nrc73

The situation (with Dawes & Clark) has been pretty fiercely debated on these forums. Lack of accountability is how we got to where we are (from previous boards down). "Nobody's fault" is no longer something I can swallow. It's well known that Dawes has always had a degenerative knee condition and although other's have suffered the same and still had a career, far more haven't so it was always a risky proposition. There's a reason other clubs passed up on him. That there's a decision on Clark today is a good thing. Clark deserves the personal support, but if it's time to move on and look forward, it's in everyone's best interests.

The Dawes and Clark deals have absolutely screwed MFC. If and when these guys ever get back, there'll be nothing but a shattered team left.

I think you're right. Not the worst - to stay in the team you need to have some sort of impact when rotated forward in absence of injured KPFs and from all accounts Toumpas has really struggled as a forward. (I think!) Roos mentioned during a conference that Toumpas was never going to win against Darren Glass. Not a big endorsement. Have to say the Eagles looked to be built like monsters compared to the Melbourne players. Clearly big differences in player physique or training standards.

If trying your heart out results in constantly finding yourself 5m behind your opponent, then I think the game's gone by you. This is not a health retreat but a ruthless game. That's just how it is and Roos indicated as much in the last post game press conference in saying that if you can't do the basics, you don't make the team. I think dropping Trengove would be a good thing - a signal to others that have gotten a little comfortable with their position in the team.

Phrase of the week. Think it might stick throughout the rest of the season too.

In the very least Fitzpatrick & Trengove need to go out this week. Watts will never play well against a bigger bodied team & got monstered by WCE, but would probably fare better against the less developed GWS, but given how poor he was I think Watts ought to be dropped too to make a statement.

Just watched the game in full. Yay. Conclusions? Out: Matt Jones, Trengove, Watts & Fitzpatrick I'm sorry but Trengove is no longer AFL standard. So slow, too small to out muscle any of his opponents and adds almost nothing to the team. His unsuitability to play for any AFL team is there for all the see and it didn't escape the attention of the Fox commentators. He's been a sacred cow and it's time to move him on. He must spend time at Casey. He is killing us. I don't care if you played well last week. If you play a really, really poor game, get bullied in the centre & make Under 8 type skill errors, you must be dropped. Looking at you, Watts. Having said that, at least Nathan Jones has another warrior beside him in Daniel Cross to keep him company. Nothing but admiration. Can't understand people getting so fired up about Pederson. Far from the worst and while not the most skillful, contested time & again the back line, which is more than you can say for most.

I still think we're in front of previous years, where the game plan was very suspect. This time the game plan isn't as suspect and it's the lack of skill / smarts / whatever that's plain to see. I don't think the game plan is overly complicated. The inability to execute something more robust is there for all to see. Agree with all Scoop said - reality has finally hit Roos and his reaction will be closely watched. Remember, it's not just Roos but a whole team of new coaches learning how fragile these players are. How much pressure you think there'll be on the forward line coaches over the coming weeks?

MFC supporters have to get over this 'but he's got so much capability/potential' thing. Move on. Start looking for someone else who can deliver, not who might deliver. We also need to be consistent with what other clubs do. Do stars at other clubs go on hiatus during the season? What are the precedents? When the personal circumstances are serious, are they still given a time frame in which they must come back to the club with a response/decision?

I criticised Trangove during the NAB series and a few people here backed him up, so I left it at that. All the concerns I had about him are still there. He might be a smart player, but like most here, I think he's far too small & slow and plods along the perimeter of a pack waiting for the ball to be fed out to him like too many others. It will be interesting during the season to see if Roos 'makes a statement' by dropping someone that been a bit of a sacred cow to Casey and I would definitely put Trengove in the sacred cow category. As undermanned & unskilled as the forward line looked, I'd have to say that the delivery was a far bigger problem. I'd love to see the stats of miskicks to leads in the forward line by player. I thought there was plenty of leading & space in the forward 50, but poor shepherding & running in numbers at CHF. I re-watched the second quarter and was astounded to see several Melbourne players plodding along on the far side of the square, seemingly without any idea about the exact position they needed to run to individually.

I respect what you're saying, particularly with Jones getting wrapped up time & again. I get the feeling he was trying to wear both hats (in&under PLUS outside mid) at the same time. That he can do both is to be admired, but go back a few years when Maloney and few others were around, it was Nate Jones' outside speed and delivery to the forward line that I reckon was his best quality. You're right - they got Viney as that inside guy, but he was first year / had too little assistance last year, as opposed to Wines at Port. Maybe when Viney plays regularly with the new midfield this will all just have been a navel gazing exercise .

We'll find out very soon if Toumpas has what it takes for two way gut running. Also agree that taking Wines would have given us another option with being able to choose another KPP and given what's happening with the forward line (over the last few years) & possibly losing Frawley, that extra pick could be something we wished we had. For what we gave up for the new midfield (very little), I think they were incredibly lucky / smart. Not convinced on Watts & Salem as outside mids based on what I've seen of their pace, even if they are up there in terms of being able to read the play exceptionally well. But I'm happy to take that back if someone has time trials / running performance that proves otherwise.

Are you sure about this? Source?

That's the part I'm thinking over and yes the 'we needed class' was a common catch cry at the time. Your example of Gysberts is a good one - clearly a clearance player that possibly suffered from the lower training standards at MFC and couldn't cut it at another mid range club. As most would acknowledge, there's more to picking the right draftees, isn't there? I'd go for the inside & under person first, because there's no use getting players of 'class' that can deliver to the forward line if they never get the ball fed to them, but that's just my own opinion.

You've touched on an important point - why should we care about what a body of recruiters think? It's all about what Melbourne need, not the overall rating of recruiters with no association to Melbourne. I'd like to check out he stats of how many in&under / inside clearances Melbourne were winning in the year or 2 before the Toumpas/Wines recruitment. I suspect we were always massively dependent on Maloney for clearances. Regardless of Maloney's attitude,, that should have raised a red flag. Anyone know where to find stats on centre clearances by team, by year? My gut tells me we were in trouble years ago, not just last year.You could say that this is why MFC tried so hard to hold onto Scully, but really .. the mere fact MFC were throwing so much money on the table should also have indicated how short of personnel we were for in&under / inside clearances. Going for Toumpas over Wines never made sense to me. You don't get a good player and say "I'm sure we'll find something for him". That's the sort of thing we've done with Watts, not to the benefit of his career and ultimately we all want players to reach their potential, right? Of course Roosey and the current team has addressed this and I'm not looking for a witch hunt, but I can't help help but wonder what the various processes have been over the years.

Really constructive comments there Akum. I'll keep those in mind when I get the chance to have another look at the replay.

Yep I take what you're saying on board - maybe he's not a "wow" moments player.Someone like Hodge can pick up 20 odd possession in a game, but with half a dozen that really stick out. Good to get the hands on the footy and a few ppl have quoted how many touches he got, but I'm hoping for a bit more than a single stat. i.e. - link handball/kick as we chip our way out of the back line VS. clearances from a stoppage - outcome of possession in a 2v1 type situation VS posession in a 1v2 type situation - disposal effectiveness, etc. This is where Vince, Cross & Tyson are adding value in different degrees. Maybe this type of info on the NAB games is out there somewhere. It's pretty clear that the new game plan leaves us far less exposed when there's a clanger, but in the cut & thrust of the real season, we'll be paying a much bigger price for mistakes.

Watched the game a few times and still don't understand why people are getting excited about Trengove again. I wouldn't consider myself a knocker - I've been really looking for the outstanding on ground qualities for some time. I wish I had more time to do my own summary of every time he was near the ball, but watching the NAB game again, I saw a dropped mark, running past a pack when the ball was very much still being contested, saw him get his hand on the ball in a contested situation only for it to get cleared by Richmond 5 seconds later. I know he kicked a goal, got the odd clearance, but a number of his early possessions were won from strategically won free kicks rather than playing in front and taking off to attack, (as I noticed Grimes did a few times during the game and looked great). I suspect there's a significant gap between Trengove and a host of other players' influence on the game. Know he was injured last year, but by all accounts he's had a full pre-season. Happy for someone to convince me otherwise by providing examples (quoting quarter & time of the Melb v Rich NAB game) of where he had a really significant impact. Is he wearing a few more scars than others from the last 2-3 years that he needs to dispose of to become a really good player again? Not trying to bag the guy, just trying to figure out where he's really at.

Some have mentioned that today was a 'light' session. Can't help but think .. wouldn't it be much closer to match simulation to have the forward line guys go through 300m sprints / a few shots at goal / 300m sprints / few shots at goal / etc. ..? Has anyone noticed if this has already been implemented in training? Always easier to kick for goal when heart rate is low / relaxed.

They're the "Good 'Ole Boys".

Would have liked to have been down there with water guns filled with ice cold water for the boys today..

Haha good one

After reading some of the later comments, I kind of regret initiating this post. I knew it'd stir a few opinions, but didn't want to initiate aggression between members Enough guys.

Sacked Melbourne coach Mark Neeld offered role at Carey Grammar

One of the most boring interviews seen on FC. Totally scripted responses and absolutely no ownership of any mistakes. Unlike many on here, I do not wish MN well for his future footy endeavours, as befits someone that had to be disciplined about his manner with players (how was this not reported!) Only good part was Gary Lyon admitting he's not that popular with Dee supporters.