stevethemanjordan

Ahhh Sat-man. You're gorgeous.

Enjoy that you can provide info from the mouths of some of our players. But when you say something like 'he didn't think much of Perth growing up' I'm not sure who's words they are.. There are countless interviews in which he makes it no mystery to anyone how he feels about Perth/his home. He loves it. That's not to say he dislikes Melbourne. But you're certainly painting a different picture by saying what you have.

Yeh big fella I do. It's 'reasons' though. Not 'reason'. You're pretty much painting it black and white. And I refuse to. Selwood is great. Jones is great. One has been blessed with having a really easy path to reach his potential as a player, the other has had an enormously challenging one. Looking at each player in isolation, (without the stats and accolades) I honestly can't see what Selwood possesses that Jones doesn't. They both have a very similar skill set. Combative, competitive and contested ball winning machines. What would you say Selwood unequivocally possesses over Jones in any given attribute? Regardless of mother[censored] stats bro. Just imagine them playing. In your head.

Yes. You're pointing out what the stats say and the accolades he's received. I'm arguing that much of this is to do with the environment he found himself in once drafted, the group of leaders he played under from a young age, the quality coaches that developed him and the immediate success that surrounded him at Geelong which brings about an increase at every emotional and feeling level. Confidence and motivation. Two things he would never have had to think twice about from his development years at Geelong. Yes he was a higher pick than Nathan and perhaps he is a bit better than Jones in some areas. But the gap isn't as big as what you make out. Put them head-to-head in a couple of training drills and it'd be more even than you think.

I'm almost certain none of Selwood, Pendles or Fyfe would have been able to drag us over the line for a win in any of the years from 2011-13 such was the state of our list and club. Draft an 18 year old Selwood to the MFC in his draft year and I can guarantee he wouldn't be seen as the player he is today. Draft Nathan Jones to Geelong at the top of their power and I can guarantee he'd be valued more highly as a player amongst wider AFL community. Regardless of all of that, the 'star' debate is a waste of time. It's like arguing on the best Ice Cream flavour. Everyone has their own flavour. It's subjective. Not only that, many other variables come to play. For example, the Selwood Vs Jones debate. Selwood will obviously possess the better stats in almost every category due to playing in such a successful team during such a successful era. Jones the complete opposite. His stats even during his best years individually will suffer due to playing in a far less successful and competitive side over such a long period. That is one example. Geelong have suffered since the departure of Ablett and ageing and retirements of midfielders Bartel, Johnson, Kelly and Corey. Without them, Selwood hasn't been able to win games off his own boot and his form really wasn't that consistently good this year. Selwood and Jones are in my mind very similar in playing style, attributes as well as height and weight and if we're isolating them as players, I don't think it's fair to say that Selwood is better than Jones or vice versa. However if we were comparing Fyfe to Jones, or Pendlebury to Jones then it's a different story. They're very different players. Finishing on Oliver vs Jones - Comparing the two from the age of 18 I'd say that it's obvious Oliver has more to offer in terms of attribute diversity, however it remains to be seen whether he has the application and will to get the best out of himself in the way that Jones has been hellbent on doing his entire career. Like ProDee, I'd hope and expect under our now rock-solid environment and development team that Oliver will be better player than Jones.

The more I read from you, the more I'm certain you and 'Hogan's Heroes' are related.

Seconded.

Francis doesn't have an issue with the physicality of the sport. In fact, one of his strengths is his competitiveness and aggression. The complete opposite of Watts. Not only that. Jack Watts was a key forward for the entirety of his under 18's year whereas Francis has been used as a utility for much of this year. Neither are the foil for Jesse. But the Weid certainly could be.

This.He had an OPERATION in May. An ankle op. Imagine how much time he'd have spent off it... Why do posters look at these numbers and think it's the 'be-all-end-all'. Fark. The bloke is a supreme talent. Clubs just want to know that his body will hold up under what I can only imagine would be a seriously stressful environment for the human body. Especially a body that has had some history with serious injury. That's all we'll be looking at. And if we deem him a safe bet at pick 3, he'll have all the pre-seasons in the world to get his 'beep test' up to scratch for all you number lovers. This is not a [censored] potential Olympic marathon runner's draft. It's the AFL draft. And this bloke is a Full Forward.

Hasn't played since May this year after having his second bout of ankle surgery so I've heard. Not only that, he's a stay at home Full Forward. Yet posters are concerned with his beep test and 20 metre sprint test results? Absurd. Clubs would be happy in knowing that he was able to complete these tests. Simply. There's nothing else to it. WTF were y'all expecting? It's a tick off the list in my eyes. Had he not been able to complete the tests due to persisting injuries, it'd be different. But it's not. Wonder what Jake Stringer and Lever would have scored in these tests 6 months after serious injuries...

Salem the ectomorph? (I should never have opened my mouth).

He'll build a frame as long as he has the desire to work as hard as he can, (which from what I've read, is one of his strengths). He looks 'athletic' rather than skin and bone. The frame is there. Obviously the most crucial element in this hypothetical is how we'd develop him, what position we'd play him early in his career and what role he'd be given early days. As far as his attributes go, I think he'd compliment our midfield rotation nicely. I look at what Collingwood have done with Steele Sidebotttom, Freo with Stephen Hill, Hawthorn with Bradley etc. From the day they were drafted they were developed and nurtured appropriately and obviously those individuals benefitted from having strong lists but I think Melbourne supporters are still scarred and scared about what happened with players like Toumpas, Gysberts, Morton etc etc. I'll back our current coaching group to pick up whoever and give them the best preparation and chance to succeed at AFL level. Our list depth/quality and coaching group now should alleviate these worries that supporters have when it comes to drafting players like Parish. Whoever it is at 3 and 7, I'm confident they'll be staple best 22 players in a few years at the very least.

Except the Toumpas and Hodge one yeh?

Both used to play for Essendon... .. .... ...

Obvious to say that when he's at his best and playing with confidence, he's a valuable player. Clearly Goodwin and McCartney believe that he can get back to playing like that with some simplified roles and a new environment. Melksham isn't like Michie, Newton or Riley. He's a previous top 10 pick who's played a whole season (2013), in a manner that validated why he was a top 10 draft pick. Let's get him playing at that level again. Welcome Jake.

I'm sure we'd like either. But we'll need pick 3 to have the chance of landing one. Here's hoping Howe goes to Gold Coast so we can do swapskies of picks.

Good get. Happy with a second rounder. I reckon the haters will be surprised next year. Perfect case of a talented player not playing to his potential at a rabble of a club.

You're my boy, DL.

Well that makes two of us JVF.

You asked about the pot-shotting. I answered. I never accused you of being part of that group. But that group exists on this thread. As for these 'facts' you're basing your argument on, you seem to be conveniently letting slide the one season that he has without doubt proven his worth and talents as a former number 10 draft pick. You've stated he's awful, yet you refuse to acknowledge what he has visibly shown on the football field. So what you're really basing your argument on is his last what, two years? Of which he's been in and out of a side who have had the largest of dark clouds hanging over it. Our club is interested in getting Melksham. Goodwin and McCartney have both been at Essendon with Melksham under their tutelage. What does that tell you mate? That he's awful? lol. He is an upgrade. He adds depth. There is potential for further improvement. They are facts. As for the last bolded line, it just demonstrates your love for exaggeration. Two reasons really: - He's a young player still developing - Collingwood have a string of small forward/midfielders ahead of him and with greater games experience Riley was delisted and we picked him up as a DFA. Newton and Michie were third round draft picks and have helped with our depth. Kennedy possesses a whole range of attributes that our team still lacks. I give up.

You insinuate the reason why Ben Kennedy hasn't been getting regular games is solely to do with his ability or talent as a player. Again. Clearly no idea. I'm assuming you thought (Josh) Kennedy was a dud at Hawthorn before he moved to Sydney then? And the countless others who once moved clubs, became valuable players.

When posters dislike the personality of a player and decide to base their entire argument against recruiting that particular player because of the dislike, it's completely nonsensical. That seems to be the trending theme of this thread. I'll mock them all I like. Either that, or people just refuse to see any positivity surrounding Melksham as a footballer. You being one. In your first post, you state that he's awful which means you didn't see his season in 2013. Or if you did, I'm even more baffled. Awful is a strong word 'Members Wing'. Do you think Watts is awful? How many die-hard supporters on this forum think he's awful? Only a minority. Because he plays for Melbourne. Chatted to any other die-hard supporters from other clubs about him? Overwhelming majority would think he's awful. Generally, die-hard supporters don't have a [censored] clue what they're talking about because they cannot see past their teams colours. Melksham coming into our side for an injured starting 22 player over McKenzie, Bail or Riley actually would help. And if Kennedy was another, it would help too. Our depth has been non-existent. Melksham has runs on the board. Bridge the gap between your best and worst players, and you begin to become a more competitive team when injuries start hitting. That's a fact. It's all part of the puzzle.

Melksham and Kennedy for a second rounder (in a supposed weak draft) is solid. I just see them as immediate upgrades on McKenzie and Riley. They offer more. Provide greater versatility as far as attributes go and have scope for much more significant improvement. (Especially Melksham as he has money in the bank from a few years back). Not sure why anyone would be annoyed/upset about this.... Unless of course you suffer from cognitive dissonance. Which sounds like it could be the majority of posters on this particular thread.

Aside from him. (Like the hot tuna lookalike though).

Agree. Any news on the trade front, great oracle?