Rhino Richards

Correct Scoop. I think we are tracking well for bottom spot but our access to draft pick order is in the hands of other clubs. If we were by some stroke of genius to beat either Carlton or Richmond this year and that Club does have less than 5 wins there should be some heads kicked at MFC. And for all the hype and hoopla on this thread, how could you possibly make hard and firm comments about who MFC or any other Club will take in the draft? Hot air over pure speculation.

I find references to a Coaches "love children" about as knowledgeable as calling AFL players "soft". Its another way of saying "I dont understand why some players are picked over others but I will try and label it as coach's blind bias". Bob nailed it in his summary.

It was a run away win and MFC based players should have played well. Some did and some did not. No one is a sceaming promotion on this week's effort. My thoughts: Valenti - Easily BOG. Did tire in the last quarter and wonder how he will go on bigger grounds if lifted to the AFL. Buckley- Nice line breaking speed but disposal and ball handling could be better. In fact it crucifies his pace and running ability. His pace and Valentis ball skills would make him an AFL prospect. CJ- Did some nice things but just went. Cant see him in MFC colours in the future on todays performance. Yze- Like CJ -Nothing to excite about. Looks silky at this level. Lacks the desperation of a player wanting to return to the AFL. I think he knows his time is up. Bate - Looks underdone and flashed in and out of the game. On todays performance I can understand why they did not pick for the Brisbane. Holland- Kick 4 goals. Does he scream to be picked? Not really. Meesen- They say big men take time to mature. He is obviously at an early stage with questions about whether he will kick on. Maric - Looks a player and flashed in and out of the game. Needs consistency Spencer - 18,204 cm and worth persevering with. Bode - Did Ok. But....did OK. No threat for selection. Leave it at that. Martin- Was not really tested today but his disposal was challenging into the wind. Cheney - 18 - well balanced and will be better for the run. Definitely one to watch.

And they lost. For the record, Sandlilands has been outstanding this year but Freo have kept losing. WCE have Cox playing well but have only won one game. Hmmm....... <_< . Why is that?

I'd back that fully. For the record I have not seen anyone delist Whelan but have expected him to retire. However, I think Wheels contribution over the past 2 years has dulled against his best.

Its was Alwyn! Lets get the facts straight. Bad luck for the bloke! http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...4-19742,00.html

He was never voted in by the players in the first place because they rightly or wrongly did not view him as a leader.

Correct. If you can assume he is not fussy where he goes. Just a what if...what if WCE or Port Adel were to come last or 2nd last and lets say there is another AFL equal or better grade player going to the psd? Gouga, it wont work for Robert pushing his brother who is clearly not AFL standard to play together. The only time in the H&A games that could happen if both were playing for Sandy. That would be a bad outcome for MFC.

Sorry, I was playing to your common sense. My bad

Exactly Nasher. Its speculation in order to feed a crusading hobby horse. My view is simply that the picks may not have delivered us a star but would have delivered players who would have been better than the lowest player(s) on our list. Therefore their absence leaves our list worse off for not having them.

Your answer is in the post you quoted. When it comes to having to draw on players like Godfrey Reed and other cellar dwellers on the list frequently with injury then IMO the lack of even one of the players I mentioned is significant on playing performance.

I am not assuming anything but countering your view that we would not have drafted any good players. In a list of 40 players where we were denied access to the use of 2 talented players to develop or trade is a rough 5% of your list. In a game where the difference between winning and losing is often marginal then its significant over the period since the penalties were in place.

Cloke was not in a fit Templeton's league we did not do the DD on Templeton's fitness. I had heard that at the time as a rumour but my understanding is that we were never a real chance to get either St K player

Its simplistic to draw a line as to who we would have chosen to suit your point of view Here are some of the players that we could have had access to: 1999 : Glass, McPharlin 2000: Hunt, McPhee, N. Lonie, Williams (Haw), Jones (NM) and Johncock The lack of talent to develop or alternatively trade is the cost. I have no issue with taking Leigh Brown. Capable KPP when we have few. Hell if he was not going to cut the mustard we could have traded him for pick 13 in 2002 draft. Its the denial to the access and use of talent to further improvement the overall list.

I'd have no problem giving Neitz the privilege of getting a send off game as he has epitomised the values you espouse. I just dont see Yze in that same category. He might love the red and blue but he like some other players show it on their own terms and not the teams. He has been given an armchair ride at this Club without returning the favour and at best I'd be happy to drive him around the MCG for a lap of honour. I'd rather give games to oue future players rather than a player who for some years has cut corners on the delivery of his talent and has symbolised both the some of the strengths and many of the shortcomings of MFC football over the past 10 years.

Here are the past 15 years No 1 draft picks. TJ was no worse than Gardiner and better than Waterhouse and Headland. 1992 - Drew Banfield (West Coast) 1993 - Darren Gaspar (Sydney) 1994 - Jeff White (Fremantle) 1995 - Clive Waterhouse (Fremantle) 1996 - Michael Gardiner (West Coast) 1997 - Travis Johnstone (Melbourne) 1998 - Des Headland (Brisbane Lions) 1999 - Josh Fraser (Collingwood) 2000 - Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda) 2001 - Luke Hodge (Hawthorn) 2002 - Brendon Goddard (St Kilda) 2003 - Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs) 2004 - Brett Deledio (Richmond) 2005 - Marc Murphy (Carlton) 2006 - Bryce Gibbs (Carlton) 2007 - Matthew Kreuzer (Carlton) The problem is that we held onto TJ for too long with his mediocre output rather than trading him for more into better drafts. If we had made the call 4 years ago we would potentially have a cherry ripe 4yr experienced player. No offence to Grimes but TJ just blocked the development of other players while he plateaued at MFC. Brisbane are paying market for TJ. We are still paying the surplus. Woey was signed on a ridiculous back ended contract in 2000 which increased in $$$ each year as his performance decreased. A brave and correct decision was made to offload and invest in talent that would provide us with upside. Its a pity we stopped doing that with other players. And for correction we did not pay out recently departed CEO (and not Chairman).

Good post Nicho. CJ was a stand out in the pre season then......

Its definitely had an impact on the list and the absence access to talent from those years has had an influence in the decisions made subsequent to recruiting and list. There are of course other issues at hand that contribute to the list management position at MFC. And I dont think any one is denying that or playing the victim. But to deny or diminish the impact of one significant contributor in favour of others is just self serving.

Its amazing you heard that interview with Matthews. It gave a compelling insight to how and why the game has changed so much. But in the all crap you have gone on about game plan you missed the major messages from it and sought to misconstrue other points into a condemnation of what you clearly have no idea about. Amazing.

If Newton's mind worked like that then he is dimmer lightbulb than I thought.

Correct Nasher. From a financial point only elevate him when you are going to pick him.

Peter Moore won a Brownlow with the Demons didnt he?

The fact that you cant separate the individual contributions of Neitz and Yze in the team over the past couple of years and over their respective careers says enough. Throw yourself in that bucket too Ds4eva.

Its an interesting point. If Sandy wins by 100 points and Yze plays a blinder I still would not be convinced. I would put more value on games where Sandy is under the pump and there is pressure. And Yze does perform. The fact is he does not and has a track record for this. Further his limitations now at the AFL level really sway me from wasting a spot on a player who has shown an inability to play to the conditions required in todays football. As you rightly point out I just cant see the value of playing Yze at the risk of possible opportunities for Maric and others.

So long as you can read in the paper who kicked them and not understand them that's all that really matters. Franklin is a star no doubt and it what you need to have a good team but your conclusion that Franklin is the only reason why Hawthorn says more about your naive perception of the game. I have no doubt a few home truths on Yze would be very difficult for you to stomach.