Whispering_Jack

I don’t view the draft as a spectator sport and he seems like a nice bloke so I’d be quite happy for him to be selected at any stage in November. More so from Melbourne’s point of view, given my opinion that he’s not top 20, because if he does get selected in the first round, it leaves an extra potential top 20 player available for us at #17.

Never is or was. It’s about having opinions and mine is that it’s not worth spending a first rounder on a speculative tall player who, according to my observation, is likely to take several years to develop into a decent footballer (if at all).

Precisely why I’m raising it now. That and the fact that I lived through the successful era when we won lots of these 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆. The philosopher Santayana said, “those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”. It’s worth remembering for that reason.

Now that the premiership flag’s been won and the season’s over, we can discuss various topics from a new perspective. Why not start by facing one of our greatest demons - 186? The events of ten years ago that saw a coach move on and massive upheaval are now a thing of the distant past. This article looks at the players who took part in the game against Geelong at Kardinia Park that came to be known as 186. Where are they now?: Melbourne’s 22 – Round 19, 2011 What are your recollections and views on that game now that most of its “Demons” have been well and truly buried?

The irony is that in his two representative games Andrew wasn’t played primarily as a ruckman and didn’t produce numbers that would suggest that’s going to be his role any time soon. Both games are linked in this thread if anyone wants a look for themselves.

Thankfully, the Tigers and the Kangaroos saved the day by finally came to agreement over the Robbie Tarrant/Callum Coleman-Jones which I see as a win for North Melbourne. I can see them improving next year. And that’s it for the week. The doors to the trade week are now officially closed for the weekend but there’s sure to be activity going on in the back rooms. Also, the opportunity for unrestricted free agents to move to a club of their choice closed on Friday, with several players remaining unsigned and with their futures in the balance. Done Deals 14. Robbie Tarrant and a future second-round pick from North Melbourne and a third-round selection (currently No. 40 overall) at this year’s draft will go to Richmond. Callum Coleman-Jones, two third-round selections (currently No. 42 and No. 47 overall) and Richmond’s future fourth-round selection will go to North Melbourne.

You’re not listening Dazzle. It’s not that I don’t rate him at all - I’ve consistently said most of the things that the experts are saying about him ie that he has athleticism, that he has a number of good attributes and that he’s a speculative pick who will take years to develop. Unfortunately, some of these experts are lazy and like sheep salivate over his highlights reel and have hyped him up to be more than he’s actually shown himself to be. I think that position is clearer than yours since you begin by telling me that it’s “time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick” and you end by saying in your opinion you “probably still wouldn't use a pick on him” if Melbourne had a top 10 pick. You compliment Knightmare for having an opinion and sticking to it - that’s exactly what I’m doing.

Fixed

Oh … some late mail and it’s a DONE DEAL!!! * "Richmond has traded Callum Coleman-Jones, pick 42, 47 and a future fourth round pick for Robbie Tarrant, pick 40 and a future second round pick." — Cal Twomey

There’s discussion on Knightmare’s thread on bigfooty about the need for patience with Andrew. His view is that “if you're drafting him, you shouldn't expect to see him until year 4 or for him to be playing a high level of football until year 6. It takes that long with ruckmen generally, and it's hard to see it being a quick process with Andrew”. So I registered myself and asked “how on earth a club can use a top 10 draft pick for a player it shouldn’t expect to see until year 4. Is GWS the only club that has this expectation or are there others?” Knightmare’s answer was as follows - “There have been Andrew to GWS links made but I don't have any strong word on how interested other clubs are. With rucks the rule is you're drafting them for who they'll be in their mid 20s rather than who they are today, just like with key forwards it's about who they'll be in year 4. There was until Jackson was picked at 3 a concerted effort by clubs not to take ruckmen so early for this very reason. The vast majority take a really long time to come good and become competitive at AFL level.” I’m very understanding of the need for patience when dealing with big men including KPP’s but find the answer unsatisfactory. The likes of Luke Jackson are the exceptions. That’s why they get picked early. The same goes to an extent with the likes of Jamara Ugle-Hagan, Riley Tilthorpe and Luke McDonald. These guys were getting games in year one, the kpp’s were kicking goals in their early games (Tilthorpe kicked 5 on debut). You would be expecting big things from these players by the end of year 2 (Dogga was a key part of a premiership team). To put someone in their category of top 10 in the draft with a four year window of reasonable expectation doesn’t compute with me. Not for a top 10 pick - maybe at mid 20s.

Looks as if some of the “big” fish will be missing from the game. From SA, Jason Horne-Francis and Arlo Draper are two highly regarded prospects with the latter injured when the teams met on grand final day. From WA, Jye Amiss (also injured in the last game), Neil Erasmus, Jacob Van Rooyen and Matthew Johnson aren’t there. Taj Woewodin picked on the ball is promising.

Jeffrey Gibb Kennett’s cryptic call to Hawthorn members to essentially close their eyes and think of the club no matter what happens has struck a few nerves among the cognoscenti today. However, after yesterday’s busy day of news and activity, there have been no new done deals and, as the week comes to an end, there are no fish biting on Jeff’s line. Today might well go down as the day of argy bargy gone wrong - it’s not a good day for state premiers (speaking politically, not about AFL premiers). * "The haggle between Geelong and Fremantle for Jordan Clark is Pick 19 or 22. You'd think 22 should see it out and we can all move on." — Matthew Lloyd * "People expected Luke to go to a club at the bottom of the ladder and play games, but he's backed himself. He admits he has deficiencies, but he's excited to get in there and prove people wrong." — Robbie D'Orazio (Connors Sports) re Luke Dunstan * "All roads for Peter Ladhams lead to Sydney. Hickey will remain the number 1 ruck, Ladhams will be the forward-ruck, and he'll bridge the age-gap between Franklin and Logan McDonald." — Sam Edmund * "Hawthorn’s desperation to trade one of its stars for a top draft pick extends to coach Sam Mitchell ringing rival clubs himself in a bid to spark interest. Hawks getting increasingly desperate given there is so far no takers for the likes of Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard." — Sam Edmund * "Adelaide and Hawthorn may be locked in a fierce battle to move up the draft order to draft Finn Callaghan." — Matt Rendell * "I think there'd be plenty of suitors in Melbourne for him." — Steven Silvagni on Rory Lobb * "No one said to Jeff yesterday - ‘You need to put out a letter to members,’ - he just didn't need to do it. He could've just waited until the close of the trade period, but that's the way that Jeff Kennett operates." — Damian Barrett commenting on you guessed it.

We've become a serious football club.

The news of the day from Melbourne’s perspective was not its involvement in trades but rather, the re-signing of a raft of players including Kade Chandler who was being courted by the Crows. The seven players include senior listers Oskar Baker and Toby Bedford and rookies Mitch Brown, Chandler, Majak Daw, Deakyn Smith and Daniel Turner. This leaves the club with three players left uncontracted - Michael Hibberd, Marty Hore and rookie Kye Declase although it has been reported that Hibberd has been offered a one year deal. It’s looking very much like there’s not much room left for more than 2 or 3 newcomers at the draft. Done Deals 9. Collingwood trade their round two selection (22) to Fremantle for their round two selection (27) and a future third-round pick. 10. Fremantle trade a future second-round pick and future fourth-round pick to Gold Coast for Will Brodie, a second-round pick (19) and two picks from round four (61, 69). 11. Fremantle trade Adam Cerra to Carlton for pick six and a future third-round pick. 12. Tim O’Brien (Hawthorn) joins the Western Bulldogs as an unrestricted free agent. 13. In a three-way trade, the Western Bulldogs traded Lewis Young to Carlton. Carlton traded Sam Petrevski-Seton to the West Coast Eagles. The West Coast Eagles traded their round three selection (52) to the Western Bulldogs.

It’s looking like at least one of Hore and Declase will be delisted before the draft. Most likely both.

Lots happening although the effect appears to me to be underwhelming. This is because we’re not seeing any big names changing clubs, presumably because of the effect that loss of revenue as a result of Covid19 is forcing clubs to rein in their spending. Carlton continues to be the most active club in terms of players coming in with Adam Cerra the biggest name to change clubs (although do I need to point out that he only polled 1 Brownlow vote this year while a certain midfielder with initials LD who polled 11 votes from 12 games is also in the group of players with new homes). * "Richmond have seven picks under 47, they're in an interesting phase. Do they go again or build for the future? With Tarrant coming in, I think they do a bit of both." — Matthew Lloyd * "Will Brodie was a dominant junior who hasn't been able to go on with it. I'm really pleased for him, it's a lifeline I wasn't sure he'd get. " — Lloyd re Brodie's likely move to Fremantle * DONE DEAL The Dockers send future second and fourth round picks to the Suns for Will Brodie, 19, 61 and 69. * BREAKING | Adam Cerra is a Blue! Fremantle receives pick six and a future third round pick. * DONE DEALS | Carlton has traded Sam Petrevski-Seton to West Coast for pick 52. That pick was then on-traded to the Western Bulldogs for Lewis Young — per multiple reports. * Collingwood set to move on its pick 22. The Pies set to do a deal with Fremantle for pick 27 and a future third-rounder. That looms as a circuit-breaker for the Jordan Clark discussions — Callum Twomey * BREAKING: "There is a lot going on between the Fremantle footy club and the GWS footy club, over a player well known to both of those clubs, that player being Rory Lobb about a potential return to the Giants." — Damian Barrett

I can’t see from the update here where Michael Hibberd has re-signed.

There’s an article about vanders in today’s Herald Sun. It seems likely that he will eventually find a home as a delisted free agent so, as to be expected, no compo for the Demons.

Luke Dunstan this morning on SEN Breakfast "The chatter will probably be 'you're not going to get a game, you'll be in the twos' but I'm going to back myself in. "Speaking to Goody, he really focused on my strengths... and I'm excited to be a part of a happy group that are playing good footy and winning games."

This hasn’t aged well, has it?

Current state of play:

With a week to go in this trade period, it’s clear that there’s scope for plenty more deals even though so much is moving at snail’s pace. Who would have thought that Melbourne could have found a well-credentialed depth player who cost it nothing and then took a place in the first round of the national draft? On top of that, you would think that there’s still the possibility of more movement whether it be on the player front or in terms of draft picks. The extent of that action is partly tied up with its out of contract players. As of a couple of days ago, they were believed to be Oskar Baker, Toby Bedford, Majak Daw ® (UFA), Kade Chandler ®, Kye Declase ®, Michael Hibberd, Marty Hore, Deakyn Smith ® and Daniel Turner ®. The word is that Baker, Bedford, Daw and Hibberd will/have been offered contact extensions and now, Chandler is in discussions with the Crows. I would expect at least one if not both of our mid season draft picks to have their terms extended - they hardly had the opportunity to show their wares in the truncated VFL season (in fact, they each played only 4 matches with Casey) and they deserve more. However, the extent to which Melbourne can trade players in will depend partly on whether it leaves some players out. The ultimate size of the list is finite. Still, the club’s recruiters and list managers have shown themselves to be resourceful so we have another week of following their moves (in between viewing replays of our finals achievements). Done Deals 1. Essendon signed unrestricted free agent Jake Kelly (Adelaide Crows) on Friday, October 1. Based on the player’s age and the contract offer, the AFL advised the Adelaide Crows the club would be eligible for a round three compensation selection, which would be number 44 on the current provisional draft selection order. 2. The Gold Coast Suns signed unrestricted free agent Mabior Chol (Richmond) on Friday, October 1. Based on the player’s age and the contract offer, the AFL advised Richmond the club would be eligible for an end of round two compensation selection, which would be number 38 on the current provisional draft selection order. 3. Carlton made an offer to restricted free agent George Hewett (Sydney) on Friday, October 1. The Sydney Swans elected not to match the offer the following day and Hewett is able to join Carlton immediately. Based on the player’s age and the contract offer, the AFL advised the Sydney Swans the club would be eligible for an end of round two compensation selection, which would be number 39 on the current provisional draft selection order. 4. Collingwood trade their future round two selection, future round three selection and future round four selection to the Gold Coast Suns for their round two (22), round three (46), round three (58), round five (79) and future round four selection. 5. Collingwood trade their round three selection (41) to Geelong for Nathan Kreuger and their round three selection (55). 6. Port Adelaide trade their future third-round pick to the Giants for Jeremy Finlayson. 7. Melbourne signed unrestricted free agent Luke Dunstan (St Kilda) on Wednesday October 6. 8. In a four-way trade, Melbourne trade their round three selection (45) to the Western Bulldogs for their first-round pick (17), St Kilda trade their round three selection (49) to Melbourne. The Adelaide Crows trade their round two selection (37) to Melbourne for a second-round pick (33) and a future first-rounder. The Adelaide Crows trade their round four selections (62, 66) and a future round four selection to St Kilda. The Adelaide Crows trade their round two selection (23) and round three selection (44) to the Western Bulldogs for a fourth-round pick (75).

What a day it’s been!!! In the space of 24 hours, Melbourne has turned the draft period on its head coming out of nowhere and landing player who some regard having limitations with his disposal but polled an average of close enough to one Brownlow vote per game and improving its draft hand in another deal. The day’s done deals:- • St Kilda midfielder Luke Dunstan has exercised his rights as an unrestricted free agent and joined Melbourne. Compensation for the Saints will depend on the details of Dunstan's contract with the Demons, which is believed to be a two-year deal. • Greater Western Sydney forward Jeremy Finlayson has been traded to Port Adelaide in exchange for the Power's future third-round selection. • A four-club trade involving Adelaide, Melbourne, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs took place whereby the Demons re-enter the first round of the Draft, while the Bulldogs stock up on draft points to land father-son prospect Sam Darcy. The details - The Crows will get the Demons' 2022 first-round selection and also gain picks 33 and 75. They will hand over picks 23, 37, 44, 62, 66 and a future fourth-round pick. The Saints pick up selection 49 in exchange for picks 62, 66 and the Crows' future fourth-round pick. The Bulldogs will part with picks 17 and 75 in order to attain picks 23, 44 and 45 while the Demons receive picks 17, 37 and 49 in exchange for their future first-round pick and Picks 33 and 45. Other trade news:- The Western Bulldogs are set to sign high-flying utility Tim O'Brien from Hawthorn. Demons’ small forward Kade Chandler is reportedly in talks with the Adelaide Crows after the two parties met last week. Geelong have confirmed their interest in delisted Crows forward Tyson Stengle this off-season, with the Cats among several potential suitors for the Woodville-West Torrens forward. Completed deals during trade period 1. Jake Kelly (Adelaide) joined Essendon as an unrestricted free agent. Adelaide received pick 42 (AFL) as compensation. 2. Mabior Chol (Richmond) joined Gold Coast as an unrestricted free agent. Richmond received pick 38 (AFL) as compensation. 3. George Hewett (Sydney) joined Carlton as a restricted free agent. Sydney received pick 39 (AFL) as compensation. 4. Collingwood traded a future second-round pick, a future third-round pick and a future fourth-round pick to Gold Coast in exchange for picks 22, 46, 58, 79 and a future fourth-round pick. 5. Geelong traded Nathan Kreuger and pick 55 to Collingwood in exchange for pick 41. 6. GWS’s Jeremy Finlayson joined Port Adelaide in exchange for a future third-round draft pick. 7. Luke Dunstan (St Kilda) joins Melbourne as an unrestricted free agent. 8. Four-way pick swap. Details: • Melbourne trade pick 45 to the Bulldogs for pick 17. • St Kilda send 49 to Melbourne. • Adelaide send 37 to Melbourne for 33 and a future first-rounder. • Adelaide send 62, 66 and a future fourth-rounder to St Kilda. • Adelaide send pick 23 and 44 to the Bulldogs for 75.

Doubt that there’s any logic in chasing pick 17 to get a Mac Andrew in this draft. Let me reiterate that it’s no reflection on him as a player but my assessment is that he’s one of a number who would fit in the mid-20s in this draft. From where he’s come since the start of 2021 that would be flattering but he’s been heavily hyped to the point where some people who consider themselves to be good judges are even putting him in top five contention. If that’s based on information dropped by someone on an AFL club’s recruiting staff, then good luck to him. My own assessment is that he sits around pick 25. If someone bids at that range I would be happy to see us match the bid. If he comes to Melbourne it would be terrific for him to learn the ropes as an understudy to Max Gawn, Luke Jackson and Majak Daw. It would be a great environment for him to learn the trade. From my observations, I wouldn’t use pick 17 to secure him because there are others who will fall within that range who can play midfield or in key positions and who are far more developed as footballers, some of who will be right to go in season 1.