MyFavouriteMartian

You think that way because you are blind to this side of things. Simply, that is why you do not understand these matters.

R U serious.?

Daisy, its interesting that progressives get termed 'Trolls', when they make criticisms of our clubs failing ways since the Mid 60's. In wanting the club to change from its losing ways, so we can all enjoy more positiveness and winning ways. Maybe those who 'dare to', and see the why's, in our failings, compared to 'the conservatives', who do not dare to hop out on that limb, to also try to create change for the better. The conservatives can't see the vision because they are trapped in a fear of getting something wrong...which inevitably they do anyway. What the conservatives typically do is to criticise those who want change to a better methodology, (so that winning can become more frequent). Conservatives generally do not want change. It's sheer madness. Change, we must. The veil of negativity is due to conservatism within Mfc, outside the fence. We have lost most of our progressive supporters over the decades, because of our failing ways... (they gave up on us) and its the conservative element that holds the power of numbers, mostly now, simply because conservatives become 'rusted on'. So what happens when remaining progressives criticise and call for change; the conservatives try to push them out, try to silence them, because all the conservatives can see, is just plain criticism. And not the dream behind, the want for change. The conservatives lack the vision to see the way forward, and out of the mire of conservative soup we flounder within. .

And your point is.? Surely the first point of call within the club is to a staff member, if things aren't going well, or unravelling. Other than that, the more private option outside the club is to talk to friends/family-members/family-doctor... to get things tracking. In which case the Dr will get things rolling if needed, with a referral to a specialist. It's not the head coaches area. More the club doctors area. Or even the team manager. Hatred can only take you one way, deeper into the negative mire.

Both great Mfc footy champs. But a good big man beats a good medium or small man. The Ox takes it for mine.

Have a talk to SWYL. maybe even a way to digitise them.???

That was the difference in cultures; there's was a dare to win at any cost culture, Ours was to play too much inside the rules; the cubs cultures born of their previous years of experiences. Hawks of tough uncompromising even brutal winning ways and of dour struggles to grind away. Ours was most recently of getting pummelled, as a club. By most all comers. The new young players and interstate recruits did not bring the negative nervousness into the club. It lived on in the supporters minds, memories, and that negative vibe was brought to the games.

Not only '88. Had he stayed, he would have been another of the troop playing with Robbie in '87, in that Preliminary Final. And most likely, in the Granny following.

So, is the AFL going to buy the Hilton.?

And why does this happen to us.? Is it our leaders maybe look down on some types of players.? that might be not in vogue.??? Id like to understand the inner thoughts of these guys hurt be this cub. So we can put a stop to whatever this cancer is.?

And the same was said of Petracca last year. We got into him, and he seems to have heeded the words of ire. There's a saying once used, To to Put Up, or Shut Up. Another one is 'The Buck Stops Here'. with the players. So many Melbourne players have not reached near their potentials, and much blame rests with the attitudes expressed around the club, and around the players. We all complain about the poor development of our players in our past, and we do effect them; myself included in this fault. Where i too suggested to some players, that they were better than what they thought. It doesn't help them, and mostly hinders their attitudes.

My concern is, when we start to place players ahead of their true level, prior to them achieving this, we shoot our own feet, each time. How many times and players do we, (this club) need to stifle the development of, Via our own desperation to have a Hero.? Robert Flower entered the club and fought names/innuendo's as a youngster, like '4 eyes, and 'skin and bones', comments.... he was dee-termined to prove he could, and he developed himself totally, even relearning things when Barassi arrived, making Flower a more rounded player. We often turn many players into our own lap dogs, thru too much lavishing.

And this is a part of our losing nature. That its more about old acquaintance, than being the best. And admiring 'The Best', rather than the One's we identify with mostly. This, IMO, is also linked to our development of our young players minds. Or lack of development. We at Melbourne do have a way of getting ahead of ourselves, such is our weakness to put some on pedestals... and to Castigate any who trespass against us. = Dipper, Dermie, etc. There is a distinct lack of balance, with us in this area, to our own detriment. And we struggle to develop fully, and we also tend to lack that Unpalatable Aggression we castigate in others. Co-Incidence,? I think NOT. Bruise free keeps returning to us... Live by the lack of a sword, die by the lacking sword.

I think Oliver has a lot of work to do, to get anywhere near his potential. H is very rough with using the ball, he needs to polish up most of his work. The only thing elite about him atmo, is his intensity/disposal numbers. To say he's elite already, is doing him a dis-service.. Cheap flattery does nothing to help people work to their utmost.

Oliver is not elite yet, he should become so, but is terribly wasteful with his possessions. And turnovers via poor use, at times. But he's young and still learning and developing. Similarly with Brayshaw. The two of them need to pull the digit back out, and fire up & improve.

Well, the climate in our support base has certainly gotten cold, over the past 50Yrs. Interestingly the same time frame, as the worst of our climate warming. Since 1970, we seen the warming and the rise in inflationary investments, and homes becoming commodities. And out of affordable range, for the most vulnerable of our fellow Australians. So yeah, as it happens, you seem to be onto sump-thin, W45.

That attitude goes right thru the club, not just players, so it underpins everyone's jobs, and how they go about them. Whether 'the staff' are a bit shy in attitude, or go 'hell-for-leather', to get what we want... whether that be recruits or HQ's, training venues, or growing our support base. This attitude must invade every nook'n'cranny of the club, and everyone in it. Hell we all know its been missing for half a century, and still counting.

If, you want that Demon attitude back, then bring back Checker first. It's not Smithy we're missing, its the Political Correctness that rid us of Smithy, that continues to kill this club. Political Correctness was just arising in the 60's, and the New-Broom swept the winning Demon, right out of the club. People more concerned with their own world perceptions, took over the world & the Mfc, and have done increasingly more damage to the way things were, and were done. For good and for bad. For good, black rights, womens rights. etc. For bad, new mining activities, and forestry practices, outsourcing, etc Some things need to step back to older ways. Fishing activities. Forestry, and the Demon attitudes. Some things need to keep modernising. Womens, Human rights, population growth, decentralisation, etc.

Hmmn; Northern Blues.?

No. I haven't changed the parameters at all. I have been talking about that small shelf above the elite level, all along. I haven't changed anything in what I've been talking about. Ling was elite, Bartel was elite. Buckley was elite. Voss was elite bordering plus. Probably above elite. There are quite a few elite players, now, and in the past. Hird.? Where would you place Keith Greig.?

swyl, there are a few players who come along who are above elite. above the Fyfe's and and GablettJnr's. Selwood and Dangerfield are today's elite. Lockett and GablettSnr were above this elite level. So to Flower. Bruce Doull, above elite.

Oh, I suppose so.?

So what is the difference between the 'Hall of Fame' level, and the 'Legend' level.? Don't you see, that a small few, are just above the elite level.?

What are you saying, PF.? Don't you get, Elite plus.? >>> a better level than just elite.?

What was Lockett, and Gablett snr.? Your elite, there must be very few. I'd say elite is like 'Hall of Famer', and plus is 'Legend'.