Rhino Richards

I doubt Yze will figure much in the AFL. Last year on the list, fringe player with a strong tendency to do all the lazy unaccountable things that would [censored] DB right off. He was dropped for a reason after round 1. And in the Sandy team that won by 95 points all the opposition pressure would be off and Yze would be in his element in the VFL. Its a false dawn. I guess when you win by that much th3 Coach cant help but be glowing but geez that is an overtly positive glowing report on all of them. It should be rivetting reading if Sandy loses!

It all depends on what you want to rate. Good coaches look for and value the things that bring about team success (as opposed to individual success) not just the person who is on the end of the line to kick the goals on other back of others hard work. Its why Steve Johnson is such a better and more damaging player because he focusses on the team successes not the selfish individual ones. There is more to forward line play than just kicking goals set up by others. Its why many posters have misrated some of Yze's downhill skiing performances for years. Too much focus on the flashy MOTY and GOTY and who kicked the goals as opposed to what actually brings about the goals and in some cases what that player's direct opponent did to impact the game. Keep reading Monday's newspaper and working out who played the best from there.

Whelan physically cant get on the track consistently and has diminished as a footballer. I dont whether I would give him another contract. Robbo has had a bad knee for the past two seasons and is struggling with the demands of the modern game. Regardless Robbo has another year on his contract and he is 30 this year in November.

I guess if you did make the assessment of Fevola that you would recruit him how long a contract would you offer for someone whose wires can cross so quickly and everything goes pear shaped. I would be surprised that you could get him for less than 3 years. And at the end of the 2nd year he will again threat to go to the PSD if you dont give him what he wants. We might land him for nothing and lose him the same way in 2 to 3 years time.

And could cost MFC heaps in reputation and media. A real challenge as he has lots of upside but heaps of downside on and off the field. JBrown will not leave the Lions. He wants $6mil over 5 years. He will get somewhere south of that. I hate 5 year contracts. You cant plan the future you have no certainly of delivery and it too often ends in financial tears.

....without much substance mate. Given MFC's plight its a bleedin obvious we would look seriously at anyone who could play to that standard coming through the PSD.

That rumour went around about Embley last year. BTW, whether its said once or 100 times, a rumour is speculation in absence of fact.

The most disturbing aspect of the financial mess MFC is in and has been in for some time that some supporters cannot countenance the prospect or the possibility that the Club at some time in the next 5 to 10 years will struggle to survive in its current form. Unless there is a major change in ownership, identity, structure or demographic support for MFC its going to wither on the vine in an expanded competition. MFC and NMFC will be the first victim of the 10 team squeeze in Victoria. If MFC is going to survive it will have to consider something radical to the status quo to do so. And its way more than just a change or changes in the MFC Board. Thats a small part of it. Those that hail fighting changes to the death may well be fighting for the death of MFC. I hope its a good fight because it might be the last. I know quite a few ex Fitzroy supporters who were involved in the old FFC and have either maintained the rage or have moved on to support Brisbane. I have often asked myself what if it were MFC and I am not sure what my position would be 1,2,5 or 10 years after the event.

Why dont we include Flemington and Caulfield racecourse stands and throw in a few suburban hedges as well for all its relevance and effectiveness? A stupid and misguided comment at best.

Agree Swampy.

Like trading TJ. Implementing a new game plan. Empowering the players to have a determination in who should be the leaders. Condemning players to Sandy who will not commit to the basics of accountable football eg Yze, Beamer and Newton. Yeah you are right. Squibbed it big time.

I think Junior and Whelan are gone at year end. Robbo has another year on his contract. White may play on. Moloney is as much bait as a 7 day old lamb chop in the sun. Who would trade for his groins and game? CJ and Wheatley either cant crack it in or are borderline in the bottom AFL side. There is no trade value there. We will be lucky to get one trade away at year end and it may involve a player who some might put in your best 5 or 6. Weetra, Bode and CJ will be delisted. I got 9 to 10 draft spots before you look at trades. Unless he does something spectacular I dont see Valenti being elevated.

I think Junior and Whelan are gone at year end. Robbo has another year on his contract. Moloney is as much bait as 7 day old lamb chop in the sun. Who would trade for his groins and game? CJ and Wheatley either cant crack or are borderline in the bottom AFL side. There is no trade value there. We will be lucky to get one trade away and it may involve a player who some might put in your best 5 or 6. Weetra, Bode and CJ will be delisted. I got 10 draft spots before you look at trades. Unless he does something spectacular I dont see Valenti being elevated.

I think the selections they made this year will get them all to seriously question what makes a leader and I am sure that names like Yze and Robbo wont get a sniff and collectively the group will identify and vote for more appropriate leadership role models. In the end they must support the leader and are accountable for the decisions they make. I dont see the connection with the West Indies who with collective arrogance and a heavy dose of hubris at the end of successful careers ran themselves out of the competition. The lack of game infrstructure in WI did not help. I dont get a sense of arrogance and hubris with most of this group. Its part of their learning process.

I wish we had done it. Bloody stupid that we gave them a pick and lost one ourselves. Knowing Neitz he would want the best for the Club and would not put a shallow win above the teams interest. I would be really [censored] off if we did win it. I would really question if this Club does want to succeed. And by this outcome and from LY R22 game I would be thinking not.

Rubbish. He was not injured. He is fit to play so he gets picked on merit.

I dont think McLean's action bar him from captaincy in the same way Warne's woeful off field antics did. I countered Jaded's misguided assertion about leadership.' I think JMac struggles to have the slightest impact on field and does not possess leadership qualities and that in my mind rules him out of the captaincy particularly when he wont he here next year. At least with Miller, he does offer a measure of leadership (recognised by the players) and has a better chance of being around next year. Its marginal I know. I like the idea of the leadership and as Nasher pointed out I think the players that chose the group will choose differently next time. The issue is the calibre of the leadership contestants not the concept. I dont think it is a decision at all for the sponsors or the supporters and I dont think they are the appropriate stakeholder to do the selection. Its a decision for the footy dept and the players. As I said the most decisive issue is the lack of success.

No. I think the opposite. I think it will be harder to assemble teams of the quality of Essendon in 2000, Brisbane 2001-2003 and Geelong 2007-08 and it will be harder to get a cluster of star or better than average players in the one team unless you have a wonderful F/S gene pool! I think it may open up the gap between the successful, financial and well run Clubs and the opposite type of Club. The PP system no longer provides a good 2 to 3 year base for the list of a crap club like it used to. 10 Victorian Clubs is a recipe for disaster and the gap that is there now will only increase.

He may as well as inherited them. You may well question why some of the players are actually on the list.

No. Not when the season is shot and the focus is on the future. Some parts of the list are old, underperforming, no leadership and are not AFL standard. Not much value then experience when it gives you nothing on the ground. You must be part of the miserable lot!

Nope Brezhnev, Andropov and Chernenko were prior to Gorbachev. Aging, ineffectual and useless Really what is best 22 at MFC compared to the rest of the AFL? If we had a truly top 8 midfield, Jmac just would not get a gig! While Neitz is out, I would share it around Bruce, McLean, Miller and Green. I dont know what the problem is about divisive. Divisive to who? The players? Surely not. They chose the leadership group. Who else would it be too that matters? Given the year so far what could be more divisive than a lack of success?

No and No. FFS we have already given him 3 testimonial years. Just drive him around the G in an open top car from the last home game. That's about as close as I want him there. Any game Yze plays from now on takes away from a younger player who offers us more the future. Hell, MFC were kind enough to offer him a 3 year pension plan in 2005 so he should be happy with that

Partially. No 5 was his own worst enemy and he was finished as a player well before he actually retired. Lamb and Ferguson were not any good period.

The retirements were a consequence that many of the players had reached the end of their useful life as AFL footballers. In the case of many of them we held onto deadwood far too long. Many of the footballers listed were gone before Bailey and number of games gives no indication of capability going forward. Only TJ and Brown were best 22 from the group departed last year. TJ was the only effective choice of DB to act. From this year possibly all those players listed for 2008 should go as well. Bailey has no choice but to clean out and retire a number of players who have been kept far too long. His rebuild is being forced by circumsntances that preceded his arrival. Jumbo is correct about not offering up players when they had value. We took the brave and right decision on Woewodin in 2002 and we let it slip after that. On the previous site I had argued that we should have done the following: 2004 Traded Yze and TJ. Let Bizzell go the PSD. 2005 Traded White, Robbo 2006 Not traded for Pickett. Its come back to haunt us big time with the biggest deadwood clearance this side of a Bunnings warehouse. 57 weeks ago WM most of the players listed were also at the end of the career. ND held on for one more roll of the dice for a flag and it went awfully pear shaped but the signs were there earlier and he put reliance in front runners like Yze that withered as time went on. Unless a marque player is available trading will only top up your existing list to complement what is already there. AFL trading is normally full of NQR who are despatched by their clubs for a good reason. And as a reliable resource for talent it is grossly overrated.

Would you like me cut your dinner into smaller pieces as well? B)