grazman

ditto

Makes the idea of Hawthorn trading Cyril for a couple of top 20 picks (as has been suggested) to get back into the first round a bit silly then.

Not really an oversight if he thought Petracca would go number 1. What's apparent is the club rated McCartin in the top 3 talents for that draft. What Jason Taylor's order would have been is speculative.

not sure if he was rested in the last, but suspect he was as when he's on the field he's where the ball is at. Goes alright does Clarrie - Essendon can keep Parish, I like this guy.

While I know you're tongue is in you cheek Red, sadly it's there because the AFL are unlikely to do what the NRL and IOC do when it comes to cheating and that is take away the rewards for those that are exposed as breaking the rules.

Excellent recall Tim!

When was the last time we beat the reigning premiers? Was it in 1988 when we beat Carlton in the PF?

Yeah, nah, a short lived rule to try and prevent Matthew Lloyd from diving - don't think it worked from memory.

Has a Joel Selwood poster on his wall at home.

Sorry my bad, both would have been very handy on our list, but neither would have been what Danners had in mind. With the benefit of hindsight it is easy for us to criticise the coach for interfering, but specifying a type isn't the same as picking a name, and whatever else you can say about the process, Danners was acutely aware of the weakness inherent in our list at the time. I would think that many other coaches have done the same thing, but probably none had the misfortune of having that pick suffer as badly from injury as Luke Molan.

Dal Santo. IIRC Daniher didn't specify Molan, rather he asked CC to draft the 'toughest' kid in the draft, which CC assessed to be Molan.

LOL -The same response I get from my colleagues when I start talking footy to them. The crux of the argument is when you look at Roos' trading history players like Jolly, Richards, Shaw and McGlynn at the time were never perceived to be as good as they turned out to be. Mumford and JPK maybe were, but weren't considered big fish. Only Davis was (but there were issues and he basically walked out on the Pies) Of the others not a lot was given up and not a lot lost by their trading. Roos is in an unusual situation at Melbourne where we need to turn over and trade out significantly more than he ever had to at the Swans. For those waiting to land the big fish... like most fishing stories it will probably be the case of the one that got away "just as I was about to reel him in...". These deals are much harder to complete and can end badly (See Swans trading history post Roos for evidence)

If the proposed deals come about in essence we gain Jake Melksham, Essendon's third round pick (currently 40) and Ben Kennedy for the loss of Jimmy Toumpas and our second pick (currently pick 24). There's no real feeling on what we might get for Howe. I know many are feeling underwhelmed at the prospect of picking up either of the two players mentioned, but this is Paul Roos recruiting 101. During his time at Sydney Roos continually traded out mid-range picks for the under-rated, unappreciated talent from other clubs. I doubt that he did this on his own (unless he has some supernatural prescient powers or crystal ball in his locker), its far more likely this was a result of the FD sitting down and addressing list needs with what they could get to develop the list (see below for a potted history). Goodwin apparently rates Melksham and Taylor apparently rates Kennedy so I dare say that Roos is happy to back his team in if that's their view. The net result is we downgrade a pick in a weakish draft by 16 spots (maybe we miss a player we were targetting for, or maybe we end up with the same player anyway) and a player that isn't currently and may never be in our best 22 for two players we think will be. This is more than we collectively paid for Mitchie (pick 54), Riley (delisted) and Newton (delisted). Given that it's the same people in the FD I think it's also reasonable to assume the expectations would be for a greater output from both compared to the previous trio given we're prepared to play slightly more. Sam Frost is another classic example where we gained a player and two picks (ANB-40 and O Mac-53) for a second round pick (23 Patrick Mckenna GWS who may yet go on to be a brownlow medallist along with Josh Kelly). Lumumba for Clark was more a like for like swap (player who needed to move) rather than a typical Roos trading pattern. So Roos' trading history in brief: Started coaching mid 2002 (replaced Eade) to the end of 2010. 2002 traded in Nick Davis for pick 21 (Bo Nixon) Nixon went on to play 4 games (3 for the Pies and 1 for Hawthorn) while Nick Davis was a premiership hero (without him they arguably wouldnt have made the GF) for the Swans, played 97 games. Win/Lose deal. 2003 traded out Scott Stevens to Adelaide (119 games) for picks 29 Tim Schmidt (17 games) and pick 45 Amon Buchanan (116 games) was a premiership player. Win/Win deal. 2004 traded in Darren Jolly for Pick 15 (Lynden Dunn - 161 games) we made out like bandits and Jolly (118 games) was instrumental in Roos game plan that won them a premiership the following year. Win/Win deal. 2005 traded in Ted Richards (220 games) for picks 19 + 50 (Courtney Dempsey - 119 games and Sam Lonergan 79 games). Essendon got two handy but inconsistent players and Sydney got the cornerstone of their defence for the next decade. Win/Lose deal. 2006 traded in Peter Everitt for Pick 33 (Jarryd Morton). Morton played 22 games for Hawthorn (including probably his best against Melbourne) and Everitt another 39 for the Swans including finals- filled a need for the Swans. Lose/Lose deal. 2007 traded in Henry Playfair for pick 44 (Scott Simpson) Playfair only managed 16 games for the Swans before injury ended his career, Simpson didnt play a game for the Cats.Lose/Lose deal. 2008 traded in Rhys Shaw for pick 46 (Luke Rounds) Shaw played 143 games for the Swans and Rounds played 6 for the Pies. Win/Lose deal. 2009 The biggest trading period at his time at the club. Traded in Mark Seaby 18 games and pick 55 (Trent Dennis-Lane 19 games) for picks 22 (Gorrick Weedon 1 game for the Eagles) and pick 118 (not used); Lose/Lose traded in Mumford for pick 28 (Mitch Duncan 111 games and counting), Win/Win also traded in JPK and McGlynn for Amon Buchanan pick 46 (Ben Stratton 92 games) and pick 70 (Rookie upgrade) Win/Lose. The motherlode of trading. Overall as a package if the Swans hadn't had to cash in Mumford for TPP room for Tippet/Buddy this would be arguably one of the best trade periods by any club in terms of adding ready to go players even with Seaby as a bust. 2010 was Roos last year at the Swans, Longmire had pretty much taken over and was calling the shots on their list. This was the first time in Roos time at the club that they were inactive at the trade table. Roos' Win/Lose deals established his reputation, but there were some win/win and lose/lose trades in that bunch, but the end result is that rarely, if ever, (although these are very much subjective assessments) were the Swans on the wrong side of the ledger. My rather long winded and elaborated point is Roos has runs on the board, I'll trust in his track record.

The four year deal is the carrot needed for him to change clubs... the rest is just a subjective assessment of how we rate the player.

or PTSD - negligence in regard to their duty of care.

Interesting watching the Brownlow coverage last night. They interviewed a bunch of people including Nat Fyfe's neighbour growing up - Cale Morton. What stood out is that they singled out Fyfe's competitiveness. Morton was the more highly touted junior, but arguably Fyfe was the kid prepared to crawl over broken glass to taste success. Fyfe has a Brownlow and Morton is no longer on an AFL list. I think the club is now onto this.

Interesting. I voted for Josh Kennedy on the 'big fish' thread - this is more a pipe dream than reality though. Look at his game against Freo and tell me he's not worth two first round picks. 28 or not the guy is one of the best going around; whether, its 3,4,5 or 6 years he has left in him - he is elite. Big bodied, good in the air, kicks goals and a clearance machine - I just can't see the Swans wanting to trade him regardless of the talent coming through.

Thanks for sharing GD. Sydney is interesting, they tend to get who they want and their first target is Luey - but they're restricted to 450K so it will make it hard for them, but maybe not impossible given their continued run of finals and the lifestyle on offer up there.

1 more year to run on his contract, may pay him out, may just wait until next year - particularly in a shallow draft. Ditto for M Jones.

Agree, our bowling stocks are well served, but it's always easier to bring in bowlers taking wickets than batsmen making runs. There are enough good quicks and spinning options on the sideline to offer support, but the batting... Byrnes and Ferguson are probably the two most likely based on last years form and age, - Neither Klinger or Cowan fill me with confidence. I just can't believe we are getting pantsed by an English attack that includes, Ali, Finn and Wood (These guys would have been smashed all over the park by any Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh or even Ricky Ponting led sides). Our batting has been deplorable. Healy hinted that the WAGs were a distraction (which I interpret to mean the sort of reality TV faux drama that only serves to divide the dressing room by their other halves having to take sides n their bitching about each other).

Interesting comments from Ed Cowan this morning who stated that Cricket Australia had ordered that flat pitches were to be prepared for Sheffield Shield. This allows players with technical deficiencies to look better than they are, but means that we get exposed on pitches where the ball actually starts to do a bit. Been like this for the last ten years. Once Clarke goes there's only two locks in the top six for mine.

Perhaps in the eyes of many supporters, but it's hard to know exactly what other clubs see in players sometimes. I think he has some trade value, but not much more than as a like for like swap or later draft pick (mid to late 30s maybe).

An interesting selection dilemma, I have no great confidence that despite his form Shaun Marsh will make runs at Trent Bridge, but the only viable alternatives are Voges or Watson, so he has to come in. You wouldn't change the top 3, but I agree that Clarke dropping down to five might be what he needs. I would drop Starc. Hazlewood looked a lot more comfortable and bowled a better line to a more defensive field setting. I think bowling to four slips put a lot of pressure on him to do something with the ball when all he needed to do was bowl line and length - which is what Siddle does very well. The English lineup looks a lot better with Bell finding form at 3, so Clarke should take some heart from that. I really like Cummings, but Australia needs to get the basics right if its to level the series. Lyon is bowling well and Johnson is the X factor, but we need two other line and length bowlers nibbling away at off stump to build pressure. Starc won the world cup for us, but just isn't the same bowler with the red ball, if we could guarantee our top order fire, he stays in, but otherwise he just bleeds too many runs for the occasional unplayable delivery.

If this isn't Clarke's last test series - it's more than likely his second last. I've never been a rap for the man personally, but as a batsman he's all class. He genuinely looked like he lost sight of the ball in the background of the windows on a murky day... he's not in great form but until the last test series he's pretty much been the most consistent and prolific scorer. There is no one who can replace him atm so - serious questions or not he won't be replaced and I'm betting the selectors will back him to the hilt to fight his way through it. There's been no mention of dropping Warner who is also having trouble watching the ball (and once he's in throws his wicket away recklessly). In general there's a dirth of good middle order talent atm in Australian cricket (which is why Voges is playing) - our strength is our bowling, but sometimes we need to reinforce to both our batsmen and bowlers that this is test cricket and its a test of patience as much as skill. We tried to push things too fast on day one. The other big plus for Clark is he's a fantastic captain. My biggest criticism of Punter as a captain was that he just left the game to drift whereas Clark is always doing something. We're lucky that the heir apparent is in a rich vein of form and cut from the same cloth.

Yes the article wasn't exactly clear about a few details. It appears there are certain safeguards for clubs trading away all their next years early picks - but isn't clear on whether a club can trade both its first round picks in the same trade period. It certainly introduces a further dimension of risk into the trade - but chance favours the prepared and I feel my confidence in our recruiting team now is a lot more justified than it has been in the past.