10 hours ago, Kev said:

It is not about being too stuffed physically. It is the program.

Of course it is. The greatest enemy of in-game skill execution is fatigue.

12 hours ago, dpositive said:

And is it ever too cold to practice kicking a goal?????

I mean.. it's a Winter Game ffs

The poor diddums

12 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

CARRYST! You’re a BROKEN BLOODY RECORD, aintchya PICKET?!?!?! FAAAARK you really don’t hate repeating yourself DO YOU?!!!!!!

🤨

Bit Harsh Ghosty😗

10 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Of course it is. The greatest enemy of in-game skill execution is fatigue.

I thought you meant that goal kicking practice would exhaust them for gameday. "No point practising skills (or goal kicking) if come gameday you're too stuffed to execute them."

Now I get your point.

A kicking program could have them running hard and then settling into routine of a kick at goal, and repeating the efforts.

Why are we missing goals in the early part of game if fatigue is the problem?

A confident, repeatable kicking routine helps when fatigued.

Yesterday the seconds (all AFL listed) did some goal kicking, all in one line, over the mannequin, 35 out, slight angles, taking turns. I was right behind the goals. The result, not much better than our gameday effort, disappointing.

Two of them stayed out when the session ended, with Williams instructing, Brown and Billings, they were having trouble, they finished without really solving the problem. They could have stayed out there till they got it right, or at least got it better.

Don't let any of them leave the Paddock until a basic standard or personal standard has been reached.

Something has to change.

Aditt: Just my observations, (please don't shoot the messenger), and my interpretation may differ from others.

Edited June 4, 2025Jun 4 by Kev

When did the expression "flush run" join the lexicon? It seems to have become all the rage on Demonland over the last few weeks. It's not a term I'd previously heard of until about 6 weeks ago.

49 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I mean.. it's a Winter Game ffs

The poor diddums

My statement about being too cold for them, was "tongue in cheek", and a bit churlish. Probably left quickly because it was a late finish for them (nearly 4pm), and perhaps they had other evening things to do.

Given the goal misses in Alice, my expectations weren't met.

5 minutes ago, Kev said:

My statement about being too cold for them, was "tongue in cheek", and a bit churlish. Probably left quickly because it was a late finish for them (nearly 4pm), and perhaps they had other evening things to do.

Given the goal misses in Alice, my expectations weren't met.

My comments were straight up.

Still... I played burb footy. We trained invariably under lights and in the cold. It either rained or it didn't. Hated it, but it did condition you. Hell some grounds hardly had grass in areas by mid winter. Goalsquares were akin to a sty .

There's no excuse for poor kicking at this level.

As to the decision making of some as to what kind of kick under particular conditions and orientation to goal... just beggars belief. Borders on lairising imo.

My expectations of this team are seldom met.

Appreciate your efforts Mr Kev . Cheers

10 hours ago, Kev said:

That was my assumption (choice to do the goal kicking, groundball gathers, or leave), since most left the Paddock after the whistle got blown to end the session.

They actually don’t get a choice, they’re told who goes where, when and what they have to do next. It does look unstructured to us, but it’s actually not.

The only reason I’m bringing this up is because I see people replying/reacting to your post with anger at the thought of the players opting to go inside because it’s too cold. That didn’t happen. That would never happen.

As far as I know - from what I’ve been told - the only time choice comes into the equation is at the captain’s runs where Max chooses what’s to be done and by whom.

Also, I have a mate who regularly attends training at Casey and she said they practice goal-kicking every session and for a significant length of time.

57 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

When did the expression "flush run" join the lexicon? It seems to have become all the rage on Demonland over the last few weeks. It's not a term I'd previously heard of until about 6 weeks ago.

It’s known as a recovery run but just this year the coaches and physios etc. have been calling it a flush run.

The problems with goal kicking seem to be mental than skill based. You've got to fix that thing between the ears and that takes more than than drills and practice.

50 minutes ago, Kev said:

My statement about being too cold for them, was "tongue in cheek", and a bit churlish. Probably left quickly because it was a late finish for them (nearly 4pm), and perhaps they had other evening things to do.

Given the goal misses in Alice, my expectations weren't met.

Unfortunately folks thought you were being serious about it being too cold for the players and now there’s comments about how soft they are.

2 minutes ago, Flowergirl said:

The problems with goal kicking seem to be mental than skill based. You've got to fix that thing between the ears and that takes more than than drills and practice.

I agree with this, except it’s not one or even a handful of players, it’s the whole team, which is baffling.

Edited June 4, 2025Jun 4 by Ghostwriter

2 minutes ago, Flowergirl said:

The problems with goal kicking seem to be mental than skill based. You've got to fix that thing between the ears and that takes more than than drills and practice.

Believe it or not that is as much of the why you practice as the physical.

Is to train your mind as well as the method.

As I said. Technique and Mindfullness. One becomes the other. Kinda Zen.

Wax on...Wax off

1 minute ago, Ghostwriter said:

I agree with this, except its not one or even a handful of players, it’s the whole team, which is baffling.

I think not having a proper key forward puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team to deliver. Once one teammate misses, the pressure to kick on between the sticks increases. It is the worst in key moments of matches - take the carlton semi in 2023 and the last quarter on Sunday.

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Believe it or not that is as much of the why you practice as the physical.

Is to train your mind as well as the method.

As I said. Technique and Mindfullness. One becomes the other. Kinda Zen.

Wax on...Wax off

I don't doubt that we need to work on both. I just don't think just doing drills at every captain's run is going to cut it.

"They actually don’t get a choice, they’re told who goes where, when and what they have to do next. It does look unstructured to us, but it’s actually not." @Ghostwriter

Bit sceptical about that.

I've heard them say that, "they have another few minutes" before having to head back to AAMI.

My guess, is they can if they want to, practice. They would give a general instruction, such as be back at AAMI by this time, not you can stay and you go.

Cannot be Tracc and a few other regulars, who they instruct to be the last ones out there kicking for goals, or for Clarry to help pick up the gear.

A few, including Max who rarely does the after session (when the double whistle blows) optional practice. They wouldn't advise them to do that.

I could be wrong, but that would be over micro-managing them.

Edited June 4, 2025Jun 4 by Kev

1 minute ago, Flowergirl said:

I think not having a proper key forward puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team to deliver. Once one teammate misses, the pressure to kick on between the sticks increases. It is the worst in key moments of matches - take the carlton semi in 2023 and the last quarter on Sunday.

You're very close to something.

I'd extend your thinking by suggesting its because there's no clear, defined artfulness in our forward structure and craft which leaves far to much to effectively chaos theory in approach to scoring.

It's as unregimented as our skills.

Our forward game is NOT built upon skill it's built upon pressure. And my oh my does our scoring exhibit the effects of that.

4 minutes ago, Flowergirl said:

I don't doubt that we need to work on both. I just don't think just doing drills at every captain's run is going to cut it.

You won't do all things at all times.

You might need to do some things a lot of times.

It really oughtn't be a Lotto everytime a Demon kicks for goal. 🤷

1 minute ago, Kev said:

Bit sceptical about that.

I've heard them say that, "they have another few minutes" before having to head back to AAMI.

My guess, is they can if they want to, practice. They would give a general instruction, such as be back at AAMI by this time, not you can stay and you go.

Cannot be Tracc and a few other regulars, who they instruct to be the last ones out there kicking for goals, or for Clarry to help pick up the gear.

A few, including Max who rarely does the after session (when the double whistle blows) optional practice. They wouldn't advise them to do that.

I could be wrong, but that would be over micro-managing them.

All good, Kev. I’m only repeating what I’ve been told by coaches and physios and the doc, and by the players who sometimes aren’t sure what’s next in their personal schedule until they’re told just prior to getting back to AAMI.

But I do think we’re looking way too deeply into this. The flush and captain’s runs account for 40-60 minutes per week, that’s a small percentage of time spent training. There’s myriad other forms of training they undertake for many, many hours per week. And we all know the real stuff happens behind locked gates at Casey. They also sometimes train somewhere in Port Melbourne. Idk in what capacity, I just know they do.

As for how it looks to fans… I don’t think appeasing spectators is high on the agenda, nor should it be IN MY OPINION.

21 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

They practice goal-kicking every session and for a significant length of time.

I think it is the program.

Time spent, does not equate to a system that gets results.

Most of the time it appears chaotic out there. Only a few working seriously, "fun and games", miracle shots, players challenging each other, distracting and rushed, flying under the radar, no obvious accountability to misses.

We have a problem with a basic and primary skill, highly correlated to being able to win games. We have a pattern that shows up regularly gameday.

I reckon, something about our program has to change.

1 minute ago, Kev said:

I think it is the program.

Time spent, does not equate to a system that gets results.

Most of the time it appears chaotic out there. Only a few working seriously, "fun and games", miracle shots, players challenging each other, distracting and rushed, flying under the radar, no obvious accountability to misses.

We have a problem with a basic and primary skill, highly correlated to being able to win games. We have a pattern that shows up regularly gameday.

I reckon, something about our program has to change.

I agree it’s the program. What I don’t agree with is expecting to see anything of substance at the S&Gs runs at Gosch’s. That’s not the purpose of those runs.

If what we see at Gosch’s for 10 mins in terms of goal kicking practice was all they were doing of course we’d have every right to question that and even be furious about it. But that’s not what these runs are about. This is how it’s been explained to me and I believe it.

21 minutes ago, Flowergirl said:

I don't doubt that we need to work on both. I just don't think just doing drills at every captain's run is going to cut it.

Take any and every opportunity to improve in an area where we are not at a reasonable standard.

I'd keep them on the track until they focus and get close to a repeatable skill, anytime they cross that white line at all trainings.

What would an extra 15 minutes (unless it becomes an all-nighter 😀) in their schedule make anyway?

2 minutes ago, Kev said:

What would an extra 15 minutes (unless it becomes an all-nighter 😀) in their schedule make anyway?

… and we’d stay for the entire time, wouldn’t we Kev? 😅

Kev, you know I love you so we might just have to agree to disagree on this one. 👍🏽

Edited June 4, 2025Jun 4 by Ghostwriter

2 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

What I don’t agree with is expecting to see anything of substance at the S&Gs runs at Gosch’s. That’s not the purpose of those runs.

I believe that is one of our problems, the two runs a week they don't have to be focused.

There are some things that need structure, feedback and discipline (kicking). I want as close to perfection or at least everytime being switched on when practising, especially the day before the game, and working on the process after reviewing the previous game.

Bing181 goes at me because I feel that way about these giggle runs.

Edited June 4, 2025Jun 4 by Kev

15 minutes ago, Kev said:

I think it is the program.

Time spent, does not equate to a system that gets results.

Most of the time it appears chaotic out there. Only a few working seriously, "fun and games", miracle shots, players challenging each other, distracting and rushed, flying under the radar, no obvious accountability to misses.

We have a problem with a basic and primary skill, highly correlated to being able to win games. We have a pattern that shows up regularly gameday.

I reckon, something about our program has to change.

This also has been my observation at Casey I have rarely seen any designated goal kicking drills other than what you have mentioned!