stevethemanjordan

Didn't realise, thanks. Good info also, I'll check that app.

One thing that is extremely attractive about this guy's game is that he has genuine mongrel and is very combative from what I've seen. You don't always get that blend of qualities with half-back, silky left-footed types. Watching the bit of play in the lead up to his piercing switch kick which won Country the game, there's a hint of mongrel. He tackles a player holding the ball and proceeds to rub his head into the ground in an extremely aggressive manner. Nice half back flankers don't do that.

Couple of things. Firstly I want to know whether or not we were interested in acquiring his services over the trade period. If we were, then why did he nominate Carlton as his club of choice? As far as money goes, I find it extremely difficult to believe the demonland speculation that he was "asking too much". What, more than we could match? How could Carlton afford to pay Papley (who was reportedly asking for more than we could afford) and Martin on top of Patrick Cripps, McGovern, Curnow and their younger list of budding stars that'll be worth more and more as each year passes? Are there posters here suggesting we are much tighter than Carlton salary cap-wise? Even with Lever and May on larger sized contracts, the difference can't be that great given the quality of lists. Or does someone genuinely know? Martin is bonafide untapped talent. He can do things on a football field that others can only dream about. And in a sporting code that is now as turbulent and uncertain as ever year to year, I can't understand why we're not going hard for this guy. The whole idea that clubs need to 'bottom out' now is a myth. Nobody can predict injuries, attitude, the rise and fall of other sides. etc etc. Free agency and equalisation measures have forced change. Premierships are there to be won any given year now for sides who can make the top 8. We've been rebuilding for a [censored] eternity and I will be physically ill if I watch Carlton rise from the dust and overtake us next year due to being more aggressive, bold and ruthless as a club. I'm excited by next year without a doubt, but there's air of conservatism still associated with our club that makes me extremely uncomfortable. Goodwin talks ruthlessness non-stop and it's time to be ruthless in all areas as a club. We should be cutting Carlton's lunch by getting in Martin's ear and picking him up in the pre-season draft. As Goodwin says, "the game owes you nothing". Make it happen MFC.

I'll quietly leave the room...

It always baffled me that we weren't going hard for him. This is a perfect opportunity to snipe him without giving anything up other than money. Get Steven May in his ear.

I don't get the fixed view that some hold regarding Harley. When was the last time he made a mistake? Injury aside. A long time ago. People change. Harley has a small family. His mistakes are in the past. Injury is the only concern, but I'd jump at signing him on a one year deal to see if he could get his body right. The Richmonds and Collingwoods of this world seem to have little issue giving players a second and third chance. (Cousins, Kraks). And even though some don't work out, they remain strong as clubs and continue to perform. Meanwhile, we have supporters who would rather the feel good Billy Stretches and ANB's of this world. Great characters, professional trainers. Yadayada. But will do very little for us in the way of influencing a game. Every team is trying to get a leg up on the other. It's about time we tried something against the grain.

We're in the best position possible going into last day of trade period. Two extremely valuable picks are on the table if the right offer pops up. We'll be sitting back, cross-legged with cigar in mouth knowing that if nothing comes up, we go to the draft with two top 10 picks a year after making a prelim. Added to that is the fact that we've addressed a problem area with the additions of Langdon and to a lesser extent Tomlinson. No longer will we have to play inside midfielders on a wing. And this is all without mentioning the fact that we have a pre-season with Burgess coming up. One of the most highly respected fitness coaches around. I'm putting a cheeky $20 on us for top 4 next year. Dees.

Yeh, it matters a lot actually. OP is a much more severe injury to a tear or strain. Even so, a recurrent groin tear still requires a great deal of carefully planned conditioning and management.

Ps, @Demonland I'd be careful about using the term "interrupted pre-season" around here..

Was our arguably our most important player in last year's two finals wins. That was after how many weeks out? He is a proven performer with a pre-season under his belt. It's all he needs. Is a limited player, but his one wood at its best is almost unmatched.

@Chook in Perth Myyyy mannnnnnnnnn Andddddd go.

I agree with you, I'm not saying we don't have a solid list. I just dislike how much attention is paid to champion data these days on the whole.

Yeh until injury, poor form or otherwise strikes. Remember that time our list was rated number one by champion data going into this year? I remember. We finished second last. Much of champion data as well as any isolated statistical analysis is about as useful as an accordion player on a deer hunt.

Disagree strongly on many points. To state that Sam Frost is better than May is quite baffling.

This should be a reminder to those supporters who claimed "it's onlyyyy one bad year". Every year is an opportunity missed not only to challenge for a flag, but to attract quality, to keep players happy, coaches happy, supporters on board and finance in order. It's a snowball effect and if we have indeed missed out on him it's a big loss.

Actually, if you go back and look at the posts you'll realise many of us were calling it as we saw it. "interrupted pre-seasons". You were the one refuting that their preparation was interrupted and now that coaches have come out to confirm what we thought, you're unhappy.

I understand all of that, but let's see what we end up with if he does in fact leave. It's not as if we'll lose him for nothing.

It's about what he'd net us. Oscar is worth nothing on the trade table. And there's some worth there with Frost after the year he's had. Who knows, maybe we've got an eye on another mature key defender in the rookie or pre-season draft. Along with Oscar, Petty and Joel Smith I think we'll be okay. I similarly worry about Lever's body though.

Also, Joel Smith could very easily play the same role as Frost. Whilst also raw, he is younger and already has a better footy IQ imo. Similar athletic ability and I'd prefer him playing defence than forward.

Frawley had an AA year with us. Hasn't got anywhere near that level for Hawthorn. It's just a furphy. Aside from Burgoyne and O'Meara who are completely different cases due to their injuries, the Hawks target players to play to their system rather than 'turn them into' stars. Honestly if Frost ends up leaving, you can bet your bottom dollar that Clarkson will give him even less of a license to run up the field being a headless chook. I think we've got to look at what we'll net as a result of losing Frost because the possibilities are many. If we're lucky enough to receive a second-round pick, it could help us with the Langdon trade or package up with pick 3 to move up the order or many other possibilities. We're in a good spot and his value is at an all time high this year. He's really no big loss. None of the top end teams have a completely polarising player in their back half who consistently makes the same skill and decision making errors over and over.

Funnily enough, it's his best attribute. Great kick for a key defender. All other attributes are less than desirable.

Seriously, if we land this guy and he can get through a full pre-season along with Lever, May and our full midfield brigade, we will be a very different look going into next year. Can't help but feel he's going stay at the Pies though.

@Mach5 Update? Seems to be at odds with your intel ?

Happy to. It's a stupid list.

Usually on your side, but remind me of what Hawthorn managed to get out of Frawley, Fitzy, Cheney, Cam Bruce once at their club? Not a whole lot.