Scoop Junior

I think we will try hard but it's human nature that when finals are mathematically impossible (which they could be closer to the end of the season) there is a little less motivation and that absolute desperation that a finals aspirant has may just drop off a little. I don't believe this is not trying hard - it's simply that physically you don't reach the same level when mentally you know there isn't as much at stake. I don't believe this is reflective of a poor mentality or a lack of hunger and I believe that all clubs experience this. I also don't believe it will have any effect on the 2020 season - just as Richmond's 113 point loss to Sydney in the last round of 2016 had no adverse effect on their 2017 premiership season. Just to avoid confusion, I'm not saying we should expect to see a lack of interest and intent over the next 8 weeks as that would be very disappointing. I'm just saying we may see some drop-offs late in games later in the season if we are absolutely no chance of making finals.

I'd be pretty happy if our worst performance sees us 2 points down with 1 minute remaining in the third quarter against a top 6 side interstate.

So I presume you don't regard finishing 5th after the H&A season (which would have been top 4 but for two losses to Geelong decided by a kick just before and after the siren) and making it through to a prelim as "contending".

Perhaps I'm misreading the alleged comments from McCartney highlighted in the opening post, but I would assume the comment "stop thinking about it" is more to do with over-thinking the situation (the need for a goal, the pressure of the game, the scores, the consequences of a miss, etc.) rather than thinking about technique. I agree with this notion that it's mostly a mental thing and it's difficult to replicate on the training track as there is always the knowledge that it just doesn't matter as much as a game. Set-shot goal kicking has an enormous mental element. Petracca is probably the best example of this. He has nailed a few set shot goals from around 50m this year and a number of difficult goals on the run, yet continually misses the 30m set shot. There might be a few technical elements but I reckon a lot of it is mental - clearly when expected to kick a goal from a relatively easy set-shot the worry of the consequences of missing sets in. As for the team, we've also generally kicked poorly in close games. We kicked 7.2 against GWS in the last quarter when the game was done as there was no pressure, whereas in the last quarter against the Crows it was 1.8 and the Pies 2.6 when the games were still very much alive. Is it just coincidence that in the 3 games we've had decided with a shot just before or after the siren since the start of last year, we've lost all 3? I think it's a pressure / expectation thing and McCartney is right - stop over-thinking and just enjoy the opportunities.

I think that is a factor, especially given the premiers of the previous season are usually benchmarked on game style. West Coast play a low risk kick-mark game style in their defensive exits and teams have taken bits of this approach in dealing with high forward pressure teams. The best example was how Collingwood chip-kicked its way to huge uncontested marks against Richmond in Round 2, negating Richmond's pressure game. But I also think that we have adjusted our defensive set up since Round 5, playing a less aggressive press and having more defensive coverage. This was a result of Geelong, Essendon and St Kilda just kicking repeat easy goals through uncontested possession chains which tore apart our defensive structure. Now whether the failure in our defensive structure was a result of players not executing correctly or not being fit enough to execute (due to the poor pre-season) or opposition working us out - who knows - but what it means is we now appear to not be sending as many players in to aggressively defend our forward 50. The price to pay of defending deeper and being more sound behind the ball appears to be a reduction in forward pressure, meaning we are scoring less of those chaos goals from pressure and repeat entries compared to last year. It will be interesting to see if further adjustments will be made now that our players are fitter and we have more of our better one-on-one defenders back in the team.

I just don't get the "disgraceful performance" posts. Maybe I've seen too many horrendous MFC performances over the years, but gee this was far, far, far from one of those. We started poorly but hung in there. Second quarter was fairly even. I thought we were then the better side in the second half but once again our delivery inside 50 and our kicking for goal destroyed any chance we had of winning the game. Aside from the first quarter, we did a lot right, again, like against the Eagles and Crows. Our skills were worse today than in those two games but with even a moderate improvement in our inside 50 work and finishing we would've been a chance in the last quarter. To me we aren't that far away - we've just got some really specific areas to improve to be back amongst the top 8 teams again. The biggest is obviously the forward line. What we really lack in there is that X-factor/magic/class. It's one-dimensional and no one looks capable of kicking a bag. The players who kicked 3 goals for Collingwood - Stephenson, de Goey and Hoskin-Elliott - are exactly what we lack, players who are explosive, can take a big mark, are dangerous in the air and on the ground, can get separation on their opponents and generally put away their chances. I just don't see our current forward line containing players who have a bag of tricks. This lack of potency was a major difference between the sides today. At the same time, though, there was (and has been all year) some horrendous service to them. A number of times Tommy and Weid led out and the ball was kicked well over their heads. We dominated the centre breaks but just wasted this advantage by either completely missing targets inside 50 or kicking it straight down the throat of Collingwood defenders. Even the best forwards would have struggled with that sort of delivery. So I think we're kidding ourselves if we think it's just delivery or just inside 50 personnel. It's both. But it's fixable and Goody is a smart operator and he knows very well what the problem is. I really like Goody's pressers. He's calm, he's rational, he has a good mix of short term and long term thinking. He knows what's going on. I think it's absolutely ridiculous for people to be potting Goodwin. We have kicked 48.67 in the last five weeks. We've generated enough chances to knock off the Eagles in Perth, the Crows in Darwin and arguably even the Pies today. Missing easy shots has nothing to do with the coach. We are doing a lot right and really haven't been far away from being 4-1 over the last 5 weeks.

I know many have been saying we need to practise our goal kicking, but I'm sure we do similar amounts to other teams. To me, it's a mental issue. We have shown an ability to kick straight at times, particularly when the pressure is off. But it has now happened on too many occasions in close games for me to think it's more a physical thing than a mental thing. Look at how Trac relaxes when he shoots from 50 - he is a thumping kick. Then watch him when he lines up from 25m out - you can see the fear and panic at potentially missing the easy one. Hunt kicks a great goal from 45 then misses from 20 out. Smith is a good kick for goal at Casey and kicks one in the second term. Then, in the last, with the heat on, he misses a very similar one from straight in front. Weideman, a beautiful kick, misses one he'd kick 9 out of 10 times when the heat was on at the end. TMac, a generally accurate set shot, misses two he'd normally kick against WCE. It goes on an on and on. I think we have a real fear of failure and it infects our goal kicking in these types of games - especially when the misses build up and so too the pressure. In an even competition goal kicking accuracy is a significant statistic and we need to sort this mental issue out as we head into next season. Look at the way the Eagles regularly snatch wins despite not playing well by nailing the key goals at the big moments - we are like their polar opposites.

It wasn't the players? Weideman, Hunt and Smith missed absolute sitters from close range directly in front. Wagner and Garlett dropped easy uncontested marks that would have led to shots for goal. Some of OMac's defensive efforts on Jenkins were laughable. This was a game a side with any semblance of composure and mental strength would have won by 6-8 goals.

I reckon it's 9 games in 2.5 years where we have clearly been the better team but have found a way to lose (10 if we include GC this year where we did everything to throw it away). In all the below games we have had more (or at worst) equal scoring shots, in some case significantly more scoring shots. That's almost 1 in 5 H&A games that we are throwing away with poor finishing. I thought we had fixed it after beating WCE late last year and then the finals, but this season it's back to how it was. For so long we waited to have a competitive side - now we've got a pretty good one but they keep on snatching losses in quite extraordinary fashion. 2019 GC 8.13 v 9.6 (won this one) WCE 9.15 v 13.7 Adel 12.16 v 14.6 2018 Geelong 13.16 v 14.13 Port 9.11 v 11.9 Geelong 14.14 v 16.4 Sydney 10.18 v 13.9 2017 Geelong 13.19 v 20.6 Fremantle 15.15 v 16.10 North 10.12 v 11.10

Agree that piece of play was pathetic. It reminded me of when a toddler grabs onto your leg but you're still able to walk while they hold on. How can a 6"5 footballer not reduce the effectiveness of the player's kick in those circumstances? All night Oscar executed the famous MFC Kent Kingsley Strategy to perfection.

That was actually harder to lose than win. But not for the experts in losing - we could write the text book on how to throw games away. How many games have we just completely thrown away in the last few years by our own doing? That was by far the worst of them - it was absolutely ridiculous to lose that game of footy. One of the biggest chokes I reckon I've seen

Really? Do we need reminding of the state of the football club just prior to Roos taking over? We had just gone through two failed rebuilds, had come off a season where we won 2 games with a percentage of 50%, were getting absolutely belted week in week out, had very little talent on the list, had been right down the bottom for 7 years (save for some flashes of good footy in 2010 and 2011), were considered a basket case on and off the field and even the most loyal fans were struggling to have any hope for the future. The culture was a mess, no one wanted to play for us, good players wanted to leave...it was an out-and-out shambles. Five years later we have improved every year and got within one game of a Grand Final last year with a young and talented list. If anyone was offered that during the 2013 pre-season they would have grabbed it before finishing the sentence. We may be struggling at the moment but surely it's fairer to look at the incremental improvement over 5 years from 2014-2018 than a 6-round sample size. I shudder to think where we would be as a club without the input of Roos, PJ and others from 2014 onwards. Would we even have a club to support? This thread is nit-picking at its finest. Of course there may have been the odd decision-making error along the way, but that happens at all clubs. Looking at it in its entirety, Roos did an absolutely sensational job of steering this club away from extinction and onto the path towards being a respected team in the competition.

People can say the there was no heart, no desire, not trying, etc. but I disagree. There was plenty of effort in the first half. The problem was the usual structural issues - we were absolutely slaughtered by a far better structured side forward and behind the ball. St Kilda absolutely schooled us in game style / structure. So despite dominating most of the game, we were only 3 points up midway through the second quarter. The combined effect of not being able to translate midfield dominance into scores and the leaking of easy goals down the other end absolutely drained the confidence and belief of the players. Then you get what you get in the third quarter. Time to make changes, especially behind the ball. The free players for the opposition inside 50 week-after-week is just disheartening and deflating for the supporters and obviously the players. Unfortunately our style of defence is very high risk, super aggressive and only works when you're absolutely on top of your inside game, your forward 50 ground balls and your forward pressure. Clearly the players aren't at the level of last year at the moment and therefore we're getting completely exposed by our aggressive defensive structures. Surely we need some structural changes to help us defend better and stay in games when we're not producing the levels required.

For the talent on the park that is an absolute embarrassment. A midfield with Gawn, Oliver, Brayshaw and Viney yet we are producing performances that many Melbourne teams of far less talent were able to better. For me it's the structures. We are getting absolutely schooled by a far less talented team in terms of structure behind the footy and structure ahead of the footy. We played some decent footy at times in the first half but I reckon the players' confidence and belief gets destroyed by the failure to convert midfield dominance into scores and then the subsequent leaking of easy goals to the opposition. That quarter looked like a side that had lost belief in its structure. I've rarely seen a side so confused behind the ball - the way we just blindly run off our man no matter what the situation is like under 9 stuff. Attention Melbourne players - there's no need to run off your man when the player coming at you has time and his head up because he will just loop it over the top to the man you have just freed up! Time to look at the structure, particularly defensively - it's not working

I've got a lot of faith in Goodwin. He's a smart operator and has shown before some innovative tactics and also an ability to adjust to get us out of a hole. It was also good to hear him specifically refer to the team defence and that we leak far too many goals, which in turn gives the opposition belief and confidence. That was the biggest issue last night. I disagree with some on here about the changes to the game making it an uncontested game. I still believe a game based on contested footy is the right way to go. The year is still young and as the rounds roll on it usually becomes more contested. And we know that finals footy has always been a contested style of footy. So I don't believe we need to fundamentally change our approach as being a contest-based side. What we do need to do though IMO is to make some slight tweaks, both in terms of structure and personnel, to be able to defend better when we're not dominating the contest and to get some more spread away from the contest. We've actually been fairly ordinary in the contest this year. Last night Essendon beat us in contested ball and clearances and they are far from an accomplished contest team. So of course our game plan will look a failure when we are not achieving the key fundamentals of the plan, which then fully exposes our weaknesses. Getting our forward 50 pressure and contested work back to something resembling last year will make a massive difference, but clearly we need to consider some more conservative set ups behind the ball.

I reckon it's a game-day pressure thing. He is probably clean and crisp at training but once opposition heat is applied in the cauldron atmosphere of a H&A game he seems to crumble. It's the only explanation I can think of because if that is simply a reflection of his level of ability (i.e. dropping sitters and fumbling ground balls) then he wouldn't even be a VFL standard footballer.

Our defensive problem is two-fold. One, we play a high press reliant on keeping the ball inside our forward half and forcing any opposition exits to be rushed. Hence we take aggressive defensive positions to chop off the rushed exit. But when you're not dominating the contest/clearances and not applying enough forward pressure, the opposition exit cleanly and then it's game over. Once they're out, our lack of leg speed means we aren't going to catch them and the high press and aggressive defensive positions means the opposition have loose men streaming inside their forward 50. With no pressure on the ball carrier it's just handball-chip kick all the way to an easy mark inside 50. The joke was this was happening in the first 5 minutes of the game! In the first quarter alone they constantly had loose options inside 50. The worst thing you can do when you play a low-on-confidence side is give them easy goals to get their adrenalin flowing. Guess what - we did just that in conceding 6 goals in the first quarter. The question is how can your structure be so easily dismantled by an ordinary side in the first quarter of a game? It's mind boggling. The problem was there for all to see last year. It happened enough times to be worrying. But our contest work and inside 50 pressure was so good that it masked the problem. So far this year we haven't reached anywhere near those levels in our contest work and inside 50 pressure work so the problem of our defensive structure rears its ugly head. I just find it astonishing that we've seemingly been happy to move into season 2019 without any tinkering to this area both in terms of structure and personnel (other than the recruitment of May). It's just unrealistic to expect to dominate the contest every single week. We needed to find a way of absorbing pressure when the opposition gets on top, when we lose the clearances and contested ball, when we can't retain the ball in our forward half. But we are so easy to transition and score against and not only is it giving the opposition confidence but it's deflating ours as well. The second problem with our defence is that when we are finally able to get a one-on-one or a legitimate contest, we have a combination of horrible one-on-one defenders and out-of-form defenders. 20 goals against a previously-struggling Essendon is putrid stuff. This after 20 goals last week in wet conditions. We will not go anywhere unless we can limit the scoreboard damage when the game is not on our terms.

Agree with this. If there is one thing we Melbourne supporters are exerts in, it's experiencing pathetic performances and enormous losses. This was not one of them. Yes, it was an 80-point loss on the scoreboard but it was far from an 80-point loss on the performance and balance of play. Make no mistake, we were nothing flash, but we weren't nearly 15-goal losers. A nice little statistic I look at after games is the expected score vs actual score (based on teams' usual goal-kicking accuracy probabilities). The expected score was a 44-point loss to Geelong. As usual against us, they could barely miss on their home turf, kicking snaps and goals from the boundary in the wet. We, as usual against Geelong down there, missed a number of easy chances. So ignoring any other factor, on just goal-kicking accuracy probability alone, the deficit would've been halved and would've IMO more accurately reflected the state of the game. That period in the third quarter summed up the game. We dominated the early parts and should've been back to within 2 goals - instead, we don't score, the Cats go bang, bang, bang from 3 entries and all of a sudden it's 7 goals the difference and game over. We crumbled too easily at the end but it's human nature to drop off when you put so much effort in for no reward and you see the game slipping away. Despite all this, we clearly have key issues to address at both ends of the ground. Structurally we were an absolute mess up forward - probably the best indication of this was the number of times we kicked it inside 50m and the next player to touch the ball was a Cats player (it seemed to happen all the time). The mids just hacking it in without looking certainly didn't help, but it almost looked like they were told just get it in at all costs given our desire to play a forward-half game. Problem was we showed absolutely no ability to lock it in there and Geelong are probably the best team at setting up a defensive structure to deal with hacked kicks forward. We currently look stodgy up forward, predictable and devoid of X-factor and flair. And defensively we are almost in as bad a shape as up forward. Geelong's forward line is hardly imposing, especially when their best forward Hawkins is nullified by the weather. But they scored 20 goals from 48 entries - a quite ridiculous statistic in the wet. Port the same. Richmond the same in JLT 1. Brisbane the same in JLT 2. Essendon have really struggled with their inside 50 efficiency so far this year so if we can't improve in that area next week we are in a fair bit of trouble.

I think this is a common early-round occurrence and is raised most years - in hot and sunny conditions on dry decks with teams at different levels of fitness, often the outside game dominates and the fitter, faster, harder-running sides do well. But I reckon in every season, once teams are on more of an equal-footing with regards to fitness, the cooler weather kicks in and teams are more match-hardened and with their skills/decision making refined, the better contested teams start to shine through. And there's absolutely no doubt that come finals time, it's contested footy that wins the day. Having said that, it doesn't mean we don't need to improve our outside game (particularly with regards to our defensive spread in transition). We were poor at times in this area last year and have been again so far this year. Clearly teams have identified this as our weakness. But I wouldn't be changing our primary game plan focus on contested footy and winning it inside as season after season has shown that this is a successful formula.

I'm not so concerned about the result - Round 1 can be overrated because of the focus on it and both Grand Final sides lost their Round 1 games last year. What was concerning was the way we lost, especially having a middle of the road interstate team run rings around us on our home deck (after the Lions did the same thing in JLT 2). Once again our defensive transition was found out - I know it was only JLT but in both those games and today we were so easy to counter attack against from half back. Chain upon chain of easy uncontested possessions. They have all been like the St Kilda game last year where Goody was furious with our defensive work ethic. After that game we seemed to fix it but it has been back on display in 2019 so far. What was the cause for this? Attitude or fitness? I almost would prefer it to be an attitude thing as that can be fixed up - but it looked more of a physical fitness thing and that's more concerning as it does take time for that to turn around. Our guys just looked like they were running in quick sand for most of the day. We looked terribly underdone (no doubt due to the number of post-season surgeries) and in an even competition with a modern game that relies on pressure you just won't beat many sides when you are giving away a significant difference in fitness levels. How long does it take to get up to speed after a difficult pre-season? Hopefully not too long! We broke even in contested ball and clearances so we were not disgraced in these areas, but we were far from the rabid contested side of last year. We clearly have the personnel so I'm not too concerned about this but it obviously needs to get better.

One of my favourite games - a narrow victory over the Blues at Optus Oval. James McDonald kicking that goal to bring us level which looked like it went through for a point. Garry Lyon laying a crunching tackle near the end. And a young blond ponytailed Nathan Brown making his debut. ND's first year and what a great year it was after a number of shocking seasons in the 90s.

Saty - which group has Fritsch been training with? Given he played initially as a forward last year, then went on to the wing, and then to half back, I'm interested in any indication as to where the coaching staff believe he will play this year.

He was instrumental in three key plays late in the third term that established our 32 point lead. First, he sprinted after Gunston who was running into an open goal. That little bit of pressure was enough for Gunston to look back just before kicking, which seemed to affect his easy shot. A goal there and the margin was 9. We then get a goal at the other end and at the next centre bounce, Worpel was about to walk out of the centre and deliver deep inside 50m but Viney dived in the air and caught him in a tackle, affecting the kick and preventing an inside 50 for Hawthorn. We then kick the next goal. Then, he wins the hard ball at half forward, dances through traffic and throw it onto his boot. Brayshaw marks and the lead is beyond 5 goals at 3/4 time. And I thought in the first half he was the one midfielder really keeping us in the game when Hawthorn were on top. He was absolutely phenomenal tonight.

More than 2 minutes left and only 11 points up...maybe I'm scarred from too many painful losses but even at this stage I was still thinking the Eagles could easily kick two and win by a point. But when Petracca hit up Melksham 15 metres out, with 1:30 to go, then it was party time!

Yeah I saw that at the ground - was absolutely pathetic. The bloke is a champion footballer and I've always liked watching him (except against us) as he's just so powerful and skilful. But recently I've lost a lot of respect for him as a sportsman. In recent games I've seen him repeatedly hold an opponent's arm after they apply a tackle on him to make it look like he is being held after getting rid of the ball. He milked the ruck free kick last night and then his dive over the boundary was another blatant act of staging. I suppose he has learnt the art of milking frees off his captain, who I noticed time and again whinging to the umpires about not receiving a free. And all Ablett has to do is throw his arms in the air and he gets an immediate free for holding. Then you have Chris Scott carrying on like a pork chop when one decision doesn't go his team's way, only to then act all sanctimonious the next day in his media interviews. I never minded Geelong in the past but recently I've begun to really dislike this mob.