Grr-owl
-
Posts
808 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Posts posted by Grr-owl
-
-
19 minutes ago, dieter said:
I beg to differ that it doesn't mean their work is biased or wrong: they are the mouthpiece of the organisations which feed their brain cells, which pay their wage.
We have this thing called science. It includes techniques to guard against bias. If you want to pick on the research, then come up with some evidence that it is wrong. Argue against it, for sure. That is your right. But gimme evidence.
Debate is good and constructive.
-
1
-
-
18 hours ago, dieter said:
Most of those who flee - like Solzhenitsyn - agree that we are way worse than them because we pretend we are free and democratic. Mister Gulag actually returned to Russia cleansed of his illusion that we had a better system.
I'll check this out.
Though as you argue elsewhere that Russia is the West, perhaps what Solzhenitsyn really did was document how awful life was in the West, went to the West, then returned to the West cleaned of his illusion that the West was better.
???
To argue that life in the USSR was better than life in the West during an equivalent period is just a fantasy.
In any case, as long as nobody tells me what I can write or draw or read or watch, I'll argue that life in the West is better than elsewhere, even given the litany of atrocities.
-
1
-
-
17 hours ago, dieter said:
The West is 'Christian', and all of its catalogue of atrocities, Christian Russia included. Where's your sense of history, man?
In reality.
The West is pluralistic. Descended primarily from Protestantism, with a slug of Catholicism remaining, but with a big chunk of secularism driving it, and that's the most important bit if the discussion is about colonialism, capitalism, freedom of expression and what not. Russia is not Western in any sense.
-
4 hours ago, dieter said:
Regarding the 'Mind your Tongue' article, please keep this in mind about the Australian Strategic Policy Institute:
Funding[edit]
ASPI was established by the Australian Government in 2001 as a company limited by guarantee under the 2001 Corporations Act.[5] ASPI receives partial funding from the Department of Defence "with other sources of revenue including sponsorship, commissioned tasks, a membership scheme, sale of publications, advertising and event registration fees".[6]
The share of ASPI's funding provided by the Department of Defence decreased from 100 per cent in the 2000-01 financial year to 43 per cent in the 2018-19 financial year. Other government entities are the next-largest source of funding, and it receives funding from a large number of private companies for specific areas of analysis or individual reports. ASPI also accepts sponsorship from companies. ASPI's 2018-19 annual report stated that it received some funding from the Embassy of Japan and Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Australia, as well as from state governments and defence companies, such as Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman, Thales Group, and Raytheon Technologies.[7][8]
It is also funded by the Australian and foreign governments such as the United States State Department as well as by military contractors.[9][8]
Reception[edit]
ASPI has been described[by whom?] as one Australia's most influential national security policy think tanks.[11] Its work has been described as impressive by the Australian Financial Review[8] and groundbreaking by the Australian National Review.[12]
The institute has drawn praise and criticism from serving and former Australian politicians. In February 2020, the ASPI was criticised by Senator Kim Carr for taking funding from the United States Department of State to track Chinese research collaborations with Australian universities. Former foreign minister Bob Carr said it had a "one-sided, pro-American view of the world".[8] It[who?] also said that the institute had many supporters in the Australian parliament.[8] ASPI responded by saying that it "doesn’t have an editorial line on China, but we have a very clear method for how we go about our research".[13][14]
In October 2018, the Australian Digital Transformation Agency criticised an ASPI report on the Australian Government's digital identity program. The Agency stated that the report "was inaccurate and contained many factual errors", which "demonstrate a clear misunderstanding of how the digital identity system is intended to work".[11] The author of the report responded to the criticism, saying his concerns were acknowledged in private despite being publicly rejected by the agency.[15][clarification needed]
I
No problems. Well aware of these. Doesn't mean their wok is biased or wrong; simply means you need to take into account their characteristics as an organization, as is advisable in every instance when it comes to media.
Skepticism is good. Cynicism is not, and neither is prejudice. Judge things on their merits.
-
1
-
-
In case anyone is interested in some issues relevant to this discussion, here's a couple of links to carefully composed and constructed articles:
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/cyber-enabled-foreign-interference-elections-and-referendums
-
2 hours ago, dieter said:
because he came and conquered via the East and because he was Greek, Alexander he is revered as 'Alexander The Great.' ( Some people also revere Napoleon, for that matter.)
Depends where you go. Where I am he is referred to as 'the horned one,' as in the devil incarnate. Apparently he had horns on his forehead.
2 hours ago, dieter said:you try to overlook it and almost justify
Absolutely not. But for me it is not a dealbreaker. The crushing of freedom of expression would be a dealbreaker.
2 hours ago, dieter said:How often do you hear about this? How often do you hear about the real death toll on the Indian Sub Continent under British rule, of the death toll of the Chinese during the so-called Opium wars. And if you want to bring up The Red Guards, do you want to talk about the US torture camps in Iraq and Guantanamo?
Constantly. Often. And, yes.
2 hours ago, dieter said:nd, by the way, Russia has always been a so-called Christian country. Lenin and Co sent it underground for a few years, but the Orthodox Church is still big in Russia.
Not the point I was arguing against. Russia is not the West. In fact, any Orthodox dominated country is not the West. The division between Catholic and Orthodox is profound. The division between Orthodox and Protestant, even more so. In any case, Russia is not culturally European, though a part of it is in Europe. The Russ are an ancient Slavic tribe from Ukraine that spread far and wide, conquering and slaughtering as they went, and still go....
The point I am trying to make is the the crimes of the Rest are just as bad as the crimes of the West. But we have at least one saving grace that makes our societies better. Freedom of expression is the mechanism by which we acknowledge our mistakes and try to correct for the future.
Ever wonder why so many emmigrants want to go to the West? If life is so much better where they come from, why would they bother.
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:
Wrecker, I think that (unlike P2J) you are very genuine in your beliefs about this and data in the US has shown that there are many people in your position too, especially on the Republican side. However, I think that many of the facts that you've been bringing up are incorrect, which is skewing things. For instance, the quoted statement is not true. There has been no evidence (even through the many legal cases) presented that scrutineers were not allowed in to check votes. The legal fight on the night was about how far they could stand from the votes.
The 'blue shift' depended entirely on when mail in votes were counted. Some states (like Ohio) counted them first, leading to it appearing that the Democrats were winning, but as the in person voting occurred (which skewed Republican) it showed that the Republicans were going to carry the state comfortably. The opposite happened in states that counted votes the other way around (most states), such as Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia etc. That isn't an indication that there's fraud, it's just the way the elections normally work .... but COVID meant that many more people voted by mail that had previously.
Like I said before, it's simply too hard to rig enough elections in the US to change the result. The voting systems of states are just too stupid and convoluted to make it work!! There are ways to rig the election (voter suppression, gerrymandering, electoral college) in the US because they have a terrible democratic system, but their presidential election is really difficult to rig in the ways the GOP are claiming.
Also, the votes from the cities tend be counted later. Country votes Republican. City votes Democrat... largely.
-
2
-
-
2 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:
I include Russia as a 'western' so-called Christian country.
I believe this is a category error.
-
Just now, Grr-owl said:
That it stopped the war is a lie.
This issue is covered in the material I pointed you to.
-
6 hours ago, dieter said:
Genghis and his type learned their trade from Alexander the so-called Great.
I include Russia as a 'western' so-called Christian country.
I have studied the A Bomb issue at length. It ranks with the most cowardly, atrocities in history. That it stopped the war is a lie.
That we are so smug about being able to propose the most preposterous nonsense points not to how 'free' we are, rather, it points to how we delude ourselves by saying, How free are we! It doesn't seem to bother you that a millimetre behind this veneer of freedom - why, in the USA I am free to own as many guns as I like - are the war machines which have encircle the globe, the war machines which point the finger constantly and declare, How virtuous am I. There are no mirrors in their universe, it is always 'the other' who is at fault.
No, I don't agree at all. We constantly and continually criticize ourselves in books, film, TV, art. For every claim of virtue, there is an acknowledgment of sin. How else would we get demonstrations in the street against the invasion of Iraq, and every other social evil?
I'll give you an example from my life, again. A couple of years ago, every single citizen of that country beginning with the 17th letter of the alphabet was kicked out of the country I live in. Was there any protest against this racism? Did people march? Did people protest in print media? Did people even comment on social media?
Like f$@k they did. They would have been murdered.
So when you write this: "It doesn't seem to bother you that..." it sticks in my gut, because it does bother me. It bothers me a lot.
People here deserve the same freedoms that Westerners have, but they don't get them, Deiter. I will point it out again: they would be murdered if they even commented.
I might as well say to you it doesn't seem to bother you that other civilizations do exactly the same thing but you give them a free ride. In other words, you don't hold others to the same standard that you hold the West. You write, "There are no mirrors in their universe, it is always 'the other' who is at fault," but for you it is The West who is always at fault. You also wrote, "Genghis and his type learned their trade from Alexander the so-called Great" as if Genghis is not responsible for his own behavior, as if he needed a Westerner to teach him, as if 'others' don't have any of their own agency, as if Westerners are always pushing everybody else around and forcing them to do bad things against their own will.....as if they are puppets.
There is in your ideas an underlying assumption that somehow Westerners are responsible for their own behavior and for everyone else's too. It is bollocks. It is fundamentally racist: "Only Westerners do bad things. Anyone who isn't a Westerner who does a bad thing is not responsible because no doubt a Westerner made them do it. Non-westerners are just poor inferior others who can't make their own decisions."
Bollocks.
See if this one fits your idea: It was the West's fault that during the cultural revolution when Red Guards identified a female counterrevolutionary, they would pass a steel hook into their [censored], through the intestinal wall and out their anus, then drag them naked through the streets to their execution.
That bothers me. Does it bother you?
-
2
-
-
6 hours ago, dieter said:
I'm including all of the 'Colonial' Escapades of the West. Um, tally up the victims of their weapons of mass destruction before we even reached the end of the 19th Century. Then we had two -so-called World wars indulged in mainly by Western/'Christian' powers when weapons of mass destruction reigned.
The we had the unnecessary use of Atomic bombs in Japan- once again, the WEST.
Since then, the US has made horrific war in Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Granada, Somalia, it raped Libya, attempted to rape Syria, destroyed Iraq by using one of the biggest lies in history, and is still raping Afghanistan. If Netanyahu had his way, it would have raped Iran by now as well.
Between you and me, Grr-owl, I don' t trust the so-called West. It lies, time, and time, and time again. For example, you are no doubt aware of the pretext for invading Afghanistan, aren't you? Come on, you remember, it was to capture Bin Laden...
Now, give me, please the tally of deaths caused by the ones you claim can't be trusted with weapons of Mass Destruction?
By the way, have you ever experienced the horror of War? Has anyone ever bombed your town or your city?
No, I haven't experienced war. Except when someone disagrees with me on Demonland....
Perhaps you aren't aware of the histories of other civilizations because you can't or don't care to read Chinese or Russian or Farsi or Hindi or Urdu or Arabic or Japanese or whatever the Mughals spoke or the Mongols or the Ching or the Aztecs or the Khmer or the Han or the Qin or the Tang or the Ming or the Yuan or the Ottomans or the Romans or the Greeks or the Vikings or Soong or the..... there's a very long list. How could anyone possibly tally up all the deaths?
I do know that the number of dead in the last 70 years of rule by the CCP is pretty similar to the total of deaths in WWI and II combined. They got nukes. How many did Stalin murder? Read the Gulag Archipelago and tell me life was better in the USSR. As for Afghanistan, the Russians invaded in 1979. The had already invaded or at least backed the oppressive regimes of the Eastern block. They got nukes. How quickly we forget.
In any case, only in the West is there a free media over many generations that allows us approach historical events from a variety of points of view in English. We can compare official points of view with unofficial points of view. We can make all kinds of tv shows and films and stuff. You think the CCP allows people to write an accurate or critical history of China? Each successive Chinese regime rewrites history to suit itself. Unless you read Chinese, you'd have to read it in English to get the truth. Ironic that the culture you decry is the only one that allows open and unfettered examination and criticism of itself, such as you display above.
Yes, the West lies, but it also tells the truth. There's nothing our government can do to stop us from telling it. That's why it is so good.
If I was to say any one of your criticisms of the West about the govt where I live, I would be imprisoned, possibly tortured, and certainly deported. Freedom of expression is the greatest thing. One of our best characteristics. If you don't appreciate it, fair enough, but I do because while I haven't been bombed, I have been and am gagged.
If I was to merely mention in public, or on social media etc, a country beginning with the seventeenth letter of the alphabet in public I would risk jail and deportation. Until recently, another country, the one beginning with the ninth letter of the alphabet, one which you freely type without a second thought (I assume), was in the same boat. My wife is a librarian; she is required to erase that county's existence from maps and books in her library. She uses a marker or white out. People from the govt come regularly to check, as they check for other banned forms of expression -- pictures of greek statues, for instance.
The rationale for the use of the bomb against the Japanese is fairly rock-solid. Although, I would argue that they could have dropped them off-shore and asked the Japanese to take a look and when the waves subsided, see if they really wanted to go on... Might have worked. A number often bandied about is that the bomb spared 2,000,000 lives, but I'm open to other arguments. Here's some good info on the debate:
-
3
-
-
In any case, I originally was responding to Wrecker's post about Trump not starting any wars and his work in the Middle East. I was trying to make the point that it was probably a good move for US, Israel and the Arabs states to ally against Iran, and that the election of Biden puts that in jeopardy. The people here, while openly anti-semitic, nevertheless fear Iran more and wish to make their opposition explicit.
We'll see what happens, but if the accord breaks down, people here will see that as just another example of Jewish treachery and US fickleness. The US is a poor friend, as they see it. But if they have the F-35's by then, they will have been compensated somewhat, and the situation will be very complex indeed.
It's an important point that is being missed, in my opinion, that Trump got the deal done by selling a first-strike weapon to a middle-eastern regime. Was that smart? He would do anything to make himself look good....
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, dieter said:
In the case of the so-called West, it's very much US versus them, endorsed by greed, stupidity and weapons of mass destruction.
And not the only one. In fact, in my experience, the so-called West is the least greedy, definitely the smartest and the only ones who could be trusted with weapons of mass destruction.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, dieter said:
What I fail to comprehend about your summary is why, in a nutshell, you make out that Kissinger and Co, I.E. the USA and Israel are the good guys in this scenario. They are the ones who have fired all the shots, started the most wars and killed more people that any of the people you define as the bad guys. In other words, you have fallen totally in line with the US/Israel depiction of the Middle east as Us and Them. I guess, in essence, when you refine it, the Us and them concept is the centre-piece of the 3 Judeo/Christian/ Islamic faiths. Had it ever occurred to you that maybe we're all the same that all this religious stuff, this need to define an enemy is pure and absolute [censored]?
1. Can’t quite see how I made out out one side to be good and the other bad.... thought I was just describing the situation for the benefit of anyone interested. Maybe you’d like to point out where I went wrong.
Having said that, I certainly consider myself a Westerner and grateful for it, having lived in Chinese civilisation and Sunni Arab civilisation and found them both seriously wanting in certain respects that are important to me, namely freedom of expression and potential for social mobility among other things. Just wish the neoliberals would die, and then maybe I could move back to Aus and get a job.
2. Sure, it’s occurred to me, but do you think it has occurred to other parties hereby mentioned? I guess part of my summary that needs to be understood is that Sunni Arabs certainly see the world in an us v them way, as do Shias. By the way, us Westerners are NOT included among the Us.
There is much more to it - the conceptions of belongings and loyalties and identities involved - I couldn’t type it all out, but if you want to ask a question I can try to answer it rationally for you.
Maybe it would be useful to point out that national identities such as American or Israeli are not the primary level of identity among people here. They are first and foremost a member of a religious group. Nationality comes way down the list. Also, the religious group is not necessarily defined in the way that us Westerners define a religious group. It is less a personal matter than a worldview, an ideology, an entire way of life endorsed by the creator of the universe which other peoples reject to their eternal damnation. You have to go back 500 years in western cultures to find this idea prominent. Where I live, the West was last like this 800 years ago.
This manifests itself in ways which maybe a lot of Aussies don’t understand. For instance, when the US and allies invaded Iraq, people here didn’t see it in those terms. They see it as Christian’s invading Muslims. When I point out that the USA doesn’t represent Christianity, but is a nation of many faiths, none of which it represents, makes no impression. They liked Saddam, no matter how murderous, corrupt and rapacious he was, and forgive him personal and political failings because he killed Shias and because he identified as a Sunni.
Different way of seeing the world. Very much Us v. Them, endorsed by God.
-
2
-
-
3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:
What does Lewis have to do with quality people? No idea why we keep topping up his superfund
Apparently, as I understand it, he played in the midfield of a successful team at one point. Let me google him to be sure.
Perhaps, maybe, may I posit, that his experience, skill, and his personal relationships with current Demons may make him a better candidate for a position than, say, other superfund topping up old guys?-
3
-
-
10 hours ago, Demonland said:
Re: Vic clubs getting $$$ and us getting nothing Pert explained they’re getting $$$ because they have existing facilities. Because we don’t have an existing facility and are just looking we don’t fall the category for $$$.
Re: Cairns debacle - AFL booked the flights. Was out of our control. No info on whether we kicked up a fuss or whether that would have helped.
Re: Lot of talk about improving consistency from quarter to quarter and week to week and improving psychological aspect to our game. These were problems identified in the club review.
I like the fact the Burgo told it as it was. A little concerned that others didn't have the cojones. Not much risk in it, surely.
-
12 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:
Although born a Capricorn I think he self identifies as a Libran.
Get my wife in; she's a Librarian.
-
Now here it is with its caption. A clear and obvious attempt to push a particular political line, contrary to evidence.
-
1
-
-
Here is a second picture from the same article:
-
Here is the same picture, with the caption as it appeared in the Australian.
Apparently, the guy is a 'moderate.'
-
49 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:
ou dont need to see them, the election fraud was perpetrated in front of the world on election night.
And here's why. Check out the picture. Who is this guy? Where is he? Why is he holding a rock? Why is the bus burning?
-
7 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:
Time Magazine which racistly named Obama person of the year has just named joint persons of the year Biden and Harris.
Nevermind Trump has started getting peace in the middle east and never instigated a war
What is the bet no Republican president ever wins it? You only have to be elected as a Democrat though.
I'm surprised Hillary never won for trying to break the glass ceiling.
Peace in the Middle East is more complicated than it appears, and it appears very complicated. I live in the Sunni Arab ME and am writing out of personal experience only.
People were dismayed by the OBM administration doing the deal with Iran. Here, you don't bring your enemies closer, you obliterate them. Iran is the enemy. "They want their empire back," so it is sometimes said to me.
But they're not the only enemy. Where else in the world would you get students writing essays about how great Hitler was because 1. He built great roads, and 2. killed a lot of Jews? However, the announcement of the Abraham Accords was greeted with utter silence. There are two reasons for this: 1. Fear, and 2. They realize there is an advantage in being close to Israel. One is access to the Al Aqsa Mosque; another, the tech (which they already buy and use); and the third is that Israel hates Iran and have the nukes to deter them, though simultaneously recognizing the nukes will not deter Iran, once Iran gets their nukes, which they are eventually sure to do.
The key to the deal, however, is the sale of F-45's. This give people here first-strike capability across the region, including against Israel if or when the accords fail.
So, it's a matter of priorities. Obliterate, absolutely. But obliterate your major enemy first. The next can wait.
According to Henry Kissinger the world seems to be carving itself into four regions set against each other in a kind of cold war. The war is well underway in cyberspace, as Aussies should by now be well aware, and that Americans should understand as Russian interference in elections and Chinese hacking of, well, every good idea they can get their hands on. Iran is well up there now and North Korea a significant but bit-player. See Nina Schick for info on all that. So astonishingly smart, and so simple: divide and conquer using our strengths against us. It's the Art of War, martial arts 101.
Anyway, Kissinger says there are four scenarios that are the most likely catalysts for a large-scale conflagration. I gather he meant a conventional conflagration, but a cyber-war may be more likely, hard to say:
1. A deterioration in US-Chinese relations, whereby they tumble into the Thucydides Trap.
2. A breakdown of relations between Russia and the West, based on mutual incomprehension and made possible by:
3. A collapse of European hard power, due to the inability of modern European leaders to accept that diplomacy without the credible threat of force is just hot air; and/or
4. An escalation in the Middle East due to the Obama administration"s readiness in the eyes of the Arab states and Israel to hand hegemony in the region to a still revolutionary Iran.
Has the election of Biden made any of these less likely?
-
6 hours ago, Jara said:
Hey Grr-owl - I must have eating my kids' hash cookies and been transported into another universe - either that or the Russians have hacked my brain. You quoted me saying something pro Diaper Don - about him having photos of suitcases of votes coming in - I don't think I said this. I've never said anything positive about him - he's a narcissistic monster.
Hey while we're here - my apologies if somebody's already listed this, but check out Randy Rainbow's Stable Genius on Youtube
Hmmm.... think it was originally in a post by P2J.....
-
6 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:
You dont need to see them, the election fraud was perpetrated in front of the world on election night.
They just stopped counting in 6 swing states where Trump was up by hundreds of thousands of votes then start hauling ion stacks of votes for Biden. Most blatant fraud in election history. it made Venezuela blush.
I do need to see them. Then verify them to ensure that what I am seeing really is what it purports to be. The fact that you recommend accepting things on faith is troublesome. Give me evidence and reasonable people will accept it.
It is impossible to rig an American election, because as Bob points out, it is in fact more than 50 separate elations all of which would have to be rigged simultaneously, without evidence coming out.
-
1
-
Trump v. Biden
in General Discussion
Posted
I'm not sure why you bring all this up. No doubt he's right on some points, and certainly deluded on others; I love bluesy rock n' roll for instance. In any case, I'm not arguing ....
Let me put it this way: Let's say it's hot out, 40 degrees or so. You have to go out and there's two cars in the driveway. Identical Datsun Sunnys. They are beaten up and broken in exactly the same way. The tires need some air. The window winders don't work. Everything is the same except for one thing: one has airconditioning and the other doesn't. Which one are you going to take to the shops?
To argue that life in the USSR was better than life in the West over the equivalent period is just absurd.