Gator

It would only be depressing if you'd just woken from a 10 year coma.

I agree. But in his 7th year, a year in which he decided to drop himself, it's fair to say he's been an underwhelming top 10 pick in the extreme.That said, I see what everyone else sees and his last 8 weeks have been beyond what I expected. I have a firm grasp of reality when it comes to Watts and can only hope he's now set a bench mark for the rest of his career. I see him in the roaming Goddard "trouble shooting" role.

He's been a diabolical dud. To rate him "incredibly highly" is utterly nonsensical. Thankfully, it looks like he'll reach his potential, which is so far from his draft selection it's not funny. Nonetheless, we're grateful for small mercies. He's a mistake. But he's a mistake that's becoming a valuable entity as we move forward.

Sure - Hall, Brown, Neitz, Richardson and even the hard working Nick Riewoldt at only 1.5. But there's not many more modern ones as goals are hardly kicked these days. As I said, it's a non-issue. The only issue is the terrible state of the game. Going to watch the average footy match these days is the pits.

Non-issue. How can you tackle blokes when you've either spread eagled them or taken a contested mark ? FFS, we have the lowest inside 50 count in the AFL (up until the weekend). Hogan has far less opportunity to tackle than ANY other opposition forward. As we improve as a side his tackle numbers will automatically rise. It's a non-issue.

He will never "drop off" and you should wash your mouth out with soap for even suggesting it.

Carey, Locket, Dunstall, Lloyd, Kernahan, Tredrea, Ablett Snr and others all averaged somewhere between .7 and 1.4 tackles per game. Tackles is a non issue for a power forward like Hogan. It should never be a topic for conversation.

I don't rate Frost as a forward, but reckon he'll be a gun defender.

This is the 5th time in 15 games Hogan has received votes from both coaches, i.e. 1 in 3. Amazing for a key forward in his first season of AFL footy. My guess for the current B&F top 3 is 1. Vince 2. Hogan 3. Jones Although the 2 games Hogan has missed might cost him second place.

Tyson is down 10-12% on his key stats from last year and that makes a significant difference in output. If a team was down by that much from one year to the next it would be a significant drop off. When he should be getting better, he's gone backwards. There has to be a reason. It's either mental or physical. I'm still excited by his future years and it's not uncommon for young players to experience this type of issue. Just ask Andrew Gaff, who had a very poor third year.

You're funny.

We don't win that game without Hogan. His strength, competitiveness and structural benefits are huge. Not to mention 16 possessions, 9 marks and 3 goals as the dominant key forward on the ground. 6. Vince 5. Gawn 4. Hogan 3. Watts 2. Dunn 1. Viney

I only tip Melbourne if I think we'll win and I tipped them this week. We had 9 100+ game players to their 6. Going into the game we both had 9>50 game players. They ended up with 10 due to Goldsack being a late withdrawal. We had an average age of 24.2 to their 23.2. And we had an average games played of 85 to their 73. They were younger and less experienced. We should have won. Our problem is belief as much as anything else.

It's all about intensity. I'll cop losses, but won't cop lack of effort. We're breaking some hoodoos and for that I'm glad. I expected a minimum of 8 wins this year and we're still on track. I reckon Roos is on par for what I expected and I don't believe my expectations were unrealistic. I don't reckon Roos has been "great" from an onfield point of view, but he may well have been exceptional from a club point of view. I'm not in a position to judge.

Along with Judd, O'Meara is the best young mid I've seen, so it's silly to compare O'Meara as a talent to virtually any young player, imo. I've seen plenty of Prestia and can't agree with Jack 7's assessment. Prestia does have good pace, is exceedingly powerful and is something I haven't seen at Melbourne since Brian Wilson or Greg Wells, he's a ball magnet. Unlike many players of his height he's also a very long kick. I agree that he's not a "line breaker" at AFL level, but who cares ? In the traits I want for Prestia that's near the bottom of the list. And it's not as if he can't run lines, because he can to a degree and it was considered a strength at junior level. I know nothing of his injury. If reports are true and it's career threatening we won't trade for him. I do remember however, Andrew McLeod's knee was supposedly "bone on bone" for about the last 7 years of his amazing career. EDIT: Prestia averaged over 27 possessions in both his 4th and 5th years. He's averaged over 27 possessions since he played his 50th game. He's now played 81. As a comparison, Nathan Jones took 9 seasons to average over 27 and he's only done it once. Prestia's third season is statistically better than Jones' second best.

Thanks. Next you'll be telling me Walter Palmer isn't popular.

Thanks. Yes, that's jogged a memory.

He rejected us. The Hawks don't "outbid" anyone. Like Geelong, you go there for success, not coin. But, EVEN if they did offer more, it's obvious who was more attractive and why he chose the Hawks.

I really like Prestia as a player. He's a better talent than Nathan Jones. However, along with Jones, Viney, and potentially Stretch and ANB it represents a very short midfield, especially when the grain has been going the other way. That said, he's an exceptional player and I've always held the view, if you're good enough you're tall enough.

I think most supporters agree that Roos was the right man to galvanise the club at the time. But some, like Scoop, sheet home nearly all of the blame to the players. Perhaps they think he's got the most out of the group and that they're performing at the level they should be - at prerequisite levels. I can't agree. I believe they're performing below expectations and that the game-plan is either too complicated, or deficient. In the preseason there was evidence they were going to use the corridor more and focus on faster ball movement. Clearly, this was short lived. Either the players can't follow instruction or the message isn't getting through. Ultimately, this falls at the feet of the coach. The boys from Champion Data show that Melbourne start their attacks from near the last line of defence. Simon Goodwin acknowledged this a few weeks ago in a prematch interview and stated we wanted to start attacks from near the middle of the ground. It's not happening. I acknowledge we have talent deficiencies, who doesn't, but I also see a club like the Dogs, who sacked their coach and CEO, had their captain walk out, and lost their best mid with a knee. Are their talent levels so superior to ours, or do they have an easier to understand and implement game-plan ? The answer seems obvious to me. Roos may not want to coach like Beveridge, I get that, but I also remember him in year 1 stating that by round 6 supporters should start seeing what type of footy we were going to play. Yeah, I see it and it's unedifying. Roos would rightly accept the accolades if we were winning. Conversely, it's a nonsense to absolve him of criticism when nearly 2 years in we're regularly seeing performances like the weekend.

The only reason (and I mean only) I took the journey from the Mornington Peninsula on a bleak, cold and wet Sunday afternoon, at the ridiculous television inspired time of 3.20 pm, was to watch no.1 in action. But the game-plan and the dills who implement it cruelled him. We had 77 more handballs than the opposition. We defend when we should attack, we attack when we should defend and we handball when we should kick. Put simply, our players have no idea what to do with the ball when they get it. Nearly two years in isn't that Roos' fault ? They also pick and choose from quarter to quarter how intense they'll be. I appreciate we're a stoppage team, which requires numbers around the footy, but why does Roos allow us to lose all of our forward structure when the ball is in the opposition's forward half ? Hogan, the poor ba®stard, spends as much time on a half-back flank as he does in the forward-line. I appreciate that's the "modern" way, but can't we try and occasionally hold the semblance of a forward-line ? We start our attacks from so far back. And when he is one out, or wants the ball kicked in long and quickly it invariably never happens. Or it happens too late as the bail out kick and he's already swamped. The Dogs may not have our defensive attributes, but at least they kick goals, play with some flair and take the game on. I'm sure their defensive elements will improve as they continue to hone their game-plan. They're also winning.

I can't agree. Nearly 2 years in and his players don't know what to do when they get the ball. There's no cohesive game-plan to move the ball forward effectively. We also pick and choose with our intensity, while the Saints play in a far more constant fashion. Poor bloody Hogan. He must hate playing for this mob. Whenever the ball is in the opposition's forward 50 he gets sucked up the ground to a half back flank. This is instructional as we're a stoppage team that relies upon numbers around the ball. But we over do it. Other teams hold some semblance of a forward structure, but we lose ours completely, so naturally when there's a turnover the players hold up play, while we desperately run back. We handball when we should kick and we take the wrong option regularly. We play with no freedom or flair. Teams can have a rock solid defence, but still know when to pull the trigger. In a short time Beveridge has his team playing attacking footy. Their defensive structures may need work, but they're at least exciting their fans and winning games of footy. Richardson at the Saints also has a side far more drilled than ours. I'm over Roos and can't wait for Goodwin to take over.

Hogan has received votes in the AFL Coaches Association award for the 4th time, which is almost a third of the games he's played. Extraordinary for a first year key forward. And each time he's received votes from the opposition coach, not just his own. Against Brisbane it was the first time he's received the full 10 votes to be judged BOG.

I read the negative comments last week and didn't comment, because he's not above scrutiny and everyone is entitled to their view. However, some of the reactions towards one of the best key forwards to enter the game in the past 20 years was astonishing. Apparently, some of you didn't like his "attitude". FMD. That's what makes him the player he is and will be. Of all the things to moan about some chose Hogan. It beggars belief.