old55

Hawthorn have got a lot of marking forward options - Franklin, Roughead, Williams, Boyle, Thorp, Dowler ... Little is a long way back in the pecking order, he might be worth considering - I don't know enough about him. We've got Robbo, Sylvia and Hughes as under-sized forward marking options already, maybe we think that's enough? But Robbo is in his last years, we hope Sylvia can move to the midfield and is Hughes better than Little?

Correct. Sydney filled it in and took the opera house bite out.

I think the Vee is Melbourne, since the Swans took the Opera House bite out of their's we're the only ones with it. It's prominent in the new logo and it's being emphasised in the "M". I think the clash strip should be based on the Vee - just reverse the colours and play with red shorts, you can even go navy blue socks if you like - that wont clash with Essendon or Carlton.

I'm sure Mike Fitzpatrick will deal with Richard Pratt's suitability to be Carlton president in a fair and just manner.

The only way I could see them passing on Kruezer is if they picked up Josh Fraser in the PSD. Morton's parents probably want to come over here to look after their boys - they know Cale will be well looked after at the mighty Eagles and don't have to worry about him.

Have you had a look at Richmond's list lately? The have only 10 players > 190cm. Their rucks are no-one, Simmonds and no-one. If Kruezer gets past Carlton he gets off at Richmond station and goes straight to Punt Road Oval.

No worries - good on you for going the distance. I'm with you all the way where I hope we can pick up a KPP star this year or as soon as possible. FWIW I'm still pretty hopeful that Newton, Bate (fullback anyone?) and Frawley can be at least very good players and Rivers a star. I definitely think CAC has been improving his hit rate. Another KPF is my preference - unlike most I'm not worried about our KPBs.

Kudos to you for going through the records and doing the hard yards - like I said there's very few good KPPs we've missed. Of your fabulous 4 - a certifiable nutcase, a great player, someone who has had one good year and a rookie that everyone missed on a number of picks. Sorry if I'm unexcited about Nathan Thompson, Luke Penny and Toby Thurstans. I think you're confused about what is a KPP - 17 of yours are ruckmen. By the way Kade Simpson is 182cm and Jarrad Waite is F/S. .

I've been unimpressed with Miller's footballing ability but he has youth, size and the right attitude and most importantly Dean Bailey thinks he can do something with him. I'm prepared to wait and see. Sydney traded 44 for Playfair so that's probably what was on offer for Miller - it's not a huge price to pay to find out.

OK, look forward to it! I've seen the analysis done before by Fan and there was precious little there but I'm always willing to look at a fresh take - hope you've got more than 2001 up your sleeve, no-one denies it was a stinker.

Just as I thought I had read elsewhere! Freak, your 25 vs 13 argument is looking pretty sick.

The problem is you've offered your opinion claiming "I would say I would be as knowledgable about the factual history of trading and drafting as anyone else on this site, and I use these facts to form opinions." without delivering on the factual history.

Look that's twice you've made that claim - let's see the figures that actually back it up.

How about actually providing some analysis of drafting at those clubs relative to MFC's rather than just generalising with bald statements - who knows - you might have a point. Why should someone else do the hard yards for you yet again? It's your MI. Your superficial approach has been exposed at least twice in this thread already when you claimed: - 98 and 00 were poor years without actually examining what picks we had and who else we might have selected - comparing Hine with CAC on the basis of his performance in 05 and 06, years you said were too early to rate for CAC

Caroline Wilson: That sounds like sanctions to me.

Indeed. Look I'm more concerned about the way he played when he came back from injury. That trying to break every tackle [censored] looked like he believed his own publicity.

2007 was an extremely disappointing year from McLean all round.

Look I just don't think there's much to be gained by bald statements without doing the research - at least you've given it a go. As Brocky says - Hansen and Waite but wait Waite was father-son .. that makes one so far. No Warren I'm talking about the facts behind your opinions, there was very little behind Lamb in the 98 draft and our next selction was 60. Scott Thompson was a good selection in 2001 whichever way you want to slice it (Are you seriously advocating that we should never take a non-Victorian?) and our next selection was 62. The facts don't hang CAC in those years. No I don't always agree with those posters, in fact quite often the opposite, but I respect their knowledge and research over a long period.

Again for you Jarka, a little homework - find the good KPPs taken after CAC's picks. A blind butcher can count them on one hand. We are a relatively poor club with many deficits compared with other clubs - we've got to make every post a winner. I think CAC is one big winner for us. Now with the new development coaching structure in place to take advantage of his selctions I think we could see a big improvement.

That's fine if you get them right. Your analysis of the 2000 draft didn't support this statement. You were wrong about that year - Thompson was a very good selection at 16 and draft penalties ruined our chance after that - it's a pretty fundamental error. Similar for 1998, Lamb was an ordinary pick but there wasn't much after him and our next pick was at 60. You're attributing Holland and Read to CAC but the coach's hands are all over trades and the PSD. Your dismissal of post 2003 years in MFC analysis but support for Hine based on those years is flawed logic. The heavy hitters of draft analysis on this site are Fan, Hannabal and goodoil etc - keep working on your swing ... Yes CAC hasn't selected a big star yet (depending on how McLean develops under Bailey and co), but apart from 2001 which was a shocking year and had the coach's fingerprints all over it with Molan, there haven't been too many stars taken after his picks. You will find a few ...

boom ... tish!

I thought Daniher wrecked his career by mis-using him like he mis-used Miller You know there's a grain of truth in every misconception ...

An accurate analysis there Hannabal, CAC's only bad year was 2001, WD agrees that 2000 was wrecked by draft penalties. Was 1998 bad? CAC had Lamb at 13 and his next pick was at 60 - it's hard to make good picks when you don't have any. I agree with you that last few years CAC has shown refinement of the art, I'm excited going into this draft with him selecting at 4, 14 and 21.

You make an interesting point Rumpole - to be consistent Carlton need to be cautioned first before being penalised. But it's difficult to see how Pratt can remain as President without bringing the AFL into disrepute.

A player who hasn't featured in the top 10 of our B&F for the past two years - that mus be some new definition of "best" which I am unfamiliar with ...