grazman

I can understand the reasoning behind Andrew's assessment's of Bell and Sylvia, but disagree on the final verdict. I think though that Bell has been a more than solid citizen for us this year - his disposal is actually very good and the problem with his decision making is he is always trying to hit the best option - he just needs to take the first option - problem is a lot of the first options aren't that good because his team mates are standing flat footed. (actually it was Old55 that pointed that out to me). I'll continue to push the case for him to become an "on ball tagger" We don't have one and Bell's pace, aggression, discipline and skills make him the ideal candidate IMO. Old also fancies Sylvia off the half back flank, and I'd have to agree that when moved back and allowed to attack the footy he looked a lot better - I just don't think playing forward or midfield is his go at the moment, he still has a lot of footy yet to learn, but his aggression and clean handling were very encouraging. (Sorry if I've mis-quoted you in your abscence Old )

I thought Sylvia has struggled when he is put forward. I thought he actually did a lot better tonight when moved to half back. White's game was extremely disappointing. I think he needs to play the Peter Moore Ruckman roll now where he plays a kick behind play. I was hoping this was going to be Jamar's year, but he's almost gone - provided nothing tonight. Bell was good.

I don't think it is as much of an issue as supporters who think that players shaking hands and catching up after the game (it was Junior, Davey and Hall who all played in Ireland that were sharing a laugh) is somehow indicative of a poor culture. I believe the FD conducts a review every year, I think many of us would expect some very difficult and maybe unpopular decisions to be made. If all you have to do to be seen as competitive is to look sad after a loss even I could be competitive, hell if I shouted at my team mates enough some would even consider me a leader. I'm not having a go at you specifically 64, but I thought our attitude in the first quarter sucked and after that it improved. I'm not concerned on the interaction at the end of the game as much as I am about how they do it in a game.

or the fact that it is completely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Good on Paul Gardner, I can just guess what some will think of this. Compare his response to that of Joe Gutnik's when he stormed into the commentary box in 97 at half time against the Saints in Rd six and we were looking at a fifth straight loss.

Exactly Jaded, but just to clarify the situation, the original injury was from the Hawthorn game, he then reinjured the same shoulder in the Freo game.

Oh, you mean the game he dislocated his shoulder and kept playing.

Yep, the one and the same, in reference the 1928/29 season where Australia got pantsed and Bradman was out for 18 and for 1 before being dropped.

Wheatley dislocated his shoulder in his return match. Still playing injured. Sylvia OP, Bell probably still feeling the effects of having his nose broken twice in two weeks and Davey alleged to have a thigh problem. Pickett lacking fitness. Other than that a clean slate.

Its not often that I disagree with you Rhino, but I do here. It's not luck as you say, but there are certainly no guarantees, particularly when you are asked to speculate on "kids". I'd love to see the draft age lifted to 21 over the next ten years to reduce even further the "guess work" when clubs are asked to invest their futures in essentially unknown quantities. EG. Would Col be pick 3 in an Under 21 draft?

I don't think it should. Dunn looks very comfortable playing FF, Miller worked his backside off at CHF, people should accept his limitations (no he's never going to be a Brown or Carey type CHF). He is a very honest footballer with a big heart and workrate.

Watching the game here in Canberra today I was bemused by a couple of things. Firstly a comment by Tim Watson saying that Danners has to persist with Dunn. Really - when would that have been when he was missing with a fractured cheekbone? Sometimes commentators frustrate the living hell out of me. Secondly - I lost count of the number of times today (mainly coming out of defence) that a player would stop, prop (for an eternity) and realise there was nothing ahead to kick to so he had to move the ball laterally. Now maybe not having an interchange contributes to this, but this is fast becoming my greatest peave with watching us play.

and I live in the Southern Suburbs. Canberra

and Henry James used it in a book many more years before Dylan. It's an old proverb... I just like Paul Kelly's version.

That's my understanding to. Provocation is only a defence for murder, can't be used for any other type of assault. The AFL judiciary appears to base a lot of its decisions based on previous cases of similar fact (very much like common law) I guess it isn't necessarily bound by precedent, but if it should be obligated to at least explain its decisions based on the facts and how they have differed in previous charges. Most people are absolutely correct in that the lid is well and truly off the box now - but beware anyone that thinks there maybe any sort of consistency in the tribunal and its decision making in the future. Hodge doesn't get penalised on a tripping charge even though Lappin has missed two weeks, Headland gets off after clearly belting a bloke. I bet you a demon kicks the ball into a goal umpire on the weekend and gets 12 weeks.

or so sung Paul Kelly. I'm driven to write this in pursuit of balance. I know some people have sought to put our situation in perspective and I also know people will be outraged that there could be any justifiable defence for the performances of the club to date. I'm not making excuses and I'm not telling people they shouldn't express their opinions.... I'm just asking for people to think before posting and not vent and rant. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been happy with the way things have gone and thought we would have started the year a lot better than we have. I also suspect that not only are the performances not in keeping with the expectations of the majority of the supporters, but of the football department and players themselves. Depending on which poster you read everyone on the list (with the exception of McLean and Rivers) should either be traded or delisted. The coaches can't coach, the football department has been negligent in its trading and drafting and the entire culture and ethos of the club tolerates mediocrity and second rate performances. These sorts of comments are both ridiculous and frivolous. They are made by people whose expectations of achieving a premiership this year have plunged them into a cycle of despair, a despair that "turns imagination into fact" (Paul Kelly again) The club's last ten years have been its most successful since its last premiership. We all crave the achievement of the holy grail. I'm not quite sure why people believe that the list is so bad. Last week we didn't have our best forward, midfielder or backman. (Neitz, McLean and Rivers) Throw in another three starting 1st XVIII in Bartram, Robertson and Pickett as well as three of our most promising juniors in Sylvia, Dunn and Frawley and thats a third of the side missing. (we are like a heavyweight boxer with one arm tied behind his back ATM) People are happy to overlook that players like Bell and Jones are developing into outstanding talents, because some can't see past the forest for the trees. The list is in good shape IMO, and probably the opinion of many others too, but there are those who are willing to believe the worst, because they lack the essence of moderation. It is all or nothing. Players are either stars or duds. There are even some posters that openly decry the current state of affairs, that the club is doomed and we will never succeed. Not surprisingly a lot of these posters also appear to have all the answers to turn things around. They point to a continued lack of leadership, yet ignore both Bruce and Miller have been working their collective arses off to try and lift their team mates. They say the players are soft and timid, yet ignore that it hasn't been a lack of effort as much as lack of skill and poor awareness that has led to our defeats. They say the players and coaches don't care and are clueless - well such comments are all well and good coming from the anonymity of computer terminal. The game passes bye very quickly its not only inconceivable, but the complete antithesis of those driven to succeed that this could be true. I dare say such posters rarely take the time to make constructive comment or find ways to assist the club, afterall it is easier to blow up a bridge than build one. Occasionally playing footy you are good enough to challenge for a premiership, most of the time you may not be. I think the list is a lot closer to a premiership now than at any other stage since I first started following football in 1981. As supporters we yearn - like players and coaches - for premiership success. For some of us it validates the time and effort we invest in watching and supporting the club, for others it is the very essence of the sport itself - no one wants to follow a loser. If however, the only way we measure success is by adding up the tally of premierships, then I think we will have missed something intrinsically beautiful and magnificent about this game and this club. It is the competing that is the most important element. There is a team that symbolises everything I believe that is good and honest in sport, a team with the likes of Flower and Barrassi, Norm Smith and the Cordners.... I am proud of a club whose football department and coach were big enough to put the club before their own self interests, I am proud too that we aren't like the Eagles... as Caro made the point "They may be the best team in the competition but are winning few friends in the process. Not that they seem to care. " I will cheer as loudly as anyone when we win that premiership - and we will, because it won't be a matter of luck, it will be a matter of hard work and determination. For all those bagging the club and its players have a good look around you and ask yourself ten years on is our club in better shape to not only survive on the field, but off the field as well? I think the answer is yes. Injuries are cruel and they threaten to destroy our entire year, that's not an excuse it is reality. Adversity can be a spur that drives you on or drives you under. Don't give into your fears and frustrations. The following quote from Winston Churchill is worth reflecting on, not for the coach or the players, but for us as supporters. "Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. "

I could never see this getting up. No video evidence, no report by the umpire. Reported on Chick's say so.... I imagine the proceedings went something like this.... Chick: He punched me in the Ribs! Carr: Did Not! Chick: Did Too! Carr: Did Not! Chick: Did Too! Carr: Did Not! Chick: Did Too! Carr: Did Not! Chick: Did Too! Carr: Drugo!

When was Bell played in the midfield?

It does. I used to cry when I was a kid and Melbourne lost - and I was only listening to it on the radio. Then I remember the days when we'd beat an inform team and I'd be on top of the world. (I guess that's why we call it love ) Being gracious and humble in victory is probably something you should instill in your kids, because in footy you are only one win closer to your next embarrassing defeat.

I'm 39 and despite not winning a premiership (along with the Saints, Dogs, Cats, and the Lions of old) in my living memory, I've always considered it a privilage to barrack for the club. I barrack for the Dees because it's the club that I chose, it's the club of Hughes, Smith, Cordner, Barassi, Spencer, Dixon, Ridley, Adams, Alves, Flower, Lyon, Stynes etc.... It's what the club stands for that I love... I can see no reason to apologise to your kids, if winning is all they care about in footy then barrack for the Eagles... they should feel right at home.

Ahhh the remorse of the gambler.... I dare you to call Carroll or Godders or Belly or Wheels or Junior or Moloney or..... gutless to their face.

McLean, Neitz, Robbo, Bartram, Sylvia and our first draft pick Frawley. Thats more than a quarter of your 1st XVIII. I'm pretty sure neither the coaching or the game plan are responsible for them getting injured. No one is happy with the current situation - but the prime mission statement of supporters is to support. Sure we can all have our opinons about what is happening and maybe what needs to change, but at the end of the day we all go to the games to support the team we love. Purely and simply we struggle to compete against interstate clubs because they have far more money to throw at resourcing their team than we do. This weekend we play the Dockers who have won exactly as many games as we have... many picked them to win the premiership, yet they have only really lost players to suspension, not injury. We have lost our forward line and midfield drive.

and there isn't a court in the land that would convict him on saying something that was clearly not true. There are no laws against lying or being an idiot. Only one in ten child abuse cases get investigated due to a lack of resources and then only one of those then has action taken.... if people want to get upset about the issue then they should direct their indignation towards their local member not slagging off on some message board at other anonymous posters about the actions of a couple of overpaid morons. None of that will 1) gain a greater appreciation of the issues involved or 2) actually lead to anything constructive being done.

Two words to be used here, perspective and context. Most would agree that in many, if not all, situations what Selwood said was not acceptable. Most would agree that Headlands reaction was disproportinate - afterall it is the football field and he does get be thousands of dollars to play football not get suspended. At the end of the day Selwood hasn't broken any criminal law in the land, yet Headland has... as has Kerr and Cousins, and Chick and....

The actual sledge aside (although what do think might happen the next time that Headland takes the field - NO ONE TALK ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER) The real issue here for me is how the Dockers are handling this.... Sure a player expects a club to support them, but for God's sake this will be the third Big suspension for the Dockers before round four. Discipline starts at the top and it starts by not making excuses. Get paid a professional wage, how about you earn it!