie Tarrant/Callum Coleman-Jones which I see as a win for North Melbourne. I can see them improving next year. And that’s it for the week. The doors to the trade week are now officially closed for the weekend but there’s sure to be activity going on in the back rooms. Also, the opportunity for unrestricted free agents to move to a club of their choice closed on Friday, with several players remaining unsigned and with their futures in the balance. Done Deals 14. Robbie Tarrant and a future second-round pick from North Melbourne and a third-round selection (currently No. 40 overall) at this year’s draft will go to Richmond. Callum Coleman-Jones, two third-round selections (currently No. 42 and No. 47 overall) and Richmond’s future fourth-round selection will go to North Melbourne.

You’re not listening Dazzle. It’s not that I don’t rate him at all - I’ve consistently said most of the things that the experts are saying about him ie that he has athleticism, that he has a number of good attributes and that he’s a speculative pick who will take years to develop. Unfortunately, some of these experts are lazy and like sheep salivate over his highlights reel and have hyped him up to be more than he’s actually shown himself to be. I think that position is clearer than yours since you begin by telling me that it’s “time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick” and you end by saying in your opinion you “probably still wouldn't use a pick on him” if Melbourne had a top 10 pick. You compliment Knightmare for having an opinion and sticking to it - that’s exactly what I’m doing.

Fixed

Oh … some late mail and it’s a DONE DEAL!!! * "Richmond has traded Callum Coleman-Jones, pick 42, 47 and a future fourth round pick for Robbie Tarrant, pick 40 and a future second round pick." — Cal Twomey

There’s discussion on Knightmare’s thread on bigfooty about the need for patience with Andrew. His view is that “if you're drafting him, you shouldn't expect to see him until year 4 or for him to be playing a high level of football until year 6. It takes that long with ruckmen generally, and it's hard to see it being a quick process with Andrew”. So I registered myself and asked “how on earth a club can use a top 10 draft pick for a player it shouldn’t expect to see until year 4. Is GWS the only club that has this expectation or are there others?” Knightmare’s answer was as follows - “There have been Andrew to GWS links made but I don't have any strong word on how interested other clubs are. With rucks the rule is you're drafting them for who they'll be in their mid 20s rather than who they are today, just like with key forwards it's about who they'll be in year 4. There was until Jackson was picked at 3 a concerted effort by clubs not to take ruckmen so early for this very reason. The vast majority take a really long time to come good and become competitive at AFL level.” I’m very understanding of the need for patience when dealing with big men including KPP’s but find the answer unsatisfactory. The likes of Luke Jackson are the exceptions. That’s why they get picked early. The same goes to an extent with the likes of Jamara Ugle-Hagan, Riley Tilthorpe and Luke McDonald. These guys were getting games in year one, the kpp’s were kicking goals in their early games (Tilthorpe kicked 5 on debut). You would be expecting big things from these players by the end of year 2 (Dogga was a key part of a premiership team). To put someone in their category of top 10 in the draft with a four year window of reasonable expectation doesn’t compute with me. Not for a top 10 pick - maybe at mid 20s.

Looks as if some of the “big” fish will be missing from the game. From SA, Jason Horne-Francis and Arlo Draper are two highly regarded prospects with the latter injured when the teams met on grand final day. From WA, Jye Amiss (also injured in the last game), Neil Erasmus, Jacob Van Rooyen and Matthew Johnson aren’t there. Taj Woewodin picked on the ball is promising.

Jeffrey Gibb Kennett’s cryptic call to Hawthorn members to essentially close their eyes and think of the club no matter what happens has struck a few nerves among the cognoscenti today. However, after yesterday’s busy day of news and activity, there have been no new done deals and, as the week comes to an end, there are no fish biting on Jeff’s line. Today might well go down as the day of argy bargy gone wrong - it’s not a good day for state premiers (speaking politically, not about AFL premiers). * "The haggle between Geelong and Fremantle for Jordan Clark is Pick 19 or 22. You'd think 22 should see it out and we can all move on." — Matthew Lloyd * "People expected Luke to go to a club at the bottom of the ladder and play games, but he's backed himself. He admits he has deficiencies, but he's excited to get in there and prove people wrong." — Robbie D'Orazio (Connors Sports) re Luke Dunstan * "All roads for Peter Ladhams lead to Sydney. Hickey will remain the number 1 ruck, Ladhams will be the forward-ruck, and he'll bridge the age-gap between Franklin and Logan McDonald." — Sam Edmund * "Hawthorn’s desperation to trade one of its stars for a top draft pick extends to coach Sam Mitchell ringing rival clubs himself in a bid to spark interest. Hawks getting increasingly desperate given there is so far no takers for the likes of Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard." — Sam Edmund * "Adelaide and Hawthorn may be locked in a fierce battle to move up the draft order to draft Finn Callaghan." — Matt Rendell * "I think there'd be plenty of suitors in Melbourne for him." — Steven Silvagni on Rory Lobb * "No one said to Jeff yesterday - ‘You need to put out a letter to members,’ - he just didn't need to do it. He could've just waited until the close of the trade period, but that's the way that Jeff Kennett operates." — Damian Barrett commenting on you guessed it.

We've become a serious football club.

The news of the day from Melbourne’s perspective was not its involvement in trades but rather, the re-signing of a raft of players including Kade Chandler who was being courted by the Crows. The seven players include senior listers Oskar Baker and Toby Bedford and rookies Mitch Brown, Chandler, Majak Daw, Deakyn Smith and Daniel Turner. This leaves the club with three players left uncontracted - Michael Hibberd, Marty Hore and rookie Kye Declase although it has been reported that Hibberd has been offered a one year deal. It’s looking very much like there’s not much room left for more than 2 or 3 newcomers at the draft. Done Deals 9. Collingwood trade their round two selection (22) to Fremantle for their round two selection (27) and a future third-round pick. 10. Fremantle trade a future second-round pick and future fourth-round pick to Gold Coast for Will Brodie, a second-round pick (19) and two picks from round four (61, 69). 11. Fremantle trade Adam Cerra to Carlton for pick six and a future third-round pick. 12. Tim O’Brien (Hawthorn) joins the Western Bulldogs as an unrestricted free agent. 13. In a three-way trade, the Western Bulldogs traded Lewis Young to Carlton. Carlton traded Sam Petrevski-Seton to the West Coast Eagles. The West Coast Eagles traded their round three selection (52) to the Western Bulldogs.

It’s looking like at least one of Hore and Declase will be delisted before the draft. Most likely both.