Red and Blue realist

I agree, no idea why someone at the Blues keep thinking becoming the GWS seconds are a great idea. Could all come crashing down on them if it turns out SOS is a very ordinary recruiter and that a blind monkey would have got GWS into the same list position with the amount of concessions they got.

Think it was on Casey radio or one VFL game where they said JHK had been offered a 3 year deal from the Blues. Hasn't been a peep anywhere of that so I'd assume not, or would be a very late play if it did happen.

As far as I know we only need to make 3 changes to the senior list, so we've already got the 3 spots (Grimes, Terlich and MJones) and have brought in Lewis and Hib. So we could go to the draft and use only 1 pick. Not saying we will do that, I'd say Dawes and Newton will probably be delisted and we'll need to either upgrade a rookie or 2 or take 2 or 3 kids or look at the PSD if someone falls through that's worthwhile. Of course the trade period still has a day and a bit to play out, so who knows?

Yes but at this stage the only other option is Peders and I see him as insurance rather than a realistic best 22 player. Might take the Weid half the season to deserve the spot in the best, but I have no doubt he'll be there long term. Much like OMac this year, give them as much game time as possible because the aim is not just to get to finals - veterans like Dunn/Garlo/Dawes/Peders might get us an extra win - but the young guns will get us much closer to winning the whole thing.

FB: Frost - TMac - Jetta HB: Hibb - OMac - Hunt C: ??? - Tyson - ??? HF: CP5 - Hogan - Kent FF: Gartlett - Weid - Watts F: Gawn - Viney - Jones I think the above lines nearly pick themselves, then the 2 wing spots plus the interchange come from 6 of the following: Lewis, Stretch, Vince, Oliver, Brayshaw, Salem, Melksham, VDB, Harmes, Wagner or Bugg. Depending on who we are playing then Peders, Lumumba, BenKen could come into the thoughts. Then we've got Trenners, JHK, Garlo, ANB and Spencer who all need a big season if they are going to be around beyond 2017. Hulett is still developing so I wouldn't put him in that bracket and Mitch King is on the come back from injury, not sure if anyone else on the current list will be there after the trade period.

While his true value won't be measured in games played, he's played on average 22 games since 2005, incredibly durable hopefully that remains while imparting that experience he has. Great get for what is the equivalent of pick 61.

I agree their leg speed is not brilliant, it's their decision making which gives them speed. A handball to a player in space or a quick kick to an open player is much faster than given credit for. In reality only a small handful of guys on any team have blistering pace, we've got that with Hunt, but its the link up play which makes teams look quick or slow and I believe we'll seem much quicker this year with a bit more experience and players knowing each others games.

I don't think he's any quicker (leg speed) than Kent, Harmes, JHK or BenKen, plus from what I've seen he's no where near as quick (decision making) as Salem, Stretch or other mids such as Vince, Tyson, or Lewis who could be pushed to the outside at various times. I just can't see him offering anything to the club besides back up in case we get multiple injuries and even then he'll be a very long way down the pecking order. He's not new to the system so will command more $ than a draftee so I'd be happier if the club used a spot he could take on a kid.

I actually think the club half think we've got the "big fish" in house, that along with Hogan, guys like Trac, Oliver, Weid, Gus, Hunt etc. that one or more of them will become an elite of the comp. We're just a little impatient, but I suspect we'll fill in the gaps with role players (Lewis is the one out of the box but comes with experience), so we get to the point where the team has 2 or 3 elite, 5 - 8 A graders, then a heap of solid B graders.

Again as an outside mid he's behind a lot of guys, plus some of the small fwds I listed would move into that spot before he would as well. Don't get me wrong, he's not a terrible player and 12 months ago we could have considered him but right now we're stacked for guys who play a similar role he would and nearly all of them are in front of him.

He'd be behind Garlett, Kent, Kennedy and Harmes and probably on par with JHK. I think we're pretty right for players like him.

Of those only Melksham would play in a similar role, Kent and Garlett are small forwards, while Stretch is on the wings. From the team P-Man put up, which I think will be close to our best 22, I'd say Lewis comes in and there'll be a fit for the last spot between Melksham, Oliver, Brayshaw and Salem. potentially by the end of the year Vince might be in that group as well. Good problem to have really, all those guys are very good players and will only get better. My only fear is that we'll lose a decent player in the next trade period because there not getting enough opportunities.

If anyone wants to play around with how much points are worth in trade deals try this - https://www.draftguru.com.au/pick-value-calculator Basically shows that the Port deal must see them finish in the top 8 to win the trade, 9th and it's win-win and any lower and they lose. On the other hand it shows our trades with Gold Coast last year were around the same mark (trade that got us Oliver & Weid), and that the add on to that trade with GWS that got us higher in the draft order meant Bugg came to us around pick 53.

Could really destabilize a club, turfing legends out. Look what happened with us after Junior, the follow on effect to their younger players now without Mitchell and Lewis could be bad for them. Not to mention their old mates getting the stink about the new guys coming in at their expense.

I get the impression that the deal will happen, but the Hawks (in particular Graham Wright) are trying to turn the deal so it looks like Lewis has done the wrong thing by them. Doubt they'll be able to do that, but the Hawks are all about trying to save face on this before they'll allow the trade.

Going a bit far there, both on the players and winning like Trump!

It depends if we take the Hawks or the Dogs (early Cats) model, the Hawks did well with younger players then topped up heavily, whilst the Dogs developed their own (yes I know about Boyd). I think the mantra might have changed from needing to bring in an A grader to being happy to develop our own A grader and filling needs around that. Says to me that the coaching staff have lots of faith Hogan, Viney, Trac, Gus, Oliver, Macs etc. are going to be those A graders without needing to sell the farm to get one in.

Was played out of position when he managed a game in the seniors. He's an inside mid, but we tried him as a small forward, not a bad idea because we want players to be flexible but he'll only come into his own when he gets the chance to play where he is most natural. I'd like to think he'll be next in line if injury hit someone like Viney or Jones next year, but could be a long term asset, will just have to wait his turn.

Would hope we might be able to go to them without even using the 2nd round pick, will depend on how much they need to clear out of their cap and where they perceive we'll finish next year. Pickett would be my ideal target for this, but the same could be used for Barrett, WHE, Stewart, Steele or similar, although I'm sure they rate most of those guys much higher than what they'll accept in the end.

Your right I actually think Salem will get away with the perceived lack of speed because he's got really good footy smarts - similar to Mitchell of Hawthorn - in that he reads the play so well he'll put himself in the right spots so will seem to have more space than his speed allows. Back on topic, Kelly is one GWS won't part with, so it'd be great to get the school mates together but I can't see it unless we finish bottom 4 and he requests a trade next year.

Seems to blow up a bit, but with 50 games now under his belt hopefully another season will see him be able to expand on just being a HHF, I think he's got potential to be thrown close to the midfield, maybe not in and under but could provide some run and will remain a goal kicker in that role. The issue is he seems to only have 2 or 3 repeat runs in him then he goes quiet for a while. Would love him to average another 2 or 3 touches a game plus another tackle or 2, he's got some penetration on his kicks plus is a bigger body so hurts those he gets a hold of.

Potentially Downie will get de-listed anyway, so we could pick him up without compromise and cheaper. Doesn't look like there's anyone close to a star being available at this position (Vickery seems the best mentioned so far), so ideally we don't pay much for them as they'll be more than likely back-up rather than a best 22 player. I'd say we'll be going a more mature bodied (23-27 year old) state player, or an injured player with scope from another club (like Vardy).

If we did any deal I imagine it'll be for a fringe player they might get rid of anyway, or potentially a player who has been on the outer for injury reasons and now sees themselves as back in the pack. Maybe someone like Jarrod Pickett, who was pick 4, but has been out all year with a foot injury (caveat emptor) but was rated very highly for his run and spread in his draft year. Not sure how we'd get him, maybe a swap of our 2017 first rounders (given GWS see themselves as top end contenders). Otherwise we have little or no currency to give up.

Thanks, thought he might have through some sort of injury loophole. Pity, cause he was in pretty good form those last few rounds.

Doubt he'd be 10th in line to be the pinch hitter in the ruck, I don't think he's got much of a vertical leap at all. That said I wouldn't be surprised if is on the list next year if they try and refashion him back into a forward or at the least a permanent swing man (Pederson style), rather than a pure back-man like he's become over the last few years. Also in contract so no extension needed, he'll either stay, be traded or be paid out although I think we might have gone past those days.